Water baptism

[bob96]

So what if someone wants to get baptized 3 months later for personal reasons?


There are plenty of verses that do not mention baptism..



Acts 5:14 And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,


Acts 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number who believed turned to the Lord.


Acts 11:24 for he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord.


Acts 13:12 Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had occurred, for he was astonished at the teaching of the Lord.

Acts
13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14:1 Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed.

They went back, and still no water baptism..

14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 16:5 So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and they increased in numbers daily.

Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.

Acts 17:12 Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men

Acts 17:34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

Acts 19:18 Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices.

The question is "if baptism is so important, then why isn’t it mentioned in every single passage about conversion?"

The reason is, there is no point. It is mentioned at the start of acts in chapter 2:38.
This language technique is synecdoche - we refer to a part which represents the whole.

Read all about it here: bebaptized[dot]org/important.htm

It is not required to mention baptism in every salvation passage. It is a given.

 

[bob96]

All of the text where they were baptized, it shows baptism AFTER conversion..after...

Are you referring to the fact that they believed? Believing alone doesn't save anyone.

In Acts 2:38, the people were cut to the heart "Brothers, what shall we do?"
They had just learned that they murdered God's son.

They believed at this point. If they were saved at this point, why were they so alarmed?

James 2:9 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

There is no need to ask the question "Brothers, what shall we do?" if they were already saved. They needed an answer to take their sins away.

The "answer" was that they needed a clear conscience. This "answer" can be found in 1 Peter 3:21. "the answer of a good conscience toward God." (American King James Version)

If you have an alternative explanation for why they were so alarmed and had to ask "Brothers, what shall we do?" then please share it.

 

[Frogster]

Are you referring to the fact that they believed? Believing alone doesn't save anyone.

In Acts 2:38, the people were cut to the heart "Brothers, what shall we do?"
They had just learned that they murdered God's son.

They believed at this point. If they were saved at this point, why were they so alarmed?

James 2:9 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

There is no need to ask the question "Brothers, what shall we do?" if they were already saved. They needed an answer to take their sins away.

The "answer" was that they needed a clear conscience. This "answer" can be found in 1 Peter 3:21. "the answer of a good conscience toward God." (American King James Version)

If you have an alternative explanation for why they were so alarmed and had to ask "Brothers, what shall we do?" then please share it.

alrighty, so far we see that it was not private with the jailor, unless we think they were fumbling around in the dark, in the water.

Now, I said that in all of the accounts, where baptizm is mentioned it was clearly after salvtion, or as numerous texts show, it was not even mentioned.

So until you can give a clear definitive rebuttal, this one here does not hold "water".


It is common sense, one has to believe to repent, and one has to be saved, to get water baptized. You seem to have it backwards.

Gimmie a few examples that show contrary, i await...

Thanks, frog.

ps, red above, a good conscience, that only happens after it is washed by the blood, after salvation...


Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.



Peter mentioned the blood, as ransomed, not baptism, and the blemish word, is clearly about the cross, the lamb, so you might not want to try to hang you whole argument on a verse that has the symbol word in it, while ignoring the vast whole of NT theology.


1 Peter 1:18 knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

 

[Alithis]

in all this i'd have to self question... Do my words hinder others from obedience and cause a stumbling block ...Or do they build up the faith of others and encourage obedience ?

if your a believer in the lord Jesus.. go get baptized in water folks as a public witness and testament to your faith .. the lord did it and he said .. follow me ..

 

[ByTheSpirit]

in all this i'd have to self question... Do my words hinder others from obedience and cause a stumbling block ...Or do they build up the faith of others and encourage obedience ?

if your a believer in the lord Jesus.. go get baptized in water folks as a public witness and testament to your faith .. the lord did it and he said .. follow me ..

Thats what Im saying... argue over meaning all you want, just get baptized right away. The church of Acts did, no one can deny that. If thats how they did it we should too. Then discuss the meaning, just get baptized asap

 

[Frogster]

duplicate.

 

[Frogster]

Thats what Im saying... argue over meaning all you want, just get baptized right away. The church of Acts did, no one can deny that. If thats how they did it we should too. Then discuss the meaning, just get baptized asap

is there an emergency?

I asked where in the text, it shows where believers need this act, in light of what they received at conversion, and no one will say.

If for example the Bible said saved believers need the water emersion, to go to heaven, to be sealed, to be washed in the blood, then fine, emergency mode prevails, but so far, no one has posted anything about saved believers receiving more, than they did at conversion.

In other words, what is left, that was not done at conversion?

 

[Frogster]

in all this i'd have to self question... Do my words hinder others from obedience and cause a stumbling block ...Or do they build up the faith of others and encourage obedience ?

if your a believer in the lord Jesus.. go get baptized in water folks as a public witness and testament to your faith .. the lord did it and he said .. follow me ..

Jesus was a stumbling block. Besides, this is a debate thread, where ideas are talked about, actually there is alot of baptism bondage that goes around, now that is a stumbling block when people rank it as one must be baptized to be saved, however said, overtly or covertly, by innuendo, or clever wordage.

