We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.

[UNKN0WN]

​

Why did Paul agree to bring on him harm? Why did not Paul simply bless Elymas and pray for him?


Paul should have just walked away, and have no part in doing harm to Elymas?







.

Perhaps Paul should have thought 'WWJD'?

 

[UNKN0WN]

Your assumptions are wrong according to church dogma I have been saved more than once and not at all but it was only after leaving the church dogma behind that I began to see the light.

The Christ is less clearly seen among the christians than the heathens, IMO.

You do realize that personal revelation is the excuse used by many who perform actions contrary to biblical teachings.

Corporate revelation is just as, if not more, guilty of apostacy, IMO.

A teaching that can be backed up by Bible verses is not necessarily one that reflects what the Christ taught. History has proved this, and we see it today too.

It is better to believe something that you know intuitively and/or rationally to be true, rather than that which you are told to believe or convinced externally. The Christ wishes us to know God personally, rather than merely do as we are told.

 

[Giver]

The Christ is less clearly seen among the christians than the heathens, IMO.



Corporate revelation is just as, if not more, guilty of apostacy, IMO.

A teaching that can be backed up by Bible verses is not necessarily one that reflects what the Christ taught. History has proved this, and we see it today too.
That is an easy copout statement to make. Why don’t you back up that remark with some proof?

It is better to believe something that you know intuitively and/or rationally to be true, rather than that which you are told to believe or convinced externally. The Christ wishes us to know God personally, rather than merely do as we are told.

We are to believe what Jesus/Holy Spirit teaches us.

 

[GenemZ]

Perhaps Paul should have thought 'WWJD'?

You're not serious, are you?

Read this again.....

Acts 13:8-11 (New International Version)

But Elymas the sorcerer (for that is what his name means) opposed them and tried to turn the proconsul from the faith. Then Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight at Elymas and said, "You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind, and for a time you will be unable to see the light of the sun."​

​

Did you mean? The Holy Spirit and Jesus are not One? They disagree?

Like I said... you are not serious. Right? For you know the Holy Spirit is God. Right? Or, are you saying that Jesus is not God?

What you said gets confusing when you know what the Word of God says.


Paul was expressing the mind of God because he was just as filled of the Holy Spirit as Jeremiah and Isaiah were.

Hebrews 13:8 (New International Version)
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."
​

.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Corporate revelation is just as, if not more, guilty of apostacy, IMO.

A teaching that can be backed up by Bible verses is not necessarily one that reflects what the Christ taught. History has proved this, and we see it today too.

It is better to believe something that you know intuitively and/or rationally to be true, rather than that which you are told to believe or convinced externally. The Christ wishes us to know God personally, rather than merely do as we are told.

I understand your point, but I was just pointing out that the "Jesus told me this secret revelation" is a tired line, when its not scripturally sound.

 

[Giver]

I understand your point, but I was just pointing out that the "Jesus told me this secret revelation" is a tired line, when its not scripturally sound.

I believe the most harmful practice in the Christian Church is; teaching people about God as if it was subject such as history, philosophy, language, or some other subject we study in our schools. The Bible is treated as if it was a textbook. Someone writes their version of what the authors were saying, and some one else writes their interpretation. People study some of these authors, and decide which one fits their particular slant, and all of a sudden that is the truth. Many because they have gone to college and passed some theology courses, believe this makes them educated and intelligent, so then they are in a position to tell others what is the truth.

All that is very sad. Jesus told us he would send people, who believed in him, his Holy Spirit to teach them. He also said his people would hear his voice. Why if God is our teacher does anyone allow man to be his or her teacher? You know a person doesn’t need to be intelligent, or educated, in the words way, to know God so they can live his Word.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I believe the most harmful practice in the Christian Church is; teaching people about God as if it was subject such as history, philosophy, language, or some other subject we study in our schools. The Bible is treated as if it was a textbook. Someone writes their version of what the authors were saying, and some one else writes their interpretation. People study some of these authors, and decide which one fits their particular slant, and all of a sudden that is the truth. Many because they have gone to college and passed some theology courses, believe this makes them educated and intelligent, so then they are in a position to tell others what is the truth.

Hello again,
I was referring to those who use the "Jesus told me this n that" line to justify some sort of action, even when it is contrary to scripture and has no scriptural support whatsoever.

