We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.

GenemZ · Dec 16, 2007

1 Corinthians 13:6-7 (New International Version)

"Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

Luke 11:21 (New International Version)

"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe."

Some here think Jesus sees our possessions as having more value than our love ones...

Giver · Dec 16, 2007

genez said:
1 Corinthians 13:6-7 (New International Version)
"Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

Luke 11:21 (New International Version)
"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe."

Some here think Jesus sees our possessions as having more value than our love ones...

(Matthew 13:13)The reason I talk to them in parables is that they look without seeing and listen without hearing or understanding,

Giver · Dec 16, 2007

Giver said:
(Matthew 13:13)The reason I talk to them in parables is that they look without seeing and listen without hearing or understanding,

tqpix · Dec 16, 2007

Giver said:
Jesus personally told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason.

The written Word of God tells us the same thing.

(Matthew 5:44) But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;

(Matthew 5:39) You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.

When God tells us something it is very dangerous to ignore what he says. Right?

Then why did Moses kill an Egyptian for mistreating a Jew?

Soul Searcher · Dec 16, 2007

My own personal opinion is that when someone takes the stance that they would not harm one man to save 5 others then they are really putting themselves above those who need thier help. They can claim they are putting God first but incorrectly so as God would have them help those in need even if it meant thier own life but what we sometimes see is some people so worried about thier own salvation that they place thier own self above all others and say it is for God.

Regaurdless of which decision we make God will know why we made it and will understand and forgive even if it is the wrong decision but it is a sad thing when we put our religion above the life and well being of any creature and I am certian there will be some accounting to be done for such things.

I have had people tell me that they would not lie to protect thier family, that they would not harm nor kill to protect thier loved ones, it seems that the real motivation is they are afraid for themselves, afraid of hell perhaps but whatever the fear may be it is a self centered one that ignores the needs of the many in favor of the needs of the self and uses God as an excuse.

Giver · Dec 16, 2007

Soul Searcher said:
My own personal opinion is that when someone takes the stance that they would not harm one man to save 5 others then they are really putting themselves above those who need thier help. They can claim they are putting God first but incorrectly so as God would have them help those in need even if it meant thier own life but what we sometimes see is some people so worried about thier own salvation that they place thier own self above all others and say it is for God.

Regaurdless of which decision we make God will know why we made it and will understand and forgive even if it is the wrong decision but it is a sad thing when we put our religion above the life and well being of any creature and I am certian there will be some accounting to be done for such things.

I have had people tell me that they would not lie to protect thier family, that they would not harm nor kill to protect thier loved ones, it seems that the real motivation is they are afraid for themselves, afraid of hell perhaps but whatever the fear may be it is a self centered one that ignores the needs of the many in favor of the needs of the self and uses God as an excuse.

You know dont you that your opinion is right in line with most of the people in the word? That in and of its self should scare you.

The world is always wrong about God, and his laws. The only way to learn the truth is to go to Jesus personally and ask him.

GenemZ · Dec 16, 2007

Giver said:
(Matthew 13:13)”The reason I talk to them in parables is that they look without seeing and listen without hearing or understanding,”

Those were not parables.

1 Corinthians 13:6-7 (New International Version)

"Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

That's parable to you?

Luke 11:21 (New International Version)

"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe."

That's a parable, too??? That's a stated reality in order to make a point about a situation. If anything Jesus was illustrating his point. They ALL got it. Parables is what outsiders would not get.

This is getting silly. I hate to say it....

But?

Your position is indefensible. (no pun intended)

You try harder to defend your denial of defense, then you would try to defend a love one in harm's way. I find that to be a bit of bitter irony.

Zecryphon · Dec 16, 2007

Giver said:
The true sheep of Christ are those who hear the Word of the Lord and live it.

True sheep: (1 John 3:5-6) Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.

True sheep: (Matthew 5:39) You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.

True sheep: (Luke 14:33) So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.

