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Was polygamy a sin?

ralliann

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Yes God hates divorce and in the case of David it cost him his first born son with Bathsheba.
This was not about divorce? It was about adultery.
What I am talking about is Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh". I think Jesus is talking about marriage and how it is suppose to be and how God intended for marriage to be. In the movie "A stranger among us". The Hasidic was explaining what marriage is for them. The detective Melony Griffith was having trouble trying to grasp the concept. Christians have what they call promise keepers where they save themselves for marriage.

My wife and I have actually arranged maybe five or six marriages. It is interesting how all of that works out.

Paul in Chapter 7 of 1 Corinthians says a women is free to remarry if her husband dies but in Paul's opinion she would be better to remain single and devote herself to serving God. "40 In my judgment, however, she is happier if she remains as she is. And I think that I too have the Spirit of God."
women could not have multiple husbands. Jew's were polygamous historically. They did cease in the diaspora because it was frowned upon among Christians.
 
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eleos1954

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A man could have more than one wife in the OT, Deuteronomy 21:


Deuteronomy 25:


The brother of the dead man could already have a wife of his own and take on one more wife.

2 Samuel 12:


God permitted David to have multiple wives and gave him wives.

What about in the NT?

English Standard Version 1 Timothy 3:


1 Corinthians 7:


Polygamy was permitted in the OT but discouraged in the New. Matthew 19:
The Bible shows monogamy to be a universal moral requirement and polygamy to be a violation of the divine principle

God with His foreknowledge knowing what men would choose (multiple wives) He therefore established some rules in that regard ... that is ... He regulated it ... didn't condone or sanction it.

God never takes away mans choices but that does not mean at all he accepts their choices as being in line with His divine principles ... He does know the choices mankind will make.

More revelation about the matter was given in the new testament ... pointing people back to what IS Gods divine principle is about the matter.

As time went on and goes on ... mankind is given more revelation (understanding) about a lot of things. It's not that God has changed His divine principles it's mans understanding about them that changes.
 
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eleos1954

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That is why David had her husband killed.
David committed adultery, Bathsheba became pregnant, and then to hide the affair and the pregnancy by killing her husband.
 
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eleos1954

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The wages of sin is death.
There was a considerable time gap between David's sin with Bathsheba and the murder and his confession and repentance. Uriah was buried and Bathsheba was nine months pregnant when David finally confessed to the Lord and repented – but this was only after a sobering confrontation with the Prophet Nathan.

David will be forgiven.

Also it's likely she was raped by David ... not an affair

So David sent messengers and took her, and she *came to him, and he lay with her. (2 Samuel 11:2–4)
*the Hebrew word used also means brought


Didn't know who she was ... so no previous relationship of any kind indicated

Nowhere does it say Bathsheba knew David had Uriah her husband killed, just notified that he was dead.

2nd Samuel 11

26 When the wife of Uriah heard that Uriah her husband was dead, she mourned for her husband. 27 And when her mourning was over, David sent and brought her to his house, and she became his wife and bore him a son.


It seems to rather indicate that she didn't know David plotted her husbands death, also we don't know how long she mourned.

Anyway it is stated that David confessed and repented, nothing mentioned about Bathsheba in that regard ... but ... if she was raped then she wouldn't need to do that.

Hard to say ... no concrete info on some things.

I'm looking forward to finding out about a lot of things that went on someday when we get to heaven.
 
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ralliann

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The Bible shows monogamy to be a universal moral requirement and polygamy to be a violation of the divine principle
Universal? Where do you get that from? Polygamy was common (universal) among those people where scripture began. Abraham, Jacob, etc. The problem is we in modern culture find it repugnant, let alone the notion of a woman, having the status of a concubine (servant wife)
God with His foreknowledge knowing what men would choose (multiple wives) He therefore established some rules in that regard ... that is ... He regulated it ... didn't condone or sanction it.
He made it LAWFUL. We don't like slavery either, but God made it lawful, even commanded it. We who know scripture understand that these things were not slavery in the sense as was done in modern times. To deal with cruelty, God hated that. Egypt was judged on that account.
God never takes away mans choices but that does not mean at all he accepts their choices as being in line with His divine principles ... He does know the choices mankind will make.

