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We Don't Need Any Handouts

Verv

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Let's put it simply.

Leftists talk about equality in terms of wealth redistribution: apparently man is not equal with another if he doesn't receive a portion of his money. Forget the fact that you made poor choices like dropping out of high school or having kids before being economically prepared... You deserve someone else's money.

In my opinion: if you decided dropping out of school was a good idea and if you were then shocked that your employment options were limited, you probably shouldn't be getting a boost up from me just so you can then squander that opportunity again.

And how could you be so inconsiderate to your kids, your own kids, that you do not even prepare for them coming into this world? And now you want our money? I will grudgingly hand over money to any kid that needs a future but frankly, I do not want you getting a schilling from me.

Let's put it simply: I know working class kids who graduated high school and are making decent livings. By decent I mean 'enough money to have a car, an apartment, entertainment, etc.' They are even WHITE and do not get special opportunities for college or employment... How come they can do it but some of you can't?

It doesn't make sense that I could leave the Army today and go and get a job for $10 an hour with almost no training and just my postiive attitude and a high school degree. I know because I know people who have done it.

How come you can't?

I do care about equality...

The equality that I care about is the right to be viewed as an equal before the law and to have the same rights I do.

What about this crazy idea: People rise and fall by their own actions.

The government gives you school; the government gives health care to the most underprivileged; the government even gives no interest loans in certain circumstances. The government lets you speak your mind, lets you vote, lets you assemble, lets you have privacy and guns and your own property... What more does a man need?

I also do not care about the average working person anymore than I care about the average rich person or poor person or anything.

Sometimes people forget that we cannot all be millionaires. They also forget that not all of us want to be millionaires.

I have chosen not to be a doctor or a lawyer or some intrepid businessman, just like most of us here. We all have the option of working hard for our dreams but... Do we have a right to have our dreams handed to us on a platter?

I've always wanted to be some inspiring novelist or artist or rather just some guy that intellectuals can "Ooh!" and "Aww!" at. But I sort of realized a long time ago: Novels do not write themselves nor does brilliance shoot out of your fingertips when you pick up a brush.

I do not think it is going to happen, either, if the government suddenly throws money at you.

Happiness is a simple thing -- it is amazing how your big dreams become so small after you find some good friends, an OK job, a really good Beer and some good music... Everythign just seems so important in the face of God's gifts that the notion of being 'rich' seems irrelevant.

I'll spend my evenings and weekends relaxing, thank you very much, I have no desire to climb a corporate ladder or spend 7 years in college and 3 years in residencies.

Happiness is finding a job that isn't miserable and a few beers on a Tuesday night in front of your TV or a raucous post on Christian Forums...

If you were expecting more out of life you should probably just look at yourself and not the government for the answer.

And if you expected more than McDonalds when you dropped out of high school I doubt any amount of money will save you from the stupid path you have chosen.

Poor people in America have TVs and cars. Heck, middle class people in Korea sometimes do not even have cars -- we live like Kings and then complain. There are people who spend 6 days a week working 12 hour days so they can afford a modest apartment and $2 bottles of soju on Saturday night... But it is too much for some Americans to work for $10 an hour 12 hours a day, five days a week.

I don't think I have ever worked a 9 to 5 job. The Army is more of a "5 to 5" job. But whatever. It's simple stuff and you get money.

The Government should not babysit us and hand us everything that we want lest we become lazy and keep empowering the government to seize our property and redistribute it. The last thign we need is a government who thinks they know what is best for a country made up of people of every race, every religion, every lifestyle. France's 500+ cheese do not have anything on us.

One thing really separates a lot of Republicans from Democrats and that is Faith;;; both Faith in God, but more importantly: Faith in Man and in Themselves.

We go to Church and have jobs and we know that we do not need a lot more... So why should the government give it to us?

It is ironic that often times the working class and rural areas vote for Republicans but it really is quite simple... The guys who have jobs do not need your government handouts, so we do not vote for them

Sorry Obama, Sorry Ted Kennedy, sorry John Stewart -- we don't need you to have better lives... In fact, we'd be better off without you telling us we need you.

You are not heroes.

We are more heroes than you. We don't depend on convincing people they need us. We are not convincing people they are worthless without us.

You're selling us broken dreams -- we already have our own dreams without you. We don't need your hope and change because we have our own. You're not heroes. You're not great. You're trying to turn us into parasites as you are the used car salesmen of our wills trying to sell us a handout at the price of our dignity and our vote.

We work and get paid. You convince us that isn't good enough. And then you get the people who do not work (Hollywood) to try to convince us we need you even more. That's pretty ridciulous.