True sheep: (Luke 6:30-35) Give to everyone who asks you, and do not ask for your property back from the man who robs you. Treat others, as you would like them to treat you. If you love those who love you, what thanks can you expect? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks can you expect? For even sinners do that much. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive what thanks can you expect? Even sinners lend to sinners to get back the same amount. Instead, love your enemies and do good, and lend without any hope of return. You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

True sheep: (Matthew 6:19-21) Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and woodworms destroy them and thieves can break in and steal. But store up treasures for yourselves in heaven, where neither moth nor woodworms destroy tem and thieves cannot break in and steal. For where your treasure is there will your heart be also.

True sheep:(Matthew 7:21) It is not those who say to me, Lord, Lord, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name? Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!

You obviously haven't heard the Word, Giver if you're spouting false teaching such as this:

"We can never understand his ways with our minds, so just do what he says. Our life here is a testing ground. So lets just follow Jesus and hope we pass the test."

This statement is an advocation of working your way to God by doing things, instead of having faith in Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches that it is not by works that we are saved, but by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. You claim to trust Christ completely, yet you advocate doing things in hopes of passing some test. That's a very odd position for a Christian to take.

Soul Searcher · Dec 16, 2007

Giver said:
You know dont you that your opinion is right in line with most of the people in the word? That in and of its self should scare you.

If that is the case then it only shows that perhaps the world gets it right now and then.

The world is always wrong about God, and his laws. The only way to learn the truth is to go to Jesus personally and ask him.

First of all we are both part of the world so all you are really saying here is that you are wrong and so am I. As for going to Jesus and personally asking him, this of course can not be done so it is nothing more than gibberish.

No matter what you think you know you have placed your religion above other people and you seem to think that you have the right answer and everyone else is wrong which means you also place your understanding above everyone else but simple common sense will show you that you have in fact made an error as yoru rules will allow the suffering of many to prevent the suffering of one as the rule and this rule is far from being moraly sound.

GenemZ · Dec 16, 2007

Giver said:
The world is always wrong about God, and his laws. The only way to learn the truth is to go to Jesus personally and ask him.

Throw out your Bible. You got a direct line. Why need the Bible?

John 10:11-12a (New International Version)

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep.

So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away."

One reason we have the Word of God in writing is to catch those who claim to hear God in their lies. That is why God made SURE to place all we need to know in writing! If it does not agree?

The lie will not make you free.

One will become a slave to his own preferred deception. He must put on blinders to claim he has the light.

And, I hope and pray that if your loved ones are ever in harms way, that someone else who possesses common sense (if they are an unbeliever)- or, has sound doctrine (if they are a believer) - will be nearby to help to protect them.

One second......

Jesus just spoke to me.

He said you believe a lie.

He said your Jesus is a false Jesus.

Do you believe my Jesus?

(should I believe yours?)

LLWHA · Dec 17, 2007

tqpix said:
Then why did Moses kill an Egyptian for mistreating a Jew?

There were no people called Jews when Moses' did this.

It was someone from one of the Tribes or half Tribes of Israel.

LLWHA · Dec 17, 2007

Soul Searcher said:
If all killers were killed we would be extinct as a race.

No we wouldn't.

I think that murders are to be executed.

If you Obey God and do this execution you are not a murderer or really a killer.

You are part of a group that executes God Judgment.

lighthousekid · Dec 17, 2007

LLWHA said:
No we wouldn't.

I think that murders are to be executed.

If you Obey God and do this execution you are not a murderer or really a killer.

You are part of a group that executes God Judgment.

God does not require the death penalty.

Jet_A_Jockey · Dec 17, 2007

Giver said:
The world is always wrong about God, and his laws. The only way to learn the truth is to go to Jesus personally and ask him.

Hello Giver,
And how do we know it is Jesus that answers our question? We parallel it with scripture.

With all due respect I think you've missed one of the most important examples set by Christ in regards to the law. For example, when His disciples gathered and ate on the sabbath. Also again when He was asked if He'd heal someone on the sabbath. He regarded a necessity to sustenance of human life over that of the law.

That being said, it is permissible to defend the helpless, and would be a greater sin to do nothing and stand idly by expecting God to handle it.

IamRedeemed · Dec 17, 2007

Jet_A_Jockey said:
Hello Giver,
And how do we know it is Jesus that answers our question? We parallel it with scripture.