More revelation about the matter was given in the new testament ... pointing people back to what IS Gods divine principle is about the matter.

As time went on and goes on ... mankind is given more revelation (understanding) about a lot of things. It's not that God has changed His divine principles it's mans understanding about them that changes.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; {of good … : or, modest }
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Bishop, deacon,: One wife.
These offices were financed by the church
Marriage: A man was not to marry unless he was financially capable of providing for his wife and children.
1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. {house: or, kindred

This obligation was foundational to marriage, no matter how many wives a man had......You provide for your household...
Only a man of wealth could take multiple wives. This is why the offices of Bishop/Deacon, were to have one wife. It was sufficient for him. The church was not to be burdened with financing more than was sufficient for him.
 
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Grip Docility

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Have you ever heard of or seen the movie "Loving Leah"? It is really a cute movie about a modern day Levirate marriage. The brother of a secular Jewish doctor dies suddenly. The doctor is living away from the orthodox community, his brother an Orthodox Rabbi dies with a widow, named Leah. They both "fake" a Levirate marriage , each for their own reasons. It is just a good movie. If you have a chance to see it I recommend watching it.
I'm half way through the movie and I know that Carol is toast. :tearsofjoy:
 
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eleos1954

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Universal? Where do you get that from? Polygamy was common (universal) among those people where scripture began. Abraham, Jacob, etc. The problem is we in modern culture find it repugnant, let alone the notion of a woman, having the status of a concubine (servant wife)

He made it LAWFUL. We don't like slavery either, but God made it lawful, even commanded it. We who know scripture understand that these things were not slavery in the sense as was done in modern times. To deal with cruelty, God hated that. Egypt was judged on that account.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; {of good … : or, modest }
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Bishop, deacon,: One wife.
These offices were financed by the church
Marriage: A man was not to marry unless he was financially capable of providing for his wife and children.
1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. {house: or, kindred

This obligation was foundational to marriage, no matter how many wives a man had......You provide for your household...
Only a man of wealth could take multiple wives. This is why the offices of Bishop/Deacon, were to have one wife. It was sufficient for him. The church was not to be burdened with financing more than was sufficient for him.
God did allow polygamy, we must remember that allowance is not the same as approval. He allows us to do a lot of things but that does not mean He approves of everything we do. He knew it would happen so yeah He did put some regulations in regard to that ... but that does not mean at all He approved of it.

What verses are you using in the thinking God commanded it? Men made those choices not God.

The first mention of polygamy in Scripture says, “Lamech took to himself two wives” (his decision) (Gen. 4:19). We are then told that Lamech, a descendant of Cain, boasted to his wives about murdering a boy (Gen. 4:23). Lamech was a bad man, and polygamy is something he practiced ... a decision by man ... not God.

Not only does God never command or condone polygamy, but he also condemns it. In Deuteronomy 17, God gives instructions for the future kings of Israel, and he specifically condemns taking on many wives. “He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away” (Deut. 17:17). In other words, God wasn’t okay with David and Solomon having multiple wives, and they disobeyed his commands.

Man disobeys Gods commandments all the time but He continues to help mankind navigate through his/our disobedience. He provided ways to regulate their disobedience, certainly did not approve of it. He still works with mankind even though we are disobedient ... if He didn't nobody could be saved.

The command was given at creation ... throughout history man has and is disobedient in the matter of marriage and (a lot of other things as well.) He helps us overcome our disobedience and many times we are hard hearted about it ... but He keeps working in our hearts.

Genesis 2:24

23And the man said: “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for out of man she was taken.” 24For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife (singular), and they will become one flesh.

God does not change ... He's perfect don't need to change anything ... we are the ones that need change ... we are disobedient.