We don't need you. We can do it ourselves. Enough said.
 

Douger

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Here here, I like your post, and I agree with though you lost me with the part about 500 French Cheese. ;)

I'd like to add to that, that I think it's wrong that once ambitious men get into power that can hijack the country's wealth to finance foreign adventures.
If these guys want to boss around other countries that have no desire or possibilities of harming America then they should foot the bill themselves and not expect me to finance their wars through taxes and inflation.
 
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joebudda

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I don't have a problem helping out someone because much of my money goes to helping out others.

But I should have the choice who I want to help out with my money. It is theft to have my money taken from me without my consent with threats of punishment, limiting my ability to invest in what I could be investing more in where I think my money would be better spent.

Taking from me both in money and choice isn't freedom. It is immoral and wrong.
 
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Stinker

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It is blatently obvious that the OPster has no life experience in the workforce. Thinks $10.00 an hour is a wage one can exist on! No, a person cannot exist on this wage. These days, this is the allowance of a High Schooler. Someone that lives with their parents and has virtually no expenses.
 
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joebudda

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It is blatently obvious that the OPster has no life experience in the workforce. Thinks $10.00 an hour is a wage one can exist on! No, a person cannot exist on this wage. These days, this is the allowance of a High Schooler. Someone that lives with their parents and has virtually no expenses.

This is completely irrelevant to his point. Which I think is an excellent one.
 
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Voegelin

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I do care about equality...

The equality that I care about is the right to be viewed as an equal before the law and to have the same rights I do.

What about this crazy idea: People rise and fall by their own actions.


I also do not care about the average working person anymore than I care about the average rich person or poor person . . .
.

Great post! Brings to mind Leviticus 19:15
 
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reverend B

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the fallacy of the op is that people are asking for their "dreams" to be given to them on a platter. what is hoped for by many of us is that the least of us be cared about, and not just on an individual scale but on a corporate scale. we have the resources to make sure that people have certain necessities without handing out dreams on platters. i have never heard anyone advocating that nirvana should be a birthright to the american citizen, which is what the op suggests is being demanded by those who feel that people making mistakes, or being born into horribly difficult circumstances, be granted. this is a hyperbolic argument that is a strawman, because there is no one out here that would argue against it.

if you think that the op was the greatest post you have ever read, you are fighting a battle without an enemy. if you want to discuss whether the wealthy have a greater right to the available health care in this country than the poor do, then let's talk. that would indicate that wealthy people have more value than the poor, as there are other ways to distribute that resource that does not discriminate against those that are more challenged economically. but that is not the premise of the op. that premise is that there is a group fighting to have peoples dreams available to them on demand. let me save you some time and thread space. no one is fighting for that, and we all agree that is not something we should pursue.
does that help?
 
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Douger

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Thinks $10.00 an hour is a wage one can exist on! No, a person cannot exist on this wage. These days, this is the allowance of a High Schooler. Someone that lives with their parents and has virtually no expenses.
Errr...that's a lot of money you're talking about. How can you say no one can exist on that wage?
 
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joebudda

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the fallacy of the op is that people are asking for their "dreams" to be given to them on a platter. what is hoped for by many of us is that the least of us be cared about, and not just on an individual scale but on a corporate scale. we have the resources to make sure that people have certain necessities without handing out dreams on platters. i have never heard anyone advocating that nirvana should be a birthright to the american citizen, which is what the op suggests is being demanded by those who feel that people making mistakes, or being born into horribly difficult circumstances, be granted. this is a hyperbolic argument that is a strawman, because there is no one out here that would argue against it.

if you think that the op was the greatest post you have ever read, you are fighting a battle without an enemy. if you want to discuss whether the wealthy have a greater right to the available health care in this country than the poor do, then let's talk. that would indicate that wealthy people have more value than the poor, as there are other ways to distribute that resource that does not discriminate against those that are more challenged economically. but that is not the premise of the op. that premise is that there is a group fighting to have peoples dreams available to them on demand. let me save you some time and thread space. no one is fighting for that, and we all agree that is not something we should pursue.
does that help?

The government is not there to pick people up when they fall down.

That is what we do as caring people. But it should be a voluntary choice not mandatory by taking from everyone.

Well over half of the average individuals income is taken from them without their consent through income, sales, and the corporate tax that is hidden in everything we buy. So if the average person wasn't robbed of over half of their labor we all would be better off and be more in a position to help out the people we believe need the most help.
 
