We Don't Need Any Handouts

[JustOneWay]

And apparently you don't live what you preach.

If - as you say - a person cannot live on $10 per hour, why is that all you're paying your employee?


I think what you should admit, at this point, is that you just stepped in a giant pile of it!

It might also be worth pointing out that some people's work isn't worth anywhere near $10.00 per hour.

There is a lot of truth in this statement, too bad the one who wrote it doesn't actually believe it.

 

[JustOneWay]

YOU are the one claiming $10 is not a living wage, but then turn around and admit that you're paying an employee $10 per hour.

Please point out where I said that making $10 is not a living wage if you can.

I will be expecting an apology and an admission that you are wrong.

 

[praying]

And there's part of the issue.

I'm not saying this applies to you personally. But let's face it, lots of people are crying and moaning about not "living" because they don't have a $35,000 SUV sitting in the garage of a $350,000 house out in the suburbs. And those are people who will NEVER be "living" because even if they had the aforementioned things, it would be enough. They'd want a $50,000 Duramax Diesel Truck, alongside their new $40,000 SUV in the triple-care garage (because we need room to park our boat) of their $650,000 home.

PJ really you have to stop going from one extreme to the other. There is a lot ground between 10 an hour and owning a 350,000 home.


Living is being able to go the movies once in a while or go out to eat or do any number of other things that aren't extravagant but make live more enjoyable.

Here's another newsflash: Both of my sons are living in the same house - along with 4 other guys. It's a 4-bedroom house, and the group of guys is renting it for $1500 per month. I think you can figure out that they're each paying less than $300 per month to rent the house - and that is in suburban Minneapolis, which is about as high-priced place to live as you'll find outside of NYC & LA.

Are they in college? Who wants to live with 6 people? Is that what you are advocating for a family of four?

For those who keep crying, "It can't be done!!!!" I'll continue to ask why there are people all over the country doing the EXACT things you're saying CANNOT be done!

No one is saying it can't be done, were are saying it can't be done easily and ther is a lot a lot of doing without.

I just bought a very nice house (3-bedroom split level) for $40,000. I bought it as an investment property. We close on the house in mid-May.

It's filthy, full of crap from the previous owner, needs every room cleaned, primed & painted, and some exterior work done. But these are all things that ANYBODY who has an ounce of ambition could do!

I know for a fact that, if I choose to do so, I can clean & fix this house and, when the market turns around, sell it for $120,000.

And what's your point? Are yo making 10 bucks an hour?

So you're question, "Where does one find a home for $65,000?" is irrelevant. It can be done. People are doing it all the time. Where, in YOUR city, can you find a home for $65,000? I have no idea, because I have no idea where you live. But I'll guarantee you I could find dozens of homes for that price.

No my question was not irrelevant and I might add it was a genuine question. You can not find a 65,000 house in all areas of the country. You aren't finding one in my town. But even still I wasn't asking to say you can't find one I was genuinely curious where one could find one.

 

[JustOneWay]

Is it NOT rather a double standard to say a person cannot live on $10 per hour, when you are an employer paying an employee $10 per hour?

There is no double standard, because I never claimed that $10 an hour was not a livable wage. Actually I posted that I know of somebody who does live on $10 an hour.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

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[Stinker]

Ok. How can one exist on $10.00 per hr. with no financial help from anyone? What would they have to do?

 

[praying]

I'm sorry, but all of these, "It can't be done" arguments are simply not adding up.

No one is saying it can't be done, were are saying it can't be done easily and ther is a lot a lot of doing without.

You stand corrected since I never said it could not be done.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

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[ParsonJefferson]

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[joebudda]

<staff edit>

With all fairness the "employee" entered the agreement with the employer on their own. They made their own decision where to work and the wage and benefits by accepting the job.

They choose to live in the location they live. I can't see a reason why they can't get another roommate and get a better place if they desire.

And what is stopping them from getting together with their neighbors and making where they live even more "livable"? Like banning together and form some neighborhood watch of some kind?