With all due respect I think you've missed one of the most important examples set by Christ in regards to the law. For example, when His disciples gathered and ate on the sabbath. Also again when He was asked if He'd heal someone on the sabbath. He regarded a necessity to sustenance of human life over that of the law.

That being said, it is permissible to defend the helpless, and would be a greater sin to do nothing and stand idly by expecting God to handle it.

Zecryphon · Dec 17, 2007

lighthousekid said:
God does not require the death penalty.

Yes He does. Look at the sacrificial system that was in place in the OT for the covering of sins. Look at Christ's crucifixion in the NT. God requires that blood be shed to pay the penalty for sin.

tapero · Dec 17, 2007

As we do not live under any old testament law, and Jesus died for our sins, has nothing to do with the death penalty.

Death in Leviticus for sins committed was to the Hebrews alone. We do not have the temple nor are we Hebrews, many of us, and leviticus was not given us. Nor is it for today.

And people were not killed by God in the OT for taking a life, such as Moses, and others.

Death penalty is a matter of the conscience, meaning that if one feels it is right then they do so and if one feels it is wrong they do so. Hence they can vote in such a manner.

God doesn't require any such thing. We are not of this world, nor are we to make it our world.

America is not a Christian land, nor are we to make it a Christian land nor are well called to do so. The death penalty would not make it a christian land for those who think it would.

We are called to be lights in the world and to spread the gospel.

Death will occur in judgment..otherwise, it's up to individuals as to how they feel on the topic and they can vote their feelings on it. It is not a requirement of God in the least.

There are no requirements of God, there are commandments, and we are free to do or not do as commanded as God is Almighty God and did not fear to give us free will. As Christians we seek to do as commanded in the nt, and we also fail as well.

If death penalty were required by God, then all people who have hated and murdered in their heart, would be struck down by God.

IamRedeemed · Dec 17, 2007

I know we are talking about capital punishment on earth but when I read your
statement I immediately thought of Romans 6:23, and how the death penalty is
still in effect for those of us not washed in the blood of Jesus. As those not
washed in the blood of Jesus having been redeemed will be judged and receive
as sentence the death penalty from God.

Of course that is the second death and much more final than the death of
our bodies here on earth.

Just a thought......

lighthousekid said:
God does not require the death penalty.

IamRedeemed · Dec 17, 2007

I agree with most everything said here.

tapero said:
As we do not live under any old testament law, and Jesus died for our sins, has nothing to do with the death penalty.

Death in Leviticus for sins committed was to the Hebrews alone. We do not have the temple nor are we Hebrews, many of us, and leviticus was not given us. Nor is it for today.

And people were not killed by God in the OT for taking a life, such as Moses, and others.

Death penalty is a matter of the conscience, meaning that if one feels it is right then they do so and if one feels it is wrong they do so. Hence they can vote in such a manner.

God doesn't require any such thing. We are not of this world, nor are we to make it our world.

America is not a Christian land, nor are we to make it a Christian land nor are well called to do so. The death penalty would not make it a christian land for those who think it would.

We are called to be lights in the world and to spread the gospel.

Death will occur in judgment..otherwise, it's up to individuals as to how they feel on the topic and they can vote their feelings on it. It is not a requirement of God in the least.

There are no requirements of God, there are commandments, and we are free to do or not do as commanded as God is Almighty God and did not fear to give us free will. As Christians we seek to do as commanded in the nt, and we also fail as well.

If death penalty were required by God, then all people who have hated and murdered in their heart, would be struck down by God.

Zecryphon · Dec 17, 2007

tapero said:
As we do not live under any old testament law, and Jesus died for our sins, has nothing to do with the death penalty.

Death in Leviticus for sins committed was to the Hebrews alone. We do not have the temple nor are we Hebrews, many of us, and leviticus was not given us. Nor is it for today.

And people were not killed by God in the OT for taking a life, such as Moses, and others.

Death penalty is a matter of the conscience, meaning that if one feels it is right then they do so and if one feels it is wrong they do so. Hence they can vote in such a manner.

