We are told to follow Christ but how?

[BNR32FAN]

There is no scripture to go to church on Sunday. Furthermore, Sunday is not a day that God Blessed or made Holy. God rested on the seventh day, He sanctified it, He blessed it. He asked us to "Remember" it. Jesus kept the seventh-day Sabbath. Just from a common sense perspective, that's enough for me.

Praise the Lord, if that’s how you feel about it then more power to ya but you shouldn’t be telling others who also honor God that they’re not actually honoring Him, that they’re disobeying a commandment that He never actually gave. Just because you choose to interpret it that way doesn’t mean everyone else has to. The church abolished circumcision thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit and they also decided it is acceptable to worship on Sunday thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The purpose here is to honor God and that’s what we’re both doing. If we wanted to disobey God’s commandments we surely don’t need to go to church to do that.

 

[JAL]

There is no scripture to go to church on Sunday. Furthermore, Sunday is not a day that God Blessed or made Holy. God rested on the seventh day, He sanctified it, He blessed it. He asked us to "Remember" it. Jesus kept the seventh-day Sabbath. Just from a common sense perspective, that's enough for me.

You'll be in for a big surprise in heaven. God didn't bless Saturday. God didn't created the world in 7 24-hour days - that's a logical impossibility. Those are 7 literal days (accomplished via the Light of His face) - but spanned accross the 4 billion year history of the earth's creation. (I'm an Old Earth Creationist).

The Israeli Sabbath is a sabbath PATTERNED AFTER God's Sabbath. Israel's sabbath cannot be the REAL Sabbath because Genesis isn't recounting 24 hour periods. Israel's sabbath is merely analogical.

As a result, God can use ANY day of the week to meet that analogy. Saturday has no exclusive and preemptive rights to that honor.

BTW, the 7th day/daylight is eternal.

24 hour periods are based on our sun - but the sun wasn't set in place until the fourth Day!

If I have time, later I will explain why it is a logical impossibility to claim that God created the world in seven 24-hour periods (hint. it contradicts His character).

 

[BNR32FAN]

You'll be in for a big surprise in heaven. God didn't bless Saturday. God didn't created the world in 7 24-hour days - that's a logical impossibility. Those are 7 literal days (accomplished via the Light of His face) - but spanned accross the 4 billion year history of the earth's creation. (I'm an Old Earth Creationist).

The Israeli Sabbath is a sabbath PATTERNED AFTER God's Sabbath. Israel's sabbath cannot be the REAL Sabbath because Genesis isn't recounting 24 hour periods. Israel's sabbath is merely analogical.

As a result, God can use ANY day of the week to meet that analogy. Saturday has no exclusive and preemptive rights to that honor.

BTW, the 7th day/daylight is eternal.

24 hour periods are based on our sun - but the sun wasn't set in place until the fourth Day!

If I have time, later I will explain why it is a logical impossibility to claim that God created the world in seven 24-hour periods (hint. it contradicts His character).

It’s not impossible for God to create the earth in 6 days my friend. God isn’t restricted to work within the parameters of our knowledge of science.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Praise the Lord, if that’s how you feel about it then more power to ya but you shouldn’t be telling others who also honor God that they’re not actually honoring Him, that they’re disobeying a commandment that He never actually gave. Just because you choose to interpret it that way doesn’t mean everyone else has to. The church abolished circumcision thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit and they also decided it is acceptable to worship on Sunday thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The purpose here is to honor God and that’s what we’re both doing. If we wanted to disobey God’s commandments we surely don’t need to go to church to do that.

That's the problem, the Church, (Catholic if you want to be specific) changed the day of worship seventh day-Sabbath to unbiblical Sunday. Do you follow man or God? The Catholic church also changed God's laws to their own, which again is not Biblical and comes with a warning in the Bible.