 

[flicka]

Ok. How can one exist on $10.00 per hr. with no financial help from anyone? What would they have to do?

For starters, if they lived where I live they would have to move. Far away. Or live in a group setting, not own a car (no $ for insurance or gas anyway), not have to depend on public transportation (where I live that isn't cheap either), hopefully work in the food industry so you can get free meals, hopefully have medical/dental insurance paid for by your employee (usually employees have to pay at least part of it however), tv/internet/phone service would be difficult, owning your home impossible, so hopefully you can rent a room where utilities are paid because there would be no $ for that either. Group settings with roommates pooling their resources would be the way to go.

Then, of course, you have to be very very lucky and not be laid off, stay healthy, and not have unexpected expenses beyone the basic food/shelter/clothing.

And even then, most people will rely on freinds and family to help them out.

 

[JustOneWay]

I'm going to go do what far too many defeatists say absolutely cannot be done.

What? You are going out to live on $10 an hour?

 

[Gremlins]

With all fairness the "employee" entered the agreement with the employer on their own. They made their own decision where to work and the wage and benefits by accepting the job.

You must just say these things to provoke a response. No one could honestly mean them. Do you think homeless people 100 years ago indentured themselves because they had other options? Do you think your average Chinese peasant has much realistic choice in whether they work long hours in inhumane conditions for a pittance? Given the choice between death and a chance, however small it may be, of not dying, people will always go for the latter. That's why Victorian and modern Far Eastern employers had/have their employees over a barrel.

They choose to live in the location they live. I can't see a reason why they can't get another roommate and get a better place if they desire.

Because their current roommate can't find another place? Because they can't afford to lose even a week's rent? There's plenty of reasons.

And what is stopping them from getting together with their neighbors and making where they live even more "livable"? Like banning together and form some neighborhood watch of some kind?

Probably, and this is just a guess, because most of them are working every hour God sends just to keep a roof over their heads? There's a reason why neighbourhood watches tend to exist more in middle class areas, and it's not because the poor are lazier.

 

[praying]

I am not the one being extreme. YOU are the one who is claiming that while you can "survive" on $10 per hour, you cannot "live" on it.


All of which can be done by somebody who is working full-time, making $10 per hour - provided you don't have to be extravagant to live.

You are not making 10/hr and going out to dinner and the movies

when the good parsons fictitious $10/hr homeowner starts paying for the kids that are going to drive down the taxes they pay, where will the income come from to supply the children with clothes, food, school supplies, etc.?
perhaps with his four homes, he is a bit out of touch with the guy working at walmart who can't afford his health insurance which is NOT supplied, or maybe he thinks providing insurance for a family is a luxury that the average worker does not deserve. if you are bringing home $400/week, and $500 goes to rent, $150 for car payment, $60 for car insurance, $200 for food, $200 for health insurance, $25 co-pays, $100 for gas, $30 for electric, $15 for water, $30 for telephone. do any of these seem outrageous? they seem next to impossible to me, but let's give our man the benefit of the doubt. he's a great shopper, never goes out, never needs new clothes, has no entertainment of any kind in his life, not tv, not newspapers, not movies, not music, nothing. never goes out, has no girlfriend, no computer costs. to take home his $400/week he is already working 50 hours to get the overtime to rise to this level. so he has $290 to save up his downpayment for the house, which when he gets it he will incur the additional expenses of taxes on the home, insurance on the home (he was living without renters insurance before because he couldn't afford to protect his belongings, but the mortgage people will force him to do it), pmi insurance until he has 20% equity in the home, and the cost of any and all repairs and upkeep to the home that had been the responsibility of the landlord when he was renting.
this is ridiculous.


this is a cut and paste. anyone want to respond?

I see you skipped this post so I will just repost it.

Nope, my sons are not in college. But neither are they married. And why, pray tell, would you condemn 5 guys living in a 4-bedroom home as some sort of less-than-acceptable conditions?

I am not condemning it. I know I don't, and I am sure many others do not want to live in a fraternity or sorority situation. What your saying is if you are willing (which is what everyone else is saying) to settle for anything in terms of living situation and conditions then yes you can survive off of 10 bucks and hour.