God doesn't require any such thing. We are not of this world, nor are we to make it our world.

America is not a Christian land, nor are we to make it a Christian land nor are well called to do so. The death penalty would not make it a christian land for those who think it would.

We are called to be lights in the world and to spread the gospel.

Death will occur in judgment..otherwise, it's up to individuals as to how they feel on the topic and they can vote their feelings on it. It is not a requirement of God in the least.

There are no requirements of God, there are commandments, and we are free to do or not do as commanded as God is Almighty God and did not fear to give us free will. As Christians we seek to do as commanded in the nt, and we also fail as well.

If death penalty were required by God, then all people who have hated and murdered in their heart, would be struck down by God.

"As we do not live under any old testament law, and Jesus died for our sins, has nothing to do with the death penalty."

Wrong. Read his statement again. He said that God does not require the death penalty. For that statement to be true, you would have to believe that God has changed His stance on the death penalty after Jesus died for our sins. God does not change, that is one of His attributes. He is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow.

"And people were not killed by God in the OT for taking a life, such as Moses, and others."

Yeah, God never wiped out entire cities of people who lived in opposition to Him, right. LOL

"Death penalty is a matter of the conscience, meaning that if one feels it is right then they do so and if one feels it is wrong they do so. Hence they can vote in such a manner."

So people decide for themselves that which is right and wrong?

"God doesn't require any such thing. We are not of this world, nor are we to make it our world."

We are to be in this world, but not of it. Since we are to be in this world and Jesus gave us that command as part of Matthew 28:19-20, when he told his disciples to go into the world to spread the gospel.

Mat 28:19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,Mat 28:20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

How can we make disciples of all nations if we are not to be in the world? Now take a look at 1 Peter 2:13-15.

1Pe 2:13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 1Pe 2:14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 1Pe 2:15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people.

The study notes in my Bible for these verses are:

"The meaning of "submit" in the Greek is "to order oneself under, or according to, a given relationship" or "to live acccording to the governmental order." Clearly here the notion of submitting to the government is secondary to that of obeying God and doing his will."

In the state of Arizona I have been given the right to defend myself against a lethal threat. By doing so I am submitting myself to the government and thus obeying and honoring God. I hope I never have to defend myself to the point of taking a life, but I am prepared to do so, if need be. There are people who disagree with this and that's fine, but I think people take it too far, as Giver has, by saying that if you offer the wicked man resistance you are not a true sheep or follower of God.

"America is not a Christian land, nor are we to make it a Christian land nor are well called to do so."

Even though, the majority of the founding fathers were Christians, and founded this nation upon Christian principles, I do agree with you. The government has not established Christianity as the national religion of the USA.

"The death penalty would not make it a christian land for those who think it would."

I never said this. My statement was directed at God's character. God did demand the death penalty in the past and there's no reason to think He has changed His mind on the matter.

"Death will occur in judgment..otherwise, it's up to individuals as to how they feel on the topic and they can vote their feelings on it. It is not a requirement of God in the least."

Yes it is. For the wages of sin is what? Death. It is appointed to man to die once and then judgment. God definitely requires death. The scriptures also mention a second death after judgment for those who have not trusted in Christ Jesus for salvation. So death has not been done away with, as you seem to be suggesting. You're basically saying that since Jesus died for our sins God no longer requires death and will not give it as a punishment. That's putting limits on God. Aren't you the one who's all about not putting God in a box? All who sin to this day, are sentenced to death by God. The only way for people to escape that death by God, is to repent of their sins and have faith in Christ Jesus for salvation and eternal life.

"There are no requirements of God, there are commandments,"

What's the difference? Is a commandment not a requirement set by God for us and what we are to do as followers of Christ?

"and we are free to do or not do as commanded as God is Almighty God and did not fear to give us free will. As Christians we seek to do as commanded in the nt, and we also fail as well."

We also seek to keep the 10 Commandments which are found in the OT.

"If death penalty were required by God, then all people who have hated and murdered in their heart, would be struck down by God."

How do you know they're not?

[All scripture quotations and study notes from the Archaeological Bible NIV by Zondervan Publishing]

We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.

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Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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