Water baptism

[Frogster]

Sure, Romans 9 - confess with you mouth and believe in your heart and you will be saved.


Aaah ... finally.
Baptism in itself is important.
The word (which is alive [Lutherans are very literal]) combines with water and saves you.
It does not save you by water, but by water and the word.

Roman Catholics call it Holy Water. It is not holy water.

It is water (which we were commanded to use) and the Word (which gives life and saves)

"We baptize you in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. "

1PE 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ ...

That is why we confess during baptism.

Then you can add Romans 6 in literal way and the Bible finally makes plain literal sense.

But a testimony is after salvation, like baptism.

 

[Frogster]

Sure, Romans 9 - confess with you mouth and believe in your heart and you will be saved.


Aaah ... finally.
Baptism in itself is important.
The word (which is alive [Lutherans are very literal]) combines with water and saves you.
It does not save you by water, but by water and the word.

Roman Catholics call it Holy Water. It is not holy water.

It is water (which we were commanded to use) and the Word (which gives life and saves)

"We baptize you in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. "

1PE 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ ...

That is why we confess during baptism.

Then you can add Romans 6 in literal way and the Bible finally makes plain literal sense.

interesting, what do you think of the fact that Peter uses the symbolizes word?

 

[Edial]

but Peter meant our baptism, in a general sense, our faith, our belief..

There was John's, then there is ours.

Yes, our baptism used in a general sense saves, our baptism is about Christ, we are justified by faith, and that is it.

You can see by the verse that peter is being general about the word.


Just this....Peter said it..


18 knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

It is like if one asked..

"whose baptism save, John's or ours?"


I would say ours, but that does not mean baptism saves, it is just a ways of saying our faith, our belief, etc..

If it "just a ways of saying our faith, our belief, etc.." why not say "our faith, our belief, etc.."?
Entire Christendom practices water baptism as a command.
Nothing optional nor symbolic about it.

It has it's place and has specific spiritual effects to our spiritual being.

Water baptism is real.

 

[Frogster]

If it "just a ways of saying our faith, our belief, etc.." why not say "our faith, our belief, etc.."?
Entire Christendom practices water baptism as a command.
Nothing optional nor symbolic about it.

It has it's place and has specific spiritual effects to our spiritual being.

Water baptism is real.

ok, i just was wondering why he said symbolic.

cough..cough...

 

[Frogster]

In other words, look at what peter said prior..


18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,


That is what brought us to God, same as from Paul..


all i am saying is that peter was using your posted verse in a general sense, but he was specific in verse 18 above, and the one about being ransomed by the blood, and that is majority of thought conveyed by them, the baptism word here is a general meaning, it does say symbolic, i can't help that..

ol, nighty night..see you guys tomorrow..

 

[Edial]

In other words, look at what peter said prior..


18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,


That is what brought us to God, same as from Paul..


all i am saying is that peter was using your posted verse in a general sense, but he was specific in verse 18 above, and the one about being ransomed by the blood, and that is majority of thought conveyed by them, the baptism word here is a general meaning, it does say symbolic, i can't help that..

ol, nighty night..see you guys tomorrow..

 

[ByTheSpirit]

You can probably see a type of baptism in the Exodus as well.

The blood delivered the people from death.

The water delivered them from sin (represented by the Egyptians).

Salvation has a whole host of meanings after all, as Derek Prince said, it really means COMPLETE DELIVERANCE of the whole being.

Romans 8:2 ESV

For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Just a thought...

 

[Frogster]

Sorry Ed, my head just hit the pillow, and this came to mind.

You said baptism is real. I want to first say i respect everyone's subjective experience, i never mess with that, i try to be objective here on the forum, and textus frogseptus.

Ok, real?

Most get baptized days, weeks, or months after conversion...(some never do). They are now saved, past the conversion experience, they are born again, raised, cleansed, in union with Christ.

Ok, scripturally, what is real about the water emersion, after one is saved?

Again, I understand people have feelings, or convictions, subjective views, experiences, etc, fine.

But after conversion, scripturally what is real or what happens to us, after conversion.

Again, the other things were done at conversion, cleansed, etc..

What now, what is real objectively scripturally?


ok, this time that is it, nighty night..

 

[Frogster]

You can probably see a type of baptism in the Exodus as well.

The blood delivered the people from death.

The water delivered them from sin (represented by the Egyptians).
Salvation has a whole host of meanings after all, as Derek Prince said, it really means COMPLETE DELIVERANCE of the whole being.

Romans 8:2 ESV

For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Just a thought...

and the baptism into moses was symbolic..peter was right also...

now that you must agree with me on...

 

[bob96]

I said testimony, your choice of "show", is setting me up in a negative manner.

Well, is it a type of testimony or not?

I had no intent by using the word "show". I was trying to get at your meaning.

The definition of testimony is: "a public recounting of a religious conversion or experience."

How can a private testimony be a testimony at all?

The jailer was baptised in front of Paul, Silas and his family in the early hours of the morning. It was a highly secretive affair. This was not public, and not a testimony.

So if baptism is not a testimony to others, then what is it's purpose?

 

[bob96]

Good points.

There is no command in the Bible that states that baptism should be performed publicly or privately. If the purpose was a public testimony, you'd think the Bible would have mentioned the fact. So baptism must have another purpose.

 

[bob96]

the night word could mean after dinner, and it could have still been light out, yes summer..

Every translation translates the word as midnight, or the middle of the night.
biblehub[dot]com/parallel/acts/16-25.htm

The jailer and his family were baptised privately in the early hours of the morning.

 

[bob96]

How come Phil did not raise the baptism event first, if it were so needed?