All that is very sad. Jesus told us he would send people, who believed in him, his Holy Spirit to teach them. He also said his people would hear his voice. Why if God is our teacher does anyone allow man to be his or her teacher? You know a person doesn’t need to be intelligent, or educated, in the words way, to know God so they can live his Word.

Sure He did, but how do you know someone is speaking through revelation of His Spirit? Unless you have a guide to fall back on, to verify it is in line with what has already been taught.

And please don't give me a lecture about intelligence and education, I never finished high school and don't have any sort of theological training whatsoever. (Im sure it shows, too )



God may have revealed to you that you are not to hurt anyone for any reason, but He has not revealed it to me. He has repeatedly revealed to me that as a man I am to take care of my responsibilities, which include the welfare and safety of others.

So all I can say is, do you what you do, I'll do what I do, and hopefully we will see each other at the other end.

Take care.

 

[GenemZ]

Matthew 8:9 (New International Version)
"For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and that one, 'Come,' and he comes. I say to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it."
​

Matthew 8:5-12 - What does Jesus do? He praises the faith of the Roman Centurion.

Does Jesus tell him to quit the army?

To not hurt anyone anymore?

I think he must be a different Jesus than the one someone here claims to have heard.









.

 

[childofgod57]

as for the post a few back it was GOD who struck the sorceror blind not paul,paul was merely telling him what was to happen to him

 

[Giver]

Hello again,
I was referring to those who use the "Jesus told me this n that" line to justify some sort of action, even when it is contrary to scripture and has no scriptural support whatsoever.
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Sure He did, but how do you know someone is speaking through revelation of His Spirit? Unless you have a guide to fall back on, to verify it is in line with what has already been taught.
Don’t be too concerned about if God is teaching someone else or not. After a person is brought to accept Jesus as their Lord and God, the Holy Spirit will teach that person.

Each and every person’s responsibility is to hear the Word of the Lord and live that Word. We have been given a written Word of God. If a person is being taught something that doesn’t agree with that Word, then it isn’t God teaching them.



And please don't give me a lecture about intelligence and education, I never finished high school and don't have any sort of theological training whatsoever. (Im sure it shows, too )



God may have revealed to you that you are not to hurt anyone for any reason, but He has not revealed it to me. He has repeatedly revealed to me that as a man I am to take care of my responsibilities, which include the welfare and safety of others.

So all I can say is, do you what you do, I'll do what I do, and hopefully we will see each other at the other end.


Take care.

I don’t know how God goes about teaching everyone else. He has taken his time teaching me. I was in his ministry for over a year, before the subject of killing, harming or hurting another person, was brought to my attention. Before that I believed it was my duty to defend my country etc. I had served five years in the US Armed forces.

People try to use the excuse that Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul didn’t tell the solders to right away lay down their arms. A person first has to come to really know God, and then start learning what he wants for them to-do.

Jesus told us:(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

Because this doesn’t make much sense to most people they try to twist the Word of God so they can disregard what Jesus said. That is why we can’t trust people to teach us what God has for us to do.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

like i said before, to each his own. You obviously aren't swayed by any evidence contrary to your stand on this, and you have that right. So best of luck to you.

 

[GenemZ]

as for the post a few back it was GOD who struck the sorceror blind not paul,paul was merely telling him what was to happen to him

And, it was God (the Holy Spirit) that did it, when Samson slew the Philistines with the jaw bone of an donkey. Is it the same God? Has God changed?


Yet? Samson claims to be the one who did it (by the grace of God).

Judges 15:16 (New International Version)
"Then Samson said,
"With a donkey's jawbone
I have made donkeys of them.

With a donkey's jawbone
I have killed a thousand men."

​

 

[Zecryphon]

And, it was God (the Holy Spirit) that did it, when Samson slew the Philistines with the jaw bone of an donkey. Is it the same God? Has God changed?


Yet? Samson claims to be the one who did it (by the grace of God).

Judges 15:16 (New International Version)
"Then Samson said,
"With a donkey's jawbone
I have made donkeys of them.

With a donkey's jawbone
I have killed a thousand men."

​

Here is an excerpt from the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia on the Holy Spirit and how the ancient writers of the Biblical text may have understood the Spirit of God. I provide this for educational purposes only.