Revelations 22: 18,19

A Warning
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The Holy Spirit will never go against God. This teaching is false. In fact Jesus said He provides a Helper to keep the Commandments of God John 14:15-18

Jesus Promises Another Helper
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It’s not impossible for God to create the earth in 6 days my friend. God isn’t restricted to work within the parameters of our knowledge of science.

At least we agree on something.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's the problem, the Church, (Catholic if you want to be specific) changed the day of worship seventh day-Sabbath to unbiblical Sunday. Do you follow man or God? The Catholic church also changed God's laws to their own, which again is not Biblical and comes with a warning in the Bible.

Revelations 22: 18,19

A Warning
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The Holy Spirit will never go against God. This teaching is false. In fact Jesus said He provides a Helper to keep the Commandments of God John 14:15-18

Jesus Promises Another Helper
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

This is exactly why Jesus often spoke in parables. He who has ears to hear let him hear.

 

[JAL]

It’s not impossible for God to create the earth in 6 days my friend. God isn’t restricted to work within the parameters of our knowledge of science.

It is impossible for God's holiness of character to be a contradiction in terms.

 

[JAL]

At least we agree on something.

And you're both dead wrong. Got news for you - about 2,000 years ago, the whole church was seduced by a philosopher named Plato leading to a concept of God that has virtually nothing in common with Yahweh. Any theologian who puts his mind to it should have been able to figure out, in about 5 minutes, that logical inconsistencies emerge here. And yet here they are 2,000 years later still teaching nonsense...

In Plato's understanding of goodness (holiness), it is an innate, immutable quality - as opposed to a quality (character) developed over time by free will. This contradicts the unanimous definition of merit - a definition (rightly) undergirding every sermon in the last 2,000 years. The only possible definition of merit is a status achieved by freely choosing to labor/suffer for a righteous cause over an extended period of time.

You see, Scripture doesn't merely COMMAND us to praise God - it insists that He is WORTHY of our praise, that He MERITS praise. Innate characteristics have no merit, and thus merit no praise. Do not praise me on account of my red blood, my beating heart, or my puffy cheeks. None of these things merit praise. Again:

"Merit is a status achieved by freely choosing to labor/suffer for a righteous cause over an extended period of time."

A great example is the cross. Suppose the Father had deadened Christ's nerves anesthetizing Him to all pain. How much praise would the cross have merited? None. Zero. Zilch. Nada!

Pretty much everything you learned about God? Throw it all in the toilet - it all came from Plato.

You see, if God wanted us to praise Him for innate characteristics, He'd be a colossal jerk. Literally. That is NOT holiness. Therefore everything that Scripture calls us to praise God for - all the constituent qualities of His holiness (His degree of knowledge, humility, patience, kindness, skills, etc) MUST be qualities that He labored to achieve over time.

How much labor? How much time? Consider this. The angels have merit. They labored/suffered against the agony of temptation and triumphed over it. And even men labor/suffer for fifty years or more. But Scripture says that God's merit is ineffably greater than that of men. This means that God must have labored/suffered an ineffably greater amount of time. Start thinking millions of years. Billions. Maybe tens of billions. We don't know for sure.

Back to Genesis. ONE of the things that Scripture tells us to praise God for is His marvelous creation. But most Christians believe that work to be effortless - no labor, no suffering! They claim that God basically spoke 7 times over 7 days! And He wants praise for it? What sort of jerk do they think He is!

And more than that. This colossal Jerk even has the AUDACITY to CLAIM that He labored! And it gets even worse. He even sets forth HIS example of labor as a model for us to follow. After all, great leaders set forth the example. A great leader is willing to labor harder and longer - and suffer far more - than his subordinates. But a leader who CLAIMS to have set a great example (and yet never really labored/suffered more hours and years than his subordinates) is an EVIL HYPOCRITE. Note how Yahweh sets forth HIS example of labor as the EXEMPLARY PARADIGM for us to emulate:

Six days you shall labor and do all your work... 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day"

So here Yahweh is telling men to labor six days a week - for about 50 years? And yet His so-called "labor" was 7 effortless 24 hour periods? Take your pick. Either God is an EVIL HYPOCRITE, OR He is a holy God who labored to become holy, who labored to figure out how to create this world and manage it.