 

[Alithis]

Jesus was a stumbling block. Besides, this is a debate thread, where ideas are talked about, actually there is alot of baptism bondage that goes around, now that is a stumbling block when people rank it as one must be baptized to be saved, however said, overtly or covertly, by innuendo, or clever wordage.

correction .. discussion thread

and i have overtly simplified the topic ... the lord Jesus said "follow me" .. and he went and got water baptized .. so , i went and got water baptized also..

i meant nothing more .. carry on

 

[Frogster]

correction .. discussion thread

and i have overtly simplified the topic ... the lord Jesus said "follow me" .. and he went and got water baptized .. so , i went and got water baptized also..

i meant nothing more .. carry on

debate is allowed on a discussion thread.

 

[bob96]

Now, I said that in all of the accounts, where baptizm is mentioned it was clearly after salvtion, or as numerous texts show, it was not even mentioned.

It seems that your "proof" that baptism always came after salvation, is that they believed first, and were then baptised. That isn't a proof, it's just the logical order of events. You cannot be baptised BEFORE believing. Please provide a single verse that shows salvation before baptism.

In reference to the following:

Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

"purify our conscience" is talking about the point at which our sins are forgiven, and happens through the blood of Christ. You don't have a clean conscience before your sins are forgiven. Do you agree with this statement?

 

[probinson]

and i have overtly simplified the topic ... the lord Jesus said "follow me" .. and he went and got water baptized .. so , i went and got water baptized also..

It really is that simple.

This discussion reminds me of my children. I tell them to go get ready for bed. They sit there. I tell them again, go get ready for bed. They ask, "Why?" I tell them, "Because I said so".

That's how simple this discussion should be. Saying it's OK to not get baptized is tantamount to saying it's OK to disobey Jesus (but only in this instance, of course. )

 

[Frogster]

It seems that your "proof" that baptism always came after salvation, is that they believed first, and were then baptised. That isn't a proof, it's just the logical order of events. You cannot be baptised BEFORE believing. Please provide a single verse that shows salvation before baptism.

In reference to the following:

Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

"purify our conscience" is talking about the point at which our sins are forgiven, and happens through the blood of Christ. You don't have a clean conscience before your sins are forgiven. Do you agree with this statement?

you are just repeating what i said, baptism comes after conversion, and the blood cleansing is done at conversion. If this is you way of just seeing that I am correct, fine.

red above, yes, my order is correct, yours was not.

I was the one who quoted Heb 9:14...

Anyway Bob, glad you are now seeing it correctly, thanks, frog.

 

[bob96]

in all this i'd have to self question... Do my words hinder others from obedience and cause a stumbling block ...Or do they build up the faith of others and encourage obedience ?

if your a believer in the lord Jesus.. go get baptized in water folks as a public witness and testament to your faith .. the lord did it and he said .. follow me ..

Unfortunately, the promoters of Luthers "faith only" doctrine are preventing untold numbers of believers from ever being baptized, as they see it something that you should probably do at some point, but is completely optional.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

is there an emergency?

I asked where in the text, it shows where believers need this act, in light of what they received at conversion, and no one will say.

If for example the Bible said saved believers need the water emersion, to go to heaven, to be sealed, to be washed in the blood, then fine, emergency mode prevails, but so far, no one has posted anything about saved believers receiving more, than they did at conversion.

In other words, what is left, that was not done at conversion?

You've already been shown plenty of places where believers were baptized IMMEDIATELY at conversion.

 

[Frogster]

You've already been shown plenty of places where believers were baptized IMMEDIATELY at conversion.

and you have been shown where it is not mentioned at conversions.

You also never answered where I asked what you meant by a "part" of salvation.

and you not others, have given text, that shows what the saved person receives from water baptism, after conversion.

I mean really, asaap you say, well, others could ask..

"oh my, what am i missing, did i miss something at conversion?"

Yet, you would have no answer for them.

 

[Frogster]

Unfortunately, the promoters of Luthers "faith only" doctrine are preventing untold numbers of believers from ever being baptized, as they see it something that you should probably do at some point, but is completely optional.

naaaa..just asking where it shows believers miss something at conversion, as other try to fuse it to our salvation, or mandate it, in many different ways.

It is faith only...even this post alludes to the fact, that one needs water baptism, you prove my point.

 

[Alithis]

Unfortunately, the promoters of Luthers "faith only" doctrine are preventing untold numbers of believers from ever being baptized, as they see it something that you should probably do at some point, but is completely optional.

oh ..im into faith only .. i just believe the evidence of faith is obedience

 

[Frogster]

oh ..im into faith only .. i just believe the evidence of faith is obedience

to the faith..to...

 

[Alithis]

to the faith..to...

oh ..wait ..huh? what ?

obedience to faith .??.obedience of faith .. ??

im confused lol ..

i meant we are saved by faith and as a result of that .. we obey .hence obedience is evidence that we truly walk in faith