I am pointing out YET ANOTHER FACT - and that is that there are people everywhere who are doing EXACTLY what y'all are claiming cannot be done!

We know that also the US has a large poor population.

"Doing without" what? Food, shelter & clothing?

Exactly, that is survival, not living. and please don't go off on your tangent about luxury cars and houses as an example of living that everyone expects.

My point - to be exact - was to prove you WRONG, when you were sarcastically asking where a house could be bought for $65,000.

I was not asking sarcastically. Really a chill pill is in order.

I have no idea where you live, so I don't know about the availability of $65,000 homes in your city. But I'll bet my bottom dollar that they're there. Are they in an area where you want to live? Maybe not. But if you buy right, fix up your home & resell it, you can gain equity and move into progressively nicer homes. That is EXACTLY what my wife & I have done. And if WE can do it, ANYBODY can do it!

There are none trust me, I live in a suburb of NYC.

 

[flicka]

There are none trust me, I live in a suburb of NYC.

Not in the Bay Area either. Where do you get the $$ to "fix up" the dump of a house you manage to buy (which you can't anyway because nobody will give you a mortgage)?

I think alot of people are mentally "stuck" in a time and place where THEY managed to do something. It's like my parents who refuse to go to the movies because they don't believe it should cost more than $3.50 to get in.

 

[joebudda]

You must just say these things to provoke a response. No one could honestly mean them. Do you think homeless people 100 years ago indentured themselves because they had other options? Do you think your average Chinese peasant has much realistic choice in whether they work long hours in inhumane conditions for a pittance? Given the choice between death and a chance, however small it may be, of not dying, people will always go for the latter. That's why Victorian and modern Far Eastern employers had/have their employees over a barrel.

Nice Strawman you made.

Because their current roommate can't find another place? Because they can't afford to lose even a week's rent? There's plenty of reasons.

There is this thing we call the "pennysaver" where I live and it is full of people looking for roommates and rooms to rent in all types of neighborhoods.

Probably, and this is just a guess, because most of them are working every hour God sends just to keep a roof over their heads? There's a reason why neighbourhood watches tend to exist more in middle class areas, and it's not because the poor are lazier.

I don't know their hours. But if they were working your much more then a typical 40 hour work week as you imply here. At $10 an hour would be very livable at even a 50 or 60 hour work week.

Maybe we should stop forcing them to pay taxes? This would give them much more money to "live" on.

 

[reverend B]

<staff edit>

of course you did. frequently you do. as a businessman, you pay an employee commensurate with what the market demand suggests you should pay. as far as you know, justoneway is very generous and paying 10/hour where 7/hour would fill the position. you don't know, do you? you are flaming the man, and your rudeness is constant and infantile, and there are not only verses but chapters of scripture that would tell you not to treat your fellow Christians this way. workers comp. would not help his employee if he were hurt off the job, so suggesting that justoneway is breaking the law is also a flame based on no information whatsoever. you put me on ignore when you understood that your fractured arguments were easily dispatched by me. i have seen you do it to others. you have no courage to debate those that will challenge you, but prefer to bully those who you think can't. the truth is that most people on this thread have made you look silly, small and mean spirited. it happens to you alot. there should be some mechanism where the moderators step in on their own when a poster becomes as consistently abusive as you do.
where's the love?

 

[reverend B]

Not in the Bay Area either. Where do you get the $$ to "fix up" the dump of a house you manage to buy (which you can't anyway because nobody will give you a mortgage)?

I think alot of people are mentally "stuck" in a time and place where THEY managed to do something. It's like my parents who refuse to go to the movies because they don't believe it should cost more than $3.50 to get in.

this is very true. the fact that you "got by" on 10/hr in 1983 doesn't have any relevance to the discussion we are having today. that 10/hr would be like 25/hr today, so just stay on the sidelines. you just plain don't get it!

 

[ParsonJefferson]

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[ParsonJefferson]

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