He needed to hear the gospel (the good news) first.
In Acts 2, Peter preached the Bad News - you are sinners and are going to hell.

The people were cut to the heart "Brothers, what shall we do!!??" Notice that they well and truly believed at this point. They were desperate for an answer to this issue of sin.

Peter then told them the good news - how to have their sins forgiven! "Repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sins".

(It doesn't get clearer than that - does you bible say something else? Do you have a translation that reads "Repent and be baptised because your sins have been forgiven")?

Note the urgency! You get baptised as soon as you find out the truth after you have come to faith and believed the good news.

With the jailer "immediately he and all his household were baptized." Acts 16:33.

The Ethiopian immediately after hearing the good news “See, here is water! What hinders me from being baptized!?”

As stated before, the longest time between believing and being baptised was three days - and Paul had some serious repenting to do!

 

[Frogster]

I had no intent by using the word "show". I was trying to get at your meaning.

The definition of testimony is: "a public recounting of a religious conversion or experience."

How can a private testimony be a testimony at all?

The jailer was baptised in front of Paul, Silas and his family in the early hours of the morning. It was a highly secretive affair. This was not public, and not a testimony.

So if baptism is not a testimony to others, then what is it's purpose?

lol..read abve, that is what I am trying to find out!

Tell ya what, answer this question..help the lowly lil ole frog..



Most get baptized days, weeks, or months after conversion...(some never do). They are now saved, past the conversion experience, they are born again, raised, cleansed, in union with Christ.

Ok, scripturally, what is the purpose, or importance about the water emersion, after one is saved?


really, i would like to hear, but please keep it short and sweet..thx.

 

[Frogster]

There is no command in the Bible that states that baptism should be performed publicly or privately. If the purpose was a public testimony, you'd think the Bible would have mentioned the fact. So baptism must have another purpose.

Well, again, what is the prupose when a saved person gets baptized?

 

[Frogster]

He needed to hear the gospel (the good news) first.
In Acts 2, Peter preached the Bad News - you are sinners and are going to hell.

The people were cut to the heart "Brothers, what shall we do!!??" Notice that they well and truly believed at this point. They were desperate for an answer to this issue of sin.

Peter then told them the good news - how to have their sins forgiven! "Repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sins".

(It doesn't get clearer than that - does you bible say something else? Do you have a translation that reads "Repent and be baptised because your sins have been forgiven")?

Note the urgency! You get baptised as soon as you find out the truth after you have come to faith and believed the good news.

With the jailer "immediately he and all his household were baptized." Acts 16:33.

The Ethiopian immediately after hearing the good news “See, here is water! What hinders me from being baptized!?”

As stated before, the longest time between believing and being baptised was three days - and Paul had some serious repenting to do!

So what if someone wants to get baptized 3 months later for personal reasons?


There are plenty of verses that do not mention baptism..



Acts 5:14 And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,


Acts 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number who believed turned to the Lord.


Acts 11:24 for he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord.


Acts 13:12 Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had occurred, for he was astonished at the teaching of the Lord.

Acts
13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14:1 Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed.

They went back, and still no water baptism..

14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 16:5 So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and they increased in numbers daily.

Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.

Acts 17:12 Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men

Acts 17:34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

Acts 19:18 Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices.

 

[Frogster]

Every translation translates the word as midnight, or the middle of the night.
biblehub[dot]com/parallel/acts/16-25.htm

The jailer and his family were baptised privately in the early hours of the morning.

How do you know it was private, they were not inside. They must have had torches, so all of the neighbors could see...hehehehe

are we to think they were all fumbling around in the dark?

16:34 Then he brought them up into his house and set food before them. And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God.

 

[Frogster]

This better..Bob!

- have faith/believe,
- repent,
- saved.
- get baptised,

Even some of the verses you quoted in your previous post, shows it.

To repent, one must be a believer first..then water baptized..


Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Jailor..he had to be a believer first..that is the order, I am using your verses too.


” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family.


The eunuch too...the we got a guy named Paul..saved then baptized.


soooooo...again, all of the accounts show the proper order... Daved, THEN water emersion...

alrighty now...

 

[Edial]

So what if someone wants to get baptized 3 months later for personal reasons?


There are plenty of verses that do not mention baptism..



Acts 5:14 And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,


Acts 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number who believed turned to the Lord.


Acts 11:24 for he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord.


Acts 13:12 Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had occurred, for he was astonished at the teaching of the Lord.

Acts
13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14:1 Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed.

They went back, and still no water baptism..

14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 16:5 So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and they increased in numbers daily.

Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.

Acts 17:12 Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men

Acts 17:34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

Acts 19:18 Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices.

Because mentioning baptism in each instant is like mentioning I put my shoes on when I go out.
I just went out (assuming I have the shoes put on ).

At that time was like ... how could you NOT be baptized.
Is everything OK with you? something wrong with your head? Need to see a doctor?

Only lately baptism became "an option" ... because now we really, really understand the Bible ... and we no longer do these archaic things, because, because, well, just because we have iPod and our faith is much smarter than theirs.

 

[Frogster]

Because mentioning baptism in each instant is like mentioning I put my shoes on when I go out.
I just went out (assuming I have the shoes put on ).

At that time was like ... how could you NOT be baptized.
Is everything OK with you? something wrong with your head? Need to see a doctor?

Only lately baptism became "an option" ... because now we really, really understand the Bible ... and we no longer do these archaic things, because, because, well, just because we have iPod and our faith is much smarter than theirs.

I did ask you a goodie of a question though, maybe you will get to it.

besides, so far the symbol word was a bombshell, and still, it does not mention water in quite a few verses, it is not like I just posted one verse.