Only God has righteous judgement and yeah He has and will do it as He sees fit even unto death. That's why we are cautioned not to judge anyone.

Judge not, that you be not judged.” (Matthew 7:1)
 
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ralliann

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God did allow polygamy, we must remember that allowance is not the same as approval. He allows us to do a lot of things but that does not mean He approves of everything we do. He knew it would happen so yeah He did put some regulations in regard to that ... but that does not mean at all He approved of it.

What verses are you using in the thinking God commanded it? Men made those choices not God.

The first mention of polygamy in Scripture says, “Lamech took to himself two wives” (his decision) (Gen. 4:19). We are then told that Lamech, a descendant of Cain, boasted to his wives about murdering a boy (Gen. 4:23). Lamech was a bad man, and polygamy is something he practiced ... a decision by man ... not God.

Not only does God never command or condone polygamy, but he also condemns it. In Deuteronomy 17, God gives instructions for the future kings of Israel, and he specifically condemns taking on many wives. “He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away” (Deut. 17:17). In other words, God wasn’t okay with David and Solomon having multiple wives, and they disobeyed his commands.

Man disobeys Gods commandments all the time but He continues to help mankind navigate through his/our disobedience. He provided ways to regulate their disobedience, certainly did not approve of it. He still works with mankind even though we are disobedient ... if He didn't nobody could be saved.

The command was given at creation ... throughout history man has and is disobedient in the matter of marriage and (a lot of other things as well.) He helps us overcome our disobedience and many times we are hard hearted about it ... but He keeps working in our hearts.

Genesis 2:24

23And the man said: “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for out of man she was taken.” 24For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife (singular), and they will become one flesh.

God does not change ... He's perfect don't need to change anything ... we are the ones that need change ... we are disobedient.

Only God has righteous judgement and yeah He has and will do it as He sees fit even unto death. That's why we are cautioned not to judge anyone.

Judge not, that you be not judged.” (Matthew 7:1)
The following commandment was not just for "single" men.......

Deut 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband’s brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband’s brother unto her. {her husband’s … : or, her next kinsman }
6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
7 And if the man like not to take his brother’s wife, then let his brother’s wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband’s brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband’s brother. {brother’s: or, next kinsman’s }
8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;
9 Then shall his brother’s wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother’s house.
10 And his name shall be called in Israel, The house of him that hath his shoe loosed.
 
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Reluctant Theologian

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A man could have more than one wife in the OT, Deuteronomy 21:


Deuteronomy 25:


The brother of the dead man could already have a wife of his own and take on one more wife.

2 Samuel 12:


God permitted David to have multiple wives and gave him wives.

What about in the NT?

English Standard Version 1 Timothy 3:


1 Corinthians 7:


Polygamy was permitted in the OT but discouraged in the New. Matthew 19:
The moral framework for marriage/family/sexuality matters is the Torah, both for TNK/OT times and for New Covenant/NT times (see Acts 15 where the Jewish Apostles/elders use this as their framework of reference).

In New Covenant/NT times we see that Yeshua highlights that our thoughts/mindset/heart ultimately guide our actions. So a physical sin starts with a mental sin. But the moral framework wasn't changed (Paul argues it is still the Law/Torah that defines sin). We see John mentioning 'a new commandment to love one another', but that is an expansion of Leviticus 19:18. The New Covenant/NT does not introduce new prohibitions - it relaxes some of the old ones.