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JoyJuice

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Hate to break it to you, but if you're working for $10.00 - and you're working full time (which would mean benefits are included) - you're making about $25,000 per year.

You CAN survive on $25,000 per year. But you can't drive a new 4x4 truck & live in a $350,000 home if that's what you earn.

Of course, some of us choose to drive older vehicles that are paid for, and choose to live in homes we can afford.
$10 (X) 2080hrs = $20,080.
After %15 tax = $15,028.

That $10 an hour job being both full time and paying benefits is probably an anonmaly.

On that salary minus the cost of living, unless one signed a subprime with CountryWide mortgage, no one is going to realistic meet the threshold for home ownership.

One can live on that, but people living under bridges live on something too.
 
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Verv

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...so many misnomers....so little time.

You have a libertarian symbol by your name and you are disagreeing with the post?

Where did I go wrong?

... Less government programs...
... Less wealth redistribution...
... Personal responsibility...
... Equality before the law...
... Not needing big government...

Sounds Libertarian as heck to me. If anything you should be saying, "Why do we even need to give health care to the poorest or even have public education?" Or has the Libertarian party been run over by people who want a different way of saying 'legalize gay marriage'?

Here here, I like your post, and I agree with though you lost me with the part about 500 French Cheese. ;)

I'd like to add to that, that I think it's wrong that once ambitious men get into power that can hijack the country's wealth to finance foreign adventures.
If these guys want to boss around other countries that have no desire or possibilities of harming America then they should foot the bill themselves and not expect me to finance their wars through taxes and inflation.

Oh haa, the 500 cheeses part is about how I believe President De Gaulle of France said: "It is impossible to rule a country that has over 500 types of cheeses."

On the war thing... I do see where you are coing from on it but honestly, after our nation was attacked I support rooting out terrorism wherever it appears. Husseinw as supporting Palestinian suicide bombers religiously -- suicide bombers that had called American Jews while in Israel, and no to mention affected one of our closest allies.

So much Christian charity could fit on the head of a pin.

It is blatently obvious that the OPster has no life experience in the workforce. Thinks $10.00 an hour is a wage one can exist on! No, a person cannot exist on this wage. These days, this is the allowance of a High Schooler. Someone that lives with their parents and has virtually no expenses.

Joe Budda responds to this really well.

the fallacy of the op is that people are asking for their "dreams" to be given to them on a platter.

I'll cut this short:

Why should someone who chose to drop out of high school or chose to have kids before being prepared receive money?

....

Also, living on $10 an hour is not difficult. People who consider that as difficult should consider moving to a less expensive area. :)
 
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JoyJuice

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People who are making that kind of money are NOT spending 15% income tax.
From Edward Jones Investment:

10%: from $0 to $8,025
15%: from $8,026 to $32,550
25%: from $32,551 to $78,850
28%: from $78,851 to $164,550
33%: from $164,551 to $357,700
35%: $357,701 and above

Most "benefits packages" are 20%-25% of the wage/salary. That'd add about $4000 to the $20,800 per year - making it pretty darned close to the $25, I was talking about.
I don't think employers who are paying $10 an hour are in the position to offer full time benefits. Moreover, many see the advantage of having them work max parttime hours to keep from having provide benefits i.e Walmart, and let the Government saftey net catch them.

Speaking of mortgages & home ownership... I just bought two houses. I'd guess it's a pretty safe bet that I just might know a little about the process. And I can say that your theory isn't very realistic.
On $10 dollars an hour? You must be a Carlton Sheets gold star member.

A person can live on $10 per hour. But they might even have to do what a LOT of us have done over the years - that is, get a second job to pay some extra expenses. I know, I know - how unAmerican, to expect people to WORK for what we want. But it IS still possible.
You mean as in suplementing that 10 dollar an hour job with extra income. Of course, but you know what that means? They now make and are living off of more than $10 an hour.
 
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JoyJuice

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You have a libertarian symbol by your name and you are disagreeing with the post?

Where did I go wrong?

... Less government programs...
... Less wealth redistribution...
... Personal responsibility...
... Equality before the law...
... Not needing big government...

Sounds Libertarian as heck to me. If anything you should be saying, "Why do we even need to give health care to the poorest or even have public education?" Or has the Libertarian party been run over by people who want a different way of saying 'legalize gay marriage'?
It's one big strawman argument as you take a position that really is not vastly held (something for nothing) make non-sequintors that are not true...I mean really, the poor, middle class Korea and cars? Can you really compare those two cultures? coupled by statements that you haven't thought through...I mean there is no free education in the states, it's publically tax funded.

.....I could just go on...
 
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