I realize this contradicts everything we've been taught about God for 2,000 years. Precisely. That's the point.

 

[WebersHome]

.
Re: We are told to follow Christ but how?

Well; you could start by clicking on the link below.

Christ's Ways
_

 

[JAL]

For a further rebuttal of Plato's insidious influence, see this thread of mine:
God Is a Physical Being
Which terminates with a link to another thread of mine where, finally, I attempt to finish painting the picture of who Yahweh really is - and provide the real reason He created us (the church still has no idea why, even though, once again, any professional theologian should be able to figure it out in five minutes).

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is impossible for God's holiness of character to be a contradiction in terms.

Im not sure what you mean or how this is relevant to the topic.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And you're both dead wrong. Got news for you - about 2,000 years ago, the whole church was seduced by a philosopher named Plato leading to a concept of God that has virtually nothing in common with Yahweh. Any theologian who puts his mind to it should have been able to figure out, in about 5 minutes, that logical inconsistencies emerge here. And yet here they are 2,000 years later still teaching nonsense...

In Plato's understanding of goodness (holiness), it is an innate, immutable quality - as opposed to a quality (character) developed over time by free will. This contradicts the unanimous definition of merit - a definition (rightly) undergirding every sermon in the last 2,000 years. The only possible definition of merit is a status achieved by freely choosing to labor/suffer for a righteous cause over an extended period of time.

You see, Scripture doesn't merely COMMAND us to praise God - it insists that He is WORTHY of our praise, that He MERITS praise. Innate characteristics have no merit, and thus merit no praise. Do not praise me on account of my red blood, my beating heart, or my puffy cheeks. None of these things merit praise. Again:

"Merit is a status achieved by freely choosing to labor/suffer for a righteous cause over an extended period of time."

A great example is the cross. Suppose the Father had deadened Christ's nerves anesthetizing Him to all pain. How much praise would the cross have merited? None. Zero. Zilch. Nada!

Pretty much everything you learned about God? Throw it all in the toilet - it all came from Plato.

You see, if God wanted us to praise Him for innate characteristics, He'd be a colossal jerk. Literally. That is NOT holiness. Therefore everything that Scripture calls us to praise God for - all the constituent qualities of His holiness (His degree of knowledge, humility, patience, kindness, skills, etc) MUST be qualities that He labored to achieve over time.

How much labor? How much time? Consider this. The angels have merit. They labored/suffered against the agony of temptation and triumphed over it. And even men labor/suffer for fifty years or more. But Scripture says that God's merit is ineffably greater than that of men. This means that God must have labored/suffered an ineffably greater amount of time. Start thinking millions of years. Billions. Maybe tens of billions. We don't know for sure.

Back to Genesis. ONE of the things that Scripture tells us to praise God for is His marvelous creation. But most Christians believe that work to be effortless - no labor, no suffering! They claim that God basically spoke 7 times over 7 days! And He wants praise for it? What sort of jerk do they think He is!

And more than that. This colossal Jerk even has the AUDACITY to CLAIM that He labored! And it gets even worse. He even sets forth HIS example of labor as a model for us to follow. After all, great leaders set forth the example. A great leader is willing to labor harder and longer - and suffer far more - than his subordinates. But a leader who CLAIMS to have set a great example (and yet never really labored/suffered more hours and years than his subordinates) is an EVIL HYPOCRITE. Note how Yahweh sets forth HIS example of labor as the EXEMPLARY PARADIGM for us to emulate:

Six days you shall labor and do all your work... 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day"

So here Yahweh is telling men to labor six days a week - for about 50 years? And yet His so-called "labor" was 7 effortless 24 hour periods? Take your pick. Either God is an EVIL HYPOCRITE, OR He is a holy God who labored to become holy, who labored to figure out how to create this world and manage it.