Based upon the following I would argue that it wasn't a sin in TNK/OT times and in all likelihood neither in New Covenant/NT times:

- the Torah doesn't prohibit it while a man having more than one wife was common throughout ALL Biblical times
- the Torah regulates matters in cases where a man would obtain an additional wife (if it was a sin it would simply ban it altogether)
- the Torah's levirate instruction even is a command to take an additional wife in case the surviving brother already was married (as you've already pointed out)
- YHWH portrays himself as a man having two wives in the books of Jeremiah and Ezekiel
- the Torah condemns the multiplication of horses and wives for Israel's kings, but that doesn't mean having two horses already was a sin
- David's sin was called out by God through the prophet Nathan - the accusation is clear; besides murder it was a case of adultery because Bathsheba was married, not because David already had multiple wives at that point - God even indicated He had no problem with that
- men having multiple wives (Abraham, Jacob, Gideon, David) are included in the 'heroes of the faith' list in Hebrews 11 (if polygamy was considered to be adultery in New Covenant/NT times these men would not have been included)
- no man in either TNK/OT or New Covenant/NT books is ever condemned/called out for having more than one wife
- the New Covenant books contain veiled traces of Polygyny:
* 1 Corinthians 5:1 refers to someone's 'father's wife' instead of mother​
* 1 Corinthians 7:2 uses both an 'exclusive' term for 'own' (wife) and a non-exclusive 'own' (husband)​
* on three occasians Paul gives instructions that a separated/married woman is bound to her husband, but nowhere does he write the reverse for a man. The obvious explanation for this 'unfair/sexist' asymmetry is that Paul is emphasizing compliance with the Torah on marriage/sexuality matters. The Torah didn't allow a woman to have more than one husband, but it did allow a man to have more than one wife.​

Polygyny in Judaism was banned for European Jewry in the 11th century by Ashkenazi Rabbi Gershom ben Judah (960-1040 CE) and would last a thousand years - that ban has now formally expired. That ban was not introduced because of theological reasons, but to avoid problems in German society in those days. This ban was never recognised by other Jewish groups like the Sephardic.

As long as a husband keeps his marital obligations and his able to follow Paul's instructions regarding his wife/wives and things are consensual I would not call this sin. To introduce a new moral prohibition and label that 'Gods Law' for me would be like 'adding to scripture' in an unauthorised manner.

It would be rather strange and unexpected if a drastic new moral prohibition would be introduced to New Covenant/NT times believers ONLY in the form of a byline as part of qualifications for elders/deacons, because it would represent a radical break with the Torah. Monogamy was the formal norm of the Roman Empire, not of Israelite/Jewish society.

Unfortunately this topic is highly divisive - the Achilles heel seems to be the concept of Patriarchy; Polygyny requires Patriarchy in order to work. So egalitarian believers who oppose Patriarchy therefore also have to dislike Polygyny.

For a deeper scholarly treatment of this subject I would recommend reading:

On the Morality of Biblical Polygyny (by Professor (ret.) William F. Luck)

Maybe good to add it doesn't seem to be God's ideal for Adam - he only was given Eve. Number-wise societies with equal numbers for men/women run into trouble when many men can't find wives because the high-value men hord wives. Also consequentially the amount of time a man and his wife share is less than in a monogamous context.
 
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eleos1954

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So why all the sneaking around with her husband? Why did David not just tell him the truth?
What gives you the idea she was "sneaking around"? (verses) David was a king .... it's not unusual for any of us to try and hide our sins (from humanity), in Davids case it would be even more so to try and do (cover up) because of Him being a King and ruler over Israel.

Like I said ... the bible states David did not know who she was ... so that shows there was no prior knowledge of her by David. Also there is nothing stated that said their relationship continued after they came together .... only that Bathsheba told David she was pregnant.

Because of Davids "stature" it is not surprising for David to try and conceal what he had done and try and cover it up. Evidently the lie "worked" as far as the people were concerned ... but one can not hide from God.

Nowhere in the Bible is Bathsheba condemned or said to have done wrong. In fact, Nathan the prophet, when he confronts David, compares her to a sacrificed ewe lamb.

Also that child died. 2 Samuel 12 BSB

We are missing concrete info about the matter as to whether it was consensual or not. Regardless ... regardless David sinned and later confessed to God and repented.
 
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eleos1954

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So why all the sneaking around with her husband? Why did David not just tell him the truth?
What verses says they were sneaking around?

Why he didn't tell the truth? To avoid death.

