We Choose God?

[SoccerAaron]

It is not a matter of God's choice, it is a matter of your friends choice.

Romans 3
10as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one."

Better hope it's not us.

 

[Reformationist]

Today at 07:50 AM SoccerAaron said this in Post #1

Romans 3
10as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one."

Better hope it's not us.

This is simply an issue of pride.  People hate to think of themselves in anything but the best of light.  Even Christians who hold to that poster's view say stuff like, "Oh I'm an unworthy sinner, etc."  The truth of what they really think doesn't take long to come out.  They may say they are unworthy but their theological stance does not support that foundation.  People prefer to think of themselves as people who would have come to the decision of "accepting Christ" on their own.  They don't want to see themselves as "the walking dead" or a created being or evil.  The truth is, a fallen person is all of those things.  It's just pride.

God bless,

Don

 

[Miyu]

that is quite a generalization...

Basically, you are saying that I am not a calvinist because of my pride...don't you think that is a bit of a leap?

 

[SoccerAaron]

I think he's saying that if you believe you have a part in your salvation it's because of pride. Because the Bible cleary does not teach that.
John 6:44
Romans 3:10-12
Romans 8:29
And more.

 

[Reformationist]

Today at 08:06 AM Miyu said this in Post #3

that is quite a generalization...

Basically, you are saying that I am not a calvinist because of my pride...don't you think that is a bit of a leap?

No, I'm not saying that.  I apologize that it came across that way.  I am just saying that many people have a hard time accepting the beliefs of the reformers because they don't like to start with the premise of the corruption of the nature of mankind that the reformers espoused.  They don't like to acknowledge that when the Bible says that man, after the Fall, is spiritually dead that actually means spiritually dead.  It doesn't mean "mostly bad" or "sorta, kinda helpless."  Part of the reason for that is that people like to think of themselves as decent people, even before they were Christians.  That's just not the truth of the Gospel.

God bless

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I don't think I had any part in my salvation. I do believe though that I choose whether to walk in obedience to Him or not.

 

[Jenna]

I'll just echo Quaffer. I can't do a darned thing to make myself righteous or saved, however, God can do all things.

 

[Andrew]

I think he's saying that if you believe you have a part in your salvation it's because of pride. Because the Bible cleary does not teach that.

that wld mean men are all just puppets, or that God created all pre-programmed robots. sounds like a very cold world.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Today at 12:15 AM Andrew said this in Post #8



that wld mean men are all just puppets, or that God created all pre-programmed robots. sounds like a very cold world.

I actually agree with both sides... yet both sides would likely disagree with me...

I think that the only way a person can be saved for God to draw them to Himself. He initates the action, and we can only respond.

Thing is, he is drawing all men to Himself, so the ball is really in our court.
We end up having to respond to the universal call.

I think the difference people have is in deciding who will respond and who will not. It seems one side is saying that God knows and so controls who will accept. The rejecters are lost causes so what is the use working with them. The other side says no. God knows, but has no part in the ulitimate decision as to who will accept and who will not.
I tend toward the latter. I think God knows... but it is not a "knowing" that lends itself to treating the accepters different from the rejecters. Jesus died for all... even the rejectors. He has taken away the sin of the world. This indicates God choose and made provision for all.
They just do not want Him.

 

[Jenna]

Awesome post, didaskalos. I have to agree that we get the chance to choose God, because he chose us first. Of course, 'us' means all of us in the whole world.

 

[JesusServant]

Yesterday at 12:04 PM Quaffer said this in Post #6

I don't think I had any part in my salvation. I do believe though that I choose whether to walk in obedience to Him or not.

Ditto to this.

 

Also, I think it's important to note that the OT Scripture posted is a quote from the Old Testament.  If my memory serves me correctly, it is David who said that.

 

[SoccerAaron]

If it's our choice, we wouldn't choose God. Romans 3:10-12

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yesterday at 01:35 PM SoccerAaron said this in Post #12

If it's our choice, we wouldn't choose God. Romans 3:10-12

I think most of us have already agreed that salvation has nothing to do with us.  So are you saying that He forces us to obey Him too.

 

[paulewog]

our "choice" ....

Yet God is in complete control.

It's a mystery, I don't understand it, but I'm not at the extreme of either end.

And then there is the verse, "You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you."

One pastor explained it like this - you decide to straighten up your life, and you get saved, and you walk under the archway of "salvation," the one with the sign that says "Come! Repent!"

And then you turn around, and on the back of the archway it says, "You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you."

How do those things work? I don't know.

But going to EITHER end, you have to ignore a lot of Scripture - there are lots of Scriptures that say God chooses us and there are lots that tell us to choose Him. Both are correct.

 

[Reformationist]

Yesterday at 12:34 PM Quaffer said this in Post #13

So are you saying that He forces us to obey Him too.

God doesn't "force" us to do anything.  No we are not robots.  Man acts according to his nature.  Fallen man has a fallen nature and will never act in faith therefore everything fallen man does is sinful.  Regenerate man has two natures, the new and the old.  He, through the grace of God, is putting off the old but, nonetheless, still battles it.  The only thing that enables any of us to be obedient is the grace of God.  So, a better way of saying it would be, "He enables us to obey Him."

God bless

 

[Job_38]

11th April 2003 at 05:15 AM Andrew said this in Post #8



that wld mean men are all just puppets, or that God created all pre-programmed robots. sounds like a very cold world.

No. God chooses us because He loves us. If He did not, NO ONE could/would come to Him.  Re-read the selection from Romans that whatshisface posted.

 

[Job_38]

12th April 2003 at 08:34 PM Quaffer said this in Post #13



I think most of us have already agreed that salvation has nothing to do with us.  So are you saying that He forces us to obey Him too.

 In a way, yes. Like I said earlier, re-read those verses in Romans. Man will not follow after God unless God draws them. Just as when Christ says no man can come unless the Spirit draws them.

In our fallen and sinful state, we rebel against God.

 

 

[Gideon4God]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

[Job_38]

True. True. And we cannot come unto God unless the Spirit draws us.

 

[paulewog]

As I said. Are we EVER going to understand this? Maybe, maybe not, but we sure won't with our minds the way they are.

How in the world can free will and sovreignty be coexistant?

"You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you." That's a really important passage.

There are many that speak about predestination and many that spaek about out free-will. also known as, "rebellious will"