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If the devil told me that then it must not be scriptural, show me in scripture where Im wrong. Show me a place where Jesus tells us that we have a right to harm anyone. Remember Im talking about Christians, not people of the world. The world needs to use force, because it needs to have laws to stop people from doing evil.Jesus told me the devil told you that.
To say that is unjust?
It says two things. God is a liar. God is unjust. .
Read Hell's Best Kept Secret by Ray Comfort or listen to the teaching here:The doctorine teaches us somethign that is extremely unjust. There is no way to honestly deny it. And you are wrong saying that it is unjust does not say that God is unjust nor that God is a liar. God will not do this, God has not said he would do this. Men do not know what they are talking about. If God did do this then he would be unjust and he would be a liar. It is those who say he will that say he is unjust while saying he is just and say he is a liar while saying he can not lie.
I don;t want to turn this thread into a debate on hell, plenty of others for that but I will point out that any who think hell [as in eternal on ging punishment] is just does not have the slightest idea what just is and really need to stop using the word as it only makes them look foolish.
You may not like Ray Comfort and that's obvious from your statement. Now why don't you listen to the teaching and see if what he says makes sense. Focus on the teaching, not the teacher. Afraid you might find out you're wrong? I see you haven't given an interpretation of the scriptures I've provided. Apparently you don't want to address any teaching but just dismiss them because you don't like the teacher. That's fine too.Ray Comfort? You've got to be kidding.
And no it is not simple. To send anyone to hell for eternity is far more unjust than anything that could ever be imagioned. It is more evil than all the evil done by all the most evil humans who have ever lived all rolled into one. In fact it is millions of times moreso.
It is in a word nonsense that only the blind could believe.
"And no it is not simple."
"To send anyone to hell for eternity is far more unjust than anything that could ever be imagioned. It is more evil than all the evil done by all the most evil humans who have ever lived all rolled into one. In fact it is millions of times moreso."
"It is in a word nonsense that only the blind could believe."
"Let's also remember that same bible says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repenatnce. That he wills all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, that every knee will bow and every tongue will swear, that he will give freely the waters of life to any who are a thrist."Let's also remember that same bible says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repenatnce. That he wills all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, that every knee will bow and every tongue will swear, that he will give freely the waters of life to any who are a thrist.
Eternal Hell fire doctorines teach us that God does not obtain his will instead what he is not willing to allow he actually does and not just to a few but to the majority of mankind.
Again it is nonsense.
No point going any farther. This thread is not about hell and those who are blind enough to believe in such nonsense can not be reasoned with anyway.
"Eternal Hell fire doctorines teach us that God does not obtain his will instead what he is not willing to allow he actually does and not just to a few but to the majority of mankind.
Again it is nonsense."
No point going any farther. This thread is not about hell and those who are blind enough to believe in such nonsense can not be reasoned with anyway.
You may not like Ray Comfort and that's obvious from your statement. Now why don't you listen to the teaching and see if what he says makes sense. Focus on the teaching, not the teacher. Afraid you might find out you're wrong? I see you haven't given an interpretation of the scriptures I've provided. Apparently you don't want to address any teaching but just dismiss them because you don't like the teacher. That's fine too.
Nonsense. God gets what God wants, no exceptions."Let's also remember that same bible says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repenatnce. That he wills all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, that every knee will bow and every tongue will swear, that he will give freely the waters of life to any who are a thrist."
That's true, He does desire that. But He also knows that not all will come. For those who will not come to Him, Hell is their punishment, because they don't want Christ as their savior, for whatever reason and have opted to take the punishment themselves.
Been there done that, many times over. No matter how anyone twists the facts the injustice is not changed words are redefined, pagans myths twisted into doctorine and enteranl torture viewed as just by those who are blind. There really is no point in going over it.Ya know for a seeker, you seem to have it all figured out. Do you really wanna get into a debate about the various wills of God?
Taking God at his word? Give me a break. The bible tells us that God has sworn by himself that every knee shall bend and every tongue shall swear. It tells us that when it comes to saving people that with God all things are possible, that he will search for that one lost sheep until he finds it. We are given Paul as an example of the chief of all sinners who was converted in a flash the moment God chose to do so. Don't try and tell me that God can't or won't and don;t try to convince me that there is any justice in torturing the ignorant for eternity, there is no such thing as justice in such teachings.Or perhaps it's pointless because you can't reason the doctrine of Hell away. I gave you scriptures that plainly teach on the last day people are going to Hell. You can call us blind and whatnot for taking God at His word. Whatever you have to do or say to make yourself feel better.
Nonsense. God gets what God wants, no exceptions.[/color][/font][/size][/color][/font]
Been there done that, many times over. No matter how anyone twists the facts the injustice is not changed words are redefined, pagans myths twisted into doctorine and enteranl torture viewed as just by those who are blind. There really is no point in going over it.
Taking God at his word? Give me a break. The bible tells us that God has sworn by himself that every knee shall bend and every tongue shall swear. It tells us that when it comes to saving people that with God all things are possible, that he will search for that one lost sheep until he finds it. We are given Paul as an example of the chief of all sinners who was converted in a flash the moment God chose to do so. Don't try and tell me that God can't or won't and don;t try to convince me that there is any justice in torturing the ignorant for eternity, there is no such thing as justice in such teachings.
