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We are in the Tribulation now, aren't we?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Susan, Aug 6, 2002.

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Don't know

  4. Don't care (if you voted this you need to see if you are indeed right with God)

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  1. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    Who cares abt the GT! Christians will be raptured out of the earth by then.

    God has not appointed us unto wrath.

    1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    all hell can and will break lose, but only when the salt of the earth (which preserves) is removed.
  2. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    Jesus cares that we know everything that must come before he comes:

    "Take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23);

    "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand" (Revelation 1:1-3).

    Note that no scripture promises us a rapture before the tribulation. Jesus says he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and Paul says Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). We Christians must go through the coming tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13).


    Note that we can be in the tribulation without being appointed to God's wrath, for during the tribulation nobody in heaven says God's wrath "is come" until near the end of the tribulation, after the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15, 18), in the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 15:1; Revelation 16), and none of the 7 vials are poured out on those of us who have obtained salvation; I believe we are even blessed at the 6th vial (Revelation 16:15), that we might endure to the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12), which is the day I believe Jesus will come back (Revelation 19).

    I think it's important to make this distinction because many people -- including many Christians -- are going to be blaming God for everything bad that happens to them in the tribulation; they're going to be saying that God is the one causing all of their suffering, when in reality it will be Satan, evil men, and natural disasters that are causing it.

    Satan is going to try to use the suffering of the tribulation to turn people -- even us Christians -- away from God, to get us to believe that God is really a cruel and unjust tyrant who only wants mankind to suffer and be tortured, while Satan is the one trying to help us. We need to be able to say, no, this suffering is not from God, but from evil and natural sources, just as we Christians have always had to suffer in wars, famines, plagues, persecutions, and natural disasters throughout history, from the beginning of the church down until this day.

    In the pre-trib view, will those who "obtain salvation" in the tribulation be "appointed to wrath?" Aren't being "appointed to wrath" and "obtaining salvation" mutually exclusive?

    "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:9).
  3. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    I care, there are people who call themselves christians who will still be here. I told God that if there was anything I could do to help them that I would be willing to go into the great tribulation. He told me that there will be nothing I can do to help. They will go into the tribulation because they have refused the message that He is delivering though us. During that time, God will have a different witness and testimony. The world will return to being under the law, which is exactly what they want. There will not be grace on earth for 7 years. The Spirit of Grace is in us. So you have to remove the Bride if the Spirit of grace is removed from the world. Also, God can not pour out His wrath if we are still in the world.

    Any help we have to offer, any good that we are going to do, we need to do before the rapture.  
  4. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    Agreed JohnR7, I have in-laws who are not saved yet. i was refering more to Christians who are obessesed abt the GT and who the anti-Christ is, his mark etc - a lot of speculation.
  5. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    How could we Christians who will be in the tribulation after the cross and after Pentecost (i.e. not OT) who have washed our "robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14) and have "the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12) and are "in the Lord" (Revelation 14:13) not be in his grace?

    Note that there are no Christians outside of the bride, for all believers form a single body (Ephesians 4:4-6), which is the bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:30-32). We Christians who will be in the tribulation are Christians after the cross and after Pentecost, saved in no different way than Christians who have died or will die before the tribulation. Many of us will be slain for the word of God and cry out to the Lord (Revelation 6:9-10); we will have washed our robes in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14); we will have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Revelation 12:17) and the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12) and will be in the Lord (Revelation 14:13); if we die, we will enter into heaven itself (Revelation 15:2); some of us will be beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and we will all live and reign with Christ (Revelation 20:4).

    Note that just as God didn't have to rapture Noah or Lot into heaven to keep them from his wrath, so he won't have to rapture us into heaven to keep us from his wrath.

    Noah was commanded to make extensive preparations on the earth in order to avoid God's wrath; he had to build a gigantic ark 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 4 1/2 stories high (Genesis 6:15), and he had to store up enough food to keep himself, 7 others in his family (Genesis 7:7), and every kind of animal alive in the ark (Genesis 6:19) for the 12 months and 10 days they would all remain in the ark (Genesis 7:11, 8:13-17) and until they could grow more food on the destroyed earth after the flood.

    And Lot was greatly affected by the judgment on Sodom: he had to flee immediately and leave behind everything he owned; he even lost his wife; and he went to go live in a cave (Genesis 19:30).

    Similarly, I believe we should all be ready to flee to "a place prepared" in the mountains or "the wilderness" (Revelation 12:6, 14) when we see the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15-20), for at that time the Antichrist will be given power in all nations to persecute and kill any Christians he can find (Revelation 13:7-10; 14:12-13), and because Jesus said we must flee without returning to our homes or taking anything out of them (Matthew 24:17-18), the place we flee to must be completely prepared before the abomination of desolation.

    I believe Isaiah 26:20-21 could be a command to those of us Christians still alive on the earth right before the 7 vials of God's wrath are poured out (Revelation 16). The 7 vials aren't directed at us Christians, and if we have underground bunkers with fresh water, they need not affect us in any way. I think our and our families' entering our "chambers" before the 7 vials and "shutting the doors" about us (Isaiah 26:20-21) could protect us in a way like Noah and his family's entering the ark before the flood and the "shutting" of "the door of the ark" protected them (Genesis 6:16, 7:16).
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