I realize this contradicts everything we've been taught about God for 2,000 years. Precisely. That's the point.

So then your saying that the gates of hell did prevail over His church? That His church didn’t not remain and there’s been a complete absence of the true gospel being preached ever since the apostles established the church? What would even be the point of establishing a church if it would fall away in the very same generation it was established in? Your basically sayin that Christ’s plan to establish a church to spread the gospel failed. Your also not thinking this thru very well. Your implying that thousands upon thousands of servants of God who endured persecution and risked their very lives for the sake of the gospel, spread out over a vast area of thousands of miles from each other all agreed and accepted to teach a different gospel with absolutely no evidence of resistance at all? They all turned away from the true gospel to accept the philosophies of one man? That’s absurd.

 

[Studyman]

If all that Christ did in His life was to follow GOD's commandments to the full and fulfil all things as many suggest, how do I do the things He said to do without becoming legalistic and why are somethings okay to follow what He says and not others, who decides?

First, who told you that if you did what the Christ said to do, you would become "Legalistic"? Did Jesus tell you this in the Holy Scriptures HE inspired? Or did you hear this from a man who calls Him Lord, Lord?

Second, who told you there were some things OK to follow and others not? Are you hearing these things from every "Word which proceeds from the Mouth of God"?

Or are they religious philosophies of men?

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

 

[Studyman]

Sorry, but the possibility of legalism is very real. For example suppose you goto church on Saturday in "obedience to law", leaving at home an ultra-sick or ultra-elderly family member or relative to fend for themselves, thus allowing them to suffer miserably, possibly even die.

I really like your perspective in some of your posts. We are surrounded by religious philosophies of men, as prophesied. If it were not so, then the Christ would not have warned of them over and over.

But regarding your statements above, where is the "LAW" of God written in the Holy Scriptures that commands I go to a temple built of wood and stone on Saturday? How is such a Labor "obedient to Law"? Can you show me please, where God commanded this?

Legalism is prioritizing the letter of the law (the face-value meaning of the words) over the spirit of the law (the underlying meaning and real purpose of the law) - which is love. Whenever those two meanings diverge in real life scenarios, adherence to the letter is actually disobedience to the law, because it culminates in unloving behavior.

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

How does obedience to God's Law, by the letter, culminate in unloving behavior?

I read a post of yours in which you asked "Is God a Hypocrite"? And yet, it seems here that you are implying that if I believe, trust and follow His Actual Words I will be led astray. You seem to be implying that God was not capable of making HIS intentions clear when HE gave us the Holy Scriptures, written for OUR admonition?

I agree that God's Laws are Spiritual, Good, Just, and Holy.

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Who told you it was "legalism" to follow God's Laws?

Legalism is also the erroneous assumption that commands given to the people of the Bible necessarily obtain today. The spirit of the law (love) ALWAYS obtains. That is all.

Whose definition of "LOVE" shall I submit too? Who do the Holy Scriptures themselves tell us they were written for?

1 Cor. 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

When did this truth from Paul become untrue? At what point in history did these words become obsolete? When did "Our" become for someone else and not for us?

I enjoy your posts, and am looking forward to your answer to the questions I posed.

 

[Studyman]

The commandment is to rest and do no work. Not to worship.

This is so true. There is no commandment from God commanding men to build temples of wood and stone, then gather there every Sabbath to worship.

In the Levitical Priesthood where Levites built a sanctuary and had total control over the "Book of the Law" yes. But Jesus is now our High Priest, and HIS Temple is in the minds of His People where HE writes His Laws.

As HE defines for us.

IS. 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is so true. There is no commandment from God commanding men to build temples of wood and stone, then gather there every Sabbath to worship.

In the Levitical Priesthood where Levites built a sanctuary and had total control over the "Book of the Law" yes. But Jesus is now our High Priest, and HIS Temple is in the minds of His People where HE writes His Laws.