I. Old Testament Teachings as to the Spirit​

1. Meaning of the Word

At the outset we note the significance of the term itself. From the primary meaning of the word which is "wind," as referring to Nature, arises the idea of breath in man and thence the breath, wind or Spirit of God. We have no way of tracing exactly how the minds of the Biblical writers connected the earlier literal meaning of the word with the Divine Spirit. Nearly all shades of meaning from the lowest to the highest appear in the Old Testament, and it is not difficult to conceive how the original narrower meaning was gradually expanded into the larger and wider.

The following are some of the shades of Old Testament usage. From the notion of wind or breath, rūaḥ came to signify: (1) The principle of life itself; spirit in this sense indicated the degree of vitality: "My spirit is consumed, my days are extinct" (Job_17:1; also Jdg_15:19; 1Sa_30:12); (2) human feelings of various kinds, as anger (Jdg_8:3; Pro_29:11), desire (Isa_26:9), courage (Jos_2:11); (3) intelligence (Exo_28:3; Isa_29:24); (4) general disposition (Psa_34:18; 5l 17; Pro_14:29; Pro_16:18; Pro_29:23).

No doubt the Biblical writers thought of man as made in the image of God (Gen_1:27 f), and it was easy for them to think of God as being like man. It is remarkable that their anthropomorphism did not go farther. They preserve, however, a highly spiritual conception of God as compared with that of surrounding nations. But as the human breath was an invisible part of man, and as it represented his vitality, his life and energy, it was easy to transfer the conception to God in the effort to represent His energetic and transitive action upon man and Nature. The Spirit of God, therefore, as based upon the idea of the rūaḥ or breath of man, originally stood for the energy or power of God (Isa_31:3; compare A. B. Davidson, Theology of the Old Testament, 117-18), as contrasted with the weakness of the flesh.

 

[GenemZ]

Here is an excerpt from the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia on the Holy Spirit and how the ancient writers of the Biblical text may have understood the Spirit of God. I provide this for educational purposes only.

I. Old Testament Teachings as to the Spirit​

1. Meaning of the Word

At the outset we note the significance of the term itself. From the primary meaning of the word which is "wind," as referring to Nature, arises the idea of breath in man and thence the breath, wind or Spirit of God. We have no way of tracing exactly how the minds of the Biblical writers connected the earlier literal meaning of the word with the Divine Spirit. Nearly all shades of meaning from the lowest to the highest appear in the Old Testament, and it is not difficult to conceive how the original narrower meaning was gradually expanded into the larger and wider.

No Scripture was written by private interpretation. So? It does not matter how they saw it. What matters is that what happened was recorded. Now that we understand what it means, is what matters. For we have been given the Mind (thinking) of Christ. Samson slew the Philistines by means of the Spirit coming upon him. Just like the Prophets had this happen when they prophesied.

Judges 15:16 (New International Version)
"Then Samson said,
"With a donkey's jawbone
I have made donkeys of them.

With a donkey's jawbone
I have killed a thousand men."



​

What does that tell us? Since it was God that controlled the results in power?

John 2:14-16 (New International Version)
"In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"


,
​

 

[Zecryphon]

No Scripture was written by private interpretation. So? It does not matter how they saw it. What matters is that what happened was recorded. Now that we understand what it means, is what matters. For we have been given the Mind (thinking) of Christ. Samson slew the Philistines by means of the Spirit coming upon him. Just like the Prophets had this happen when they prophesied.

Judges 15:16 (New International Version)
"Then Samson said,
"With a donkey's jawbone
I have made donkeys of them.

With a donkey's jawbone
I have killed a thousand men."



​

What does that tell us? Since it was God that controlled the results in power?

John 2:14-16 (New International Version)
"In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"


,
​

"No Scripture was written by private interpretation. So? It does not matter how they saw it."

It does if they're taking a literal word like wind and somehow attaching a supernatural meaning to it, as it seems the did concerning the Spirit of God.

"What matters is that what happened was recorded. Now that we understand what it means, is what matters. For we have been given the Mind (thinking) of Christ."

If we truly had the mind of Christ, we wouldn't have so many questions and misunderstandings regarding the nature of God or the scriptures. We also wouldn't have such a desire to sin.

 

[GenemZ]

It does if they're taking a literal word like wind and somehow attaching a supernatural meaning to it, as it seems the did concerning the Spirit of God.

This is really sad. The word pnuema can mean various things. Like the word "run."

