water baptism

[ByTheSpirit]

What is the significance of water baptism to Wesleyans? Please explain the "sacrament" terminology to me. What does that mean?

 

[Reverend Greg]

A sacrament for Wesleyans would involve three things: an earthly element (water); a command instituted by Christ (go into all the world, baptizing in the name of the Father, son, Holy Ghost); and the promise of the forgiveness of sin (repent and be baptized, in the name of christ, for the forgiveness of sins).

 

[circuitrider]

Good description Reverend Greg.

Just out of curiosity onlybygrace84 , why did you call it "water baptism." It seems a little redundant since water is what everyone is baptized in.

 

[GraceSeeker]

All sacraments are signs, using external elements like water, of something that God does in the inside.

BTW, I will probably get some flak from a few for this because we like to talk about sacraments as "means of grace", but I would even go so far as to suggest that the grace which the sacrament celebrates is not dependent on the sacrament. That is, God washes us free from sin prior to the application of water. He did that long ago when Jesus paid the price, taking away our sins, on the cross.

Also, specifically with regard to baptism. I also see it more as a sign of God's prevenient grace than of his saving or justifying grace. Though it does also mean that God is saying to us, "You're alright with me kid." (God likes to impersonate Humphrey Bogart.)

 

[circuitrider]

All sacraments are signs, using external elements like water, of something that God does in the inside.

BTW, I will probably get some flak from a few for this because we like to talk about sacraments as "means of grace", but I would even go so far as to suggest that the grace which the sacrament celebrates is not dependent on the sacrament. That is, God washes us free from sin prior to the application of water. He did that long ago when Jesus paid the price, taking away our sins, on the cross.

Also, specifically with regard to baptism. I also see it more as a sign of God's prevenient grace than of his saving or justifying grace. Though it does also mean that God is saying to us, "You're alright with me kid." (God likes to impersonate Humphrey Bogart.)

No flack from me GraceSeeker. Though I would argue that additional grace is also received in the sacrament. I don't believe grace is a one time thing that can only be applied once but that grace is continualy applied and supplied in our lives.

 

[GraceSeeker]

No flack from me GraceSeeker. Though I would argue that additional grace is also received in the sacrament. I don't believe grace is a one time thing that can only be applied once but that grace is continualy applied and supplied in our lives.

For sure grace is more like an ever flowing fountain than a water balloon.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Have any of you ever considered though that baptism is a work which demonstrates our faith? You know James 2:14-26... Not that baptism is what saves us, its not. Rather, the demonstration of our faith by entering the baptismal waters in repentance, calling upon the name of Jesus in so doing we are saved (Acts 2:38-39, 22:16) Not trying to debate I genuinely want to know Wesleyan position on this as I am still considering attending a Wesleyan church.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

Its a sign of rebirth.

 

[circuitrider]

Have any of you ever considered though that baptism is a work which demonstrates our faith? You know James 2:14-26... Not that baptism is what saves us, its not. Rather, the demonstration of our faith by entering the baptismal waters in repentance, calling upon the name of Jesus in so doing we are saved (Acts 2:38-39, 22:16) Not trying to debate I genuinely want to know Wesleyan position on this as I am still considering attending a Wesleyan church.

Baptism is not a demonstration of our faith in our theology. It is a demonstration of God's grace. Most United Methodists are baptized as infants. They are not able yet to display faith. In Baptism God demonstrates that God already loves and cares for us before we can respond. Wesleyan Christians call that Prevenient Grace. Baptism isn't an act of the person being baptized or the pastor officiating the baptism, it is an act of God.

 

[BryanW92]

I was baptized in the UMC at age 45 by pouring. A friend told me that I'd need a "water baptism" if I wanted to join his church. I said I already had that. He said that pouring and sprinkling don't count.

Really?

I felt that baptism in my heart and wondered why at the time. After 39 years of chronic stuttering and never speaking in public, my stuttering stopped a year after my baptism and I preached my first sermon less than a year after that. My baptism didn't count?!? God performed a miracle after that baptism and is still working on me. If it didn't count, why did he do that?

 

[Maid Marie]

Baptism is not a demonstration of our faith in our theology. It is a demonstration of God's grace. Most United Methodists are baptized as infants. They are not able yet to display faith. In Baptism God demonstrates that God already loves and cares for us before we can respond. Wesleyan Christians call that Prevenient Grace. Baptism isn't an act of the person being baptized or the pastor officiating the baptism, it is an act of God.

I was baptized in the UMC at age 45 by pouring. A friend told me that I'd need a "water baptism" if I wanted to join his church. I said I already had that. He said that pouring and sprinkling don't count.

Really?

I felt that baptism in my heart and wondered why at the time. After 39 years of chronic stuttering and never speaking in public, my stuttering stopped a year after my baptism and I preached my first sermon less than a year after that. My baptism didn't count?!? God performed a miracle after that baptism and is still working on me. If it didn't count, why did he do that?

That's wonderful, Bryan.

Nazarene polity allows for infant baptism as well as Believers' baptism although most Nazarenes chose believers' baptism. I am an uncommon one in that I was baptized as a baby and chose not to be rebaptized as an adult [I know... not theologically correct to be rebatized but too many Nazarenes have been influenced by other denominations adn will often be rebaptized as adults]. I always say that God did it right the first time around. I see my great baptism miracle in that the grace bestowed to me when I was 1 year old to be enough to keep me in God's care my entire life. I've never strayed nor wanted to. I love God's "Keeping Grace".

 

[GraceSeeker]

Have any of you ever considered though that baptism is a work which demonstrates our faith? You know James 2:14-26... Not that baptism is what saves us, its not. Rather, the demonstration of our faith by entering the baptismal waters in repentance, calling upon the name of Jesus in so doing we are saved (Acts 2:38-39, 22:16) Not trying to debate I genuinely want to know Wesleyan position on this as I am still considering attending a Wesleyan church.

Affirming what others have said above and adding my own twist to it.

Given that we understand the principal actor in baptism to be God and not the individual, baptism isn't principally about anything that we ourselves proclaim. This is also why we don't practice baptism in isolation from the church. It really isn't a celebration of the individual, but of the body of Christ. And in this sense you're right, it is a celebration in which the church (again not the individual) proclaims its faith in the activity of God. And we see that activity, in other words, grace, being activated in the life of the one who is being baptized. We are celebrating the prevenient grace of God that either (a) brought this person to a point of saving faith or (b) one day we trust will as parents raise them in the Christian community and faith.

 

[circuitrider]

Graceseek, I'm glad you pointed out the corporate nature of the sacrament. Both baptism and communion are practiced within the community of faith.