As HE defines for us.

IS. 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The Levites wrote the law to try to encompass anything that could possibly be construed as a sin. So they went above and beyond what God had commanded in an effort to keep people from sinning by mistake. Like for example forbidding anything that could possibly be considered to be work on the Sabbath. Some people take it to an extreme. I’ve met people who wouldn’t even turn on a light switch on Saturday because it is considered to be work. I mean I seriously doubt that turning on a light switch is an offense against God.

 

[JAL]

So then your saying that the gates of hell did prevail over His church? That His church didn’t not remain and there’s been a complete absence of the true gospel being preached ever since the apostles established the church? What would even be the point of establishing a church if it would fall away in the very same generation it was established in? Your basically sayin that Christ’s plan to establish a church to spread the gospel failed. Your also not thinking this thru very well. Your implying that thousands upon thousands of servants of God who endured persecution and risked their very lives for the sake of the gospel, spread out over a vast area of thousands of miles from each other all agreed and accepted to teach a different gospel with absolutely no evidence of resistance at all? They all turned away from the true gospel to accept the philosophies of one man? That’s absurd.

Yes that's totally absurd. To whom are you responding? What I sought to convey is that the church has a distorted, warped concept of Yahweh, has incorrect assumptions about Him, has created an evil caricature of Him, has refused to praise Him for billions of years of labor (which is probably worse than spitting on the cross). I did NOT argue that Yahweh has failed to secure a following, that the gospel has failed, that there is no body of believers - you are putting words in my mouth. I'm sorry you misunderstood me - partially my fault, perhaps, since I used strong language to make a point.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Im not sure what you mean or how this is relevant to the topic.

see his humanistic explanation lol.

 

[JAL]

see his humanistic explanation lol.

It's so amusing that, after I've exposed logical contradictions in a traditional viewpoint, the responses on this forum tacitly acknowledge a complete inability to rebut the charges/arguments. Thanks for confirming.

 

[JAL]

But regarding your statements above, where is the "LAW" of God written in the Holy Scriptures that commands I go to a temple built of wood and stone on Saturday? How is such a Labor "obedient to Law"? Can you show me please, where God commanded this?

That was a debating tactic. I was starting off with the assumptions of a Sabbatarian as to show where they extrapolate unfeasibly. I agree with your point.

How does obedience to God's Law, by the letter, culminate in unloving behavior?

Thought I was clear. God's law spells love (the spirit of the law). Whenever the letter of the law (e.g. sacrifice these animals) is not God's current will for your life - spirit (love) and letter have diverged - following the letter is obviously a divergence from love, by definition. Logically there's no escaping this conclusion. Right?

I read a post of yours in which you asked "Is God a Hypocrite"? And yet, it seems here that you are implying that if I believe, trust and follow His Actual Words I will be led astray. You seem to be implying that God was not capable of making HIS intentions clear when HE gave us the Holy Scriptures, written for OUR admonition?

God cannot do what is logically impossible. Written words can only express micro-snapshots of His will. There's a million decisions in your life that the Scriptures do not give unambiguously clear instructions on. That's why we need the Voice - the primacy of Direct Revelation as opposed to the Sola Scriptura theory. I have threads defending this so I'll provide some links later. Also my initial post on this thread laid some of that foundation.

Who told you it was "legalism" to follow God's Laws?

See above.

Whose definition of "LOVE" shall I submit too? Who do the Holy Scriptures themselves tell us they were written for?

Exactly. Any HUMAN intepretation/exegesis of the laws is fallible. That's why we need the Voice - the Authority on Love.

When did this truth from Paul become untrue? At what point in history did these words become obsolete? When did "Our" become for someone else and not for us?

Not obsolete - in fact the main purpose is to point us to the need for Direct Revelation - the Voice - see 1Cor 14:1 That's the main purpose of both 1Corinthians and Galatians by the way.