People often over look the tons of scripture that affirm Gods will to save all of mankind and opt to read into the errant understanding of hell and eternity, both of which are very poor translations.
As for having it all figured out, no far from it but one thing I am sure of and that is that eternal hell fire doctorines are totally bogus and always have been. This is a subject I have studied for years don't think you can surprise me with a scripture, I've seen them all and don't think you can convince me there is justice done in such a thing as I am not that stupid.
Nonsense. God gets what God wants, no exceptions.
"Been there done that, many times over. No matter how anyone twists the facts the injustice is not changed words are redefined, pagans myths twisted into doctorine and enteranl torture viewed as just by those who are blind. There really is no point in going over it."
"Taking God at his word? Give me a break. The bible tells us that God has sworn by himself that every knee shall bend and every tongue shall swear. It tells us that when it comes to saving people that with God all things are possible, that he will search for that one lost sheep until he finds it. We are given Paul as an example of the chief of all sinners who was converted in a flash the moment God chose to do so. Don't try and tell me that God can't or won't and don;t try to convince me that there is any justice in torturing the ignorant for eternity, there is no such thing as justice in such teachings."
"People often over look the tons of scripture that affirm Gods will to save all of mankind and opt to read into the errant understanding of hell and eternity, both of which are very poor translations."
Matthew 25:41 (New International Version)
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
I admit... Hell fire preaching should be not the way to the good news. But? To try to deny there are consequences for rejecting Jesus Christ?
That's plain outright denial. For the Bible makes it clear that there is to be a Lake of Fire for all who rejected Christ.
If you want to call it unjust? That is one thing. But, to deny it will be that way? It makes no sense.
Revelation 20:14-15 (New International Version)
"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
To say that is unjust?
It says two things. God is a liar. God is unjust.
What such a person should be asking themselves...
"If, God is just? If, God does not lie?"
"Then... I am yet to understand God as he really is."
.
ah, gotcha. I really haven't spent alot of time studying the concepts of hell or eternal damnation, I feel like its irrelevant with regards to where I'm going. From what i've gathered of it , though, it seems like alot of the common concept of hell is based alot on works like dante's inferno.
Which is precisely why a presentation of the law of God is necessary in a witnessing encounter, before you present the good news of the gospel. The law and the gospel can work together, it doesn't have to be this either/or situation that modern day Christianity wants to make exist.The Word says though that if it weren't for the law, we wouldn't know what sin is.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but
by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
and wouldn't understand how great the price of sin is, and therefore we couldn't
appreciate the work of the cross. Romans 7:7
So, people do need to understand the bad news
(condemned status before God outside of Christ)
because of sin, before they can appreciate the good news.
Unless people know why Christ went to the cross they cannot
appreciate on an individual basis how great the love of the Lord
is for them, and what He has done for them.
God bless
Nonsense. God gets what God wants, no exceptions.[/color][/font][/size][/color][/font]
Been there done that, many times over. No matter how anyone twists the facts the injustice is not changed words are redefined, pagans myths twisted into doctorine and enteranl torture viewed as just by those who are blind. There really is no point in going over it.
Taking God at his word? Give me a break. The bible tells us that God has sworn by himself that every knee shall bend and every tongue shall swear. It tells us that when it comes to saving people that with God all things are possible, that he will search for that one lost sheep until he finds it. We are given Paul as an example of the chief of all sinners who was converted in a flash the moment God chose to do so. Don't try and tell me that God can't or won't and don;t try to convince me that there is any justice in torturing the ignorant for eternity, there is no such thing as justice in such teachings.
People often over look the tons of scripture that affirm Gods will to save all of mankind and opt to read into the errant understanding of hell and eternity, both of which are very poor translations.
As for having it all figured out, no far from it but one thing I am sure of and that is that eternal hell fire doctorines are totally bogus and always have been. This is a subject I have studied for years don't think you can surprise me with a scripture, I've seen them all and don't think you can convince me there is justice done in such a thing as I am not that stupid.
If the devil told me that then it must not be scriptural, show me in scripture where I’m wrong. Show me a place where Jesus tells us that we have a right to harm anyone. Remember I’m talking about Christians, not people of the world. The world needs to use force, because it needs to have laws to stop people from doing evil.
We're not poking fun at you, we're trying to help you understand. But what do you do? You call us blind and misguided and say there is no point in talking with us. You have presented no facts that disprove what we're saying. So if you have some, start another thread on this subject and I know there will be plenty of people there to discuss it with you.As I said before there is no point in even trying to talk with anyone so blind as to think that eternal torture is just. They simply have no idea what they are talking about and refuse to admit thier error.
And yes God gets what God wants,
Now you guys can poke fun and you can present your missleading opinions all you want the facts do not change. I did not claim to know everything exactly the opposite in fact. I do know beyond any doubt that eternal torture is evil to the utmost extent possible. I also know that hell fire doctorines are filled with double speak and ignorance of many scriptures but it seems that those believers have been conditioned in such a way as to not see any of them in the light of day and rather hold unto the illusion of eternal torture being just. How can anyone talk to such people rationally?
The bible tells us that there will come a time of a great delusion where people will believe a lie that they will call good evil and evil good. Many of those people would point out what I just said about eternal hell fire being evil as such an instance but what I speak is truth any one who can not see that torturing a helpless [yes we are helpless to defend ourselves against an infinite being] is evil and unjust has no concept of what the words even mean.
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