Leviticus 20:10 threatened that 'the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife … the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death', while Deuteronomy 22:22 thundered, if a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then both of them shall die'.

David sinned against God and repented. When we sin ... it is a sin (transgression of the law) and is against God

Not one single time is Bathsheba condemned or is it said that she sinned.

David surely did not blame her rather referred to what he had done against God.

This is not the story of a godly man being lured away by an adulterous woman, as mentioned in Proverbs ch 7 (those kind of women absolutely exist).

Every single person, including godly people, have evil desires within their hearts. If left alone and acted on without repentance these evil desires grow. This story is about a godly man using his place of power and authority to give into sinful urges and take what he wanted. A story of a godly man seeking to cover up his grievous sin unsuccessfully, resulting in more sin. The story of a godly man, who when confronted with his sin, took ownership and repented. A story of a man who loved God, yet severely displeased God, Followed by restoration. He repented with true sorrow over what he had done and did not continue in his evil.

It can be concluded the people of that time were unaware of what David had done because had it been known they would have been put to death according to the law.

When we sin against our "neighbor" (other humans) ... we sin against God ... and often those sins are kept private between the person and God (they are the "secrete" things). We may choose to hide our sin from fellow man .... but no one can hide from God. Will we be forgiven for our secrete sins? Yes .... if we repent ... such as David did.
 
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Diamond72

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What verses says they were sneaking around?
I am talking about how he ordered her husband to come home from fighting the war so he would have relations with his wife in the hope that he would think it was his child. That looks like sneaking around to me. But call it whatever you want. We are told the sword never left his house after that event. Remember the story where the women begged David not to kill her husband. Even though he was no good.

Abigail was married to a wealthy man named Nabal, who was described as “churlish and evil in his doings.” When David and his men requested provisions from Nabal, he refused. Abigail intervened, bringing food to David’s men and humbly asking for mercy. She said, “Upon me let this iniquity be,” and persuaded David not to harm her husband. Later, God struck down Nabal, and David proposed marriage to Abigail, which she accepted
 
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eleos1954

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I am talking about how he ordered her husband to come home from fighting the war so he would have relations with his wife in the hope that he would think it was his child. That looks like sneaking around to me. But call it whatever you want. We are told the sword never left his house after that event. Remember the story where the women begged David not to kill her husband. Even though he was no good.

Abigail was married to a wealthy man named Nabal, who was described as “churlish and evil in his doings.” When David and his men requested provisions from Nabal, he refused. Abigail intervened, bringing food to David’s men and humbly asking for mercy. She said, “Upon me let this iniquity be,” and persuaded David not to harm her husband. Later, God struck down Nabal, and David proposed marriage to Abigail, which she accepted
True ... David was trying to cover up what he did ... there is nothing stated to indicate that Bathsheba knew what David was trying to do .... it's hard to say .... we just don't have enough info to determine the entire scenario .... but the entire story is based on David's actions .... what he did

In this other story .... Abigail was a widow and there is nothing wrong with remarrying after being widowed.

Same with Bathsheba (widowed) .... there is nothing that states Bathsheba and David's relationship was consensual. Like I said ... really it points otherwise because David did not know who she was and ordered for her to be brought to him.

Hard to say ???
 
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Diamond72

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Hard to say ???
It is difficult to believe that she was not provoking him. Perhaps she liked to use her beauty to entice men because it gave her a sense of power and control. So the idea that he "raped" her does not seem to fit the story. There is also the issue (no pun intended) that she had just purified herself. So she should not have been futile until weeks later. So is this a ongoing relation or was there some sort of a delay?
 
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eleos1954

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It is difficult to believe that she was not provoking him. Perhaps she liked to use her beauty to entice men because it gave her a sense of power and control. So the idea that he "raped" her does not seem to fit the story. There is also the issue (no pun intended) that she had just purified herself. So she should not have been futile until weeks later. So is this a ongoing relation or was there some sort of a delay?
Doesn't state she was provoking him. What it states is what David saw and did.
 
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