I run down the street.

She had a run in her stocking.

The paper corrected the error in the second run.

Clinton is running for office.

He had a good run of luck.

Is your nose running?

If we truly had the mind of Christ, we wouldn't have so many questions and misunderstandings regarding the nature of God or the scriptures. We also wouldn't have such a desire to sin.

Having being given wealth does not mean the person its given to, knows how to use it... Give it to a child and he may end up killing himself with a diet of candy and soda. Having being given the mind of Christ, does not measn it will be put to proper use. Its potential based upon a reality. If one is arrogant they will never recognize the power and potential of what it is we have been given.


For "Grace" is the key to tapping into the mind of Christ.

James 4:6 (New International Version)
"But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:
"God opposes the proud
but gives grace to the humble."​

That is why we all can not agree...





.

 

[Zecryphon]

[/COLOR][/FONT]

This is really sad. The word pnuema can mean various things. Like the word "run."

I run down the street.

She had a run in her stocking.

The paper corrected the error in the second run.

Clinton is running for office.

He had a good run of luck.

Is your nose running?








Having being given wealth does not mean the person its given to, knows how to use it... Give it to a child and he may end up killing himself with a diet of candy and soda. Having being given the mind of Christ, does not measn it will be put to proper use. Its potential based upon a reality. If one is arrogant they will never recognize the power and potential of what it is we have been given.


For "Grace" is the key to tapping into the mind of Christ.

James 4:6 (New International Version)
"But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:
"God opposes the proud
but gives grace to the humble."​

That is why we all can not agree...





.

"This is really sad. The word pnuema can mean various things. Like the word "run."

I run down the street.

She had a run in her stocking.

The paper corrected the error in the second run.

Clinton is running for office.

He had a good run of luck.

Is your nose running?"

Granted, and since it can have various meanings we have to understand the text as the audience to whom it was written would have understood it. That's one of the first rules I was taught in Hermeneutics. It's essential if we're going to keep the text in context.






Quote:
If we truly had the mind of Christ, we wouldn't have so many questions and misunderstandings regarding the nature of God or the scriptures. We also wouldn't have such a desire to sin.
Quote:

"Having being given wealth does not mean the person its given to, knows how to use it... Give it to a child and he may end up killing himself with a diet of candy and soda. Having being given the mind of Christ, does not measn it will be put to proper use. Its potential based upon a reality. If one is arrogant they will never recognize the power and potential of what it is we have been given."

True.


For "Grace" is the key to tapping into the mind of Christ.

 

[A. believer]

People try to use the excuse that Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul didn’t tell the solders to right away lay down their arms. A person first has to come to really know God, and then start learning what he wants for them to-do.

This is why I didn't bother to cite Scripture to you. When people do, you have the audacity to dismiss it as an "excuse."

The Lord Jesus and His apostles were always telling believers to stop their sinful behaviors, and yet, in the case of those whose duty required sometimes using force against others, they were never told to stop. But you know better, so you can dismiss the teachings of the apostles and even the Lord Jesus, Himself. Their teachings don't apply to you because you're more spiritual than they.

 

[Giver]

This is why I didn't bother to cite Scripture to you. When people do, you have the audacity to dismiss it as an "excuse."

The Lord Jesus and His apostles were always telling believers to stop their sinful behaviors, and yet, in the case of those whose duty required sometimes using force against others, they were never told to stop. But you know better, so you can dismiss the teachings of the apostles and even the Lord Jesus, Himself. Their teachings don't apply to you because you're more spiritual than they.

Lets use scripture. Jesus told us:
(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

Now all you are trying to do is say he didn’t mean that. Using the excuse that it wasn’t written that he didn’t tell some soldiers to stop killing. Now I know what he did say. You don’t know what he didn’t say. Don’t give me you can’t use scripture with me. Show me where Jesus said defend yourself with force.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

here's a few to add to the ones previously mentioned.

Exodus 22:2-3 (New International Version)


2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens [a] after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed.
"A thief must certainly make restitution, but if he has nothing, he must be sold to pay for his theft.

Proverbs 25:26 (New International Version)

26 Like a muddied spring or a polluted well
is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked.
1Timothy 5:8 (New International Version)

8If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Psalm 144

Of David.

1 Praise be to the LORD my Rock,
who trains my hands for war,
my fingers for battle.