Was polygamy a sin?

[Diamond72]

Doesn't state she was provoking him. What it states is what David saw and did.

The law of responsibility states that a person is responsible for everything they are, have, achieve, and become, including the events and circumstances they've attracted, the choices they've made, and the consequences of those choices.

Where does the Bible say that David raped her? It is funny how her son Solomon talks about evil wicked women a lot. You would think a women who was raped would do a better job of raising her son than this:

Proverbs 6 24 to keep you from the evil woman, from the smooth tongue of the adulteress.
25Do not lust in your heart for her beauty or let her captivate you with her eyes.…

• In Ecclesiastes 7:26, Solomon says: “I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare.”

 

[eleos1954]

Where does the Bible say that David raped her?

I didn't say it did .... I said the way things read it's possible. Mainly because it states he did not know who she was. She didn't come to him on her own accord ... she was brought to him.

My position is ... we really do not know for sure ... we aren't given any solid details regarding Bathsheba ... whether it was consensual or not, can not either confirm or deny.

 

[Diamond72]

My position is ... we really do not know for sure

But are you suggesting that David was some sort of a Gaddafi that tortured and abused women? Even his body guards were women. We are told that David was a man after the heart of God. He loved God and he loved the law and commandments of God. What about the girl they gave David to keep him warm in his old ages? Was she willing to do her job or was she forced into slavery also. I just do not see David as being an abusive person like that.

 

[eleos1954]

But are you suggesting that David was some sort of a Gaddafi that tortured and abused women? Even his body guards were women. We are told that David was a man after the heart of God. He loved God and he loved the law and commandments of God. What about the girl they gave David to keep him warm in his old ages? Was she willing to do her job or was she forced into slavery also. I just do not see David as being an abusive person like that.

View attachment 349991

I never said David tortured women (good grief!) ... was discussing what we know about this specific story. Yes, the Lord said David was a man after God's own heart .... but we also know he wasn't "Mr. Perfect" ... none of us are. Many godly men (and women) have and do fall into sin.

David experienced lust in his heart and gave into it through action. He sent for her ... did not previously know her .... we do not know if it was consensual or not .... it does not say. It also does not mean physical violence was involved ... It could have been emotional coercion ... with David being in the position of power (a king) ... we know some women can feel emotionally coerced (manipulated) by men that are in power.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh. on a woman to lust after her hath committed. adultery with her already in his heart.

It doesn't matter the reason sexual sin took place .... David confessed, repented and was forgiven just like many of us do.

David was a sinner, a human being such as all of us are, capable of being enticed by the lusts of his flesh. But he was truly a man after God’s heart. Deep down, far below his sinful desires, he longed to do God’s will and was grieved when confronted with his failure. He sinned greatly and repented greatly. So will all who love God.

I think one of the main points of the story is .... even though one may have a very close relationship with the Lord (after God's own heart) we can and sometimes do give into temptation .... first comes temptation ... then the fall.

 

[Diamond72]

I never said David tortured women (good grief!)

You accuse David of rape. They say all men are abusive. There are just too many contradictions in all of this. My wife is from a third world nation. They do just fine changing their clothing or even taking a bath under a big floppy dress so no one gets excited or turned on. Maybe Bathsheba was being modest and David just has an active imagination. But for me I am going to say she enticed him and you are going to say that he raped her. Although it is a mute point because even in a court of law it is not a defense if she enticed him.

I know of many women who divorce their husband because they have a better offer from another man. It only stands to reason that Bathsheba took advantage of David being interested in her. To eat at the kings table was utopia for them back then. Yes I know women want to be valued but they also want a roof over their head, food on the table and shoes on their feet.

There is no way to have a conversation like this without someone somewhere getting upset. So it is best just to avoid talking about this.

 

[eleos1954]

The law of responsibility states that a person is responsible for everything they are, have, achieve, and become, including the events and circumstances they've attracted, the choices they've made, and the consequences of those choices.

Where does the Bible say that David raped her? It is funny how her son Solomon talks about evil wicked women a lot. You would think a women who was raped would do a better job of raising her son than this:

Proverbs 6 24 to keep you from the evil woman, from the smooth tongue of the adulteress.
25Do not lust in your heart for her beauty or let her captivate you with her eyes.…

• In Ecclesiastes 7:26, Solomon says: “I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare.”

I didn't say it says he raped her ...

Where does it say it was consensual? It don't say either way.

Perhaps a better way of putting it is “David took advantage of Bathsheba”. The royal power David wielded and the rapid nature of the encounter argue strongly for that view. Could be Bathsheba was submitting to the experience much more than seeking it. David was in a powerful position ... being a king.

The narratives seems to blame David—and only David—for what happened. It's plausible she obeyed the summons of a king and yielded to his desires in a state of vulnerability.

It don't say either way ... it happened is really all we know.

 

[Diamond72]

Perhaps a better way of putting it is “David took advantage of Bathsheba”.

This is like Pauls throne in the flesh. Everyone has their own perspective. You think men are abusive so that is your perspective. I think women are gold diggers so that is my perspective. This is why I bring up Abagail, one of David's OTHER wives. Abigail’s first husband, Nabal, met an unfortunate end in the Bible. After Abigail intervened to prevent David from seeking revenge against Nabal, the narrative takes a dramatic turn. Nabal suffered a sudden death, described as a heart attack. This event is interpreted as divine retribution for Nabal’s folly and refusal to assist David. So did David abuse her or did she take advantage of the opportunity to be a wife of the man that was to become King.

You seem to think the situation with Bathsheba is different from Abagail but for me it is the same. Perhaps all of David's wives were opportunists. Like I said, I know a fair number of women that have divorced their husband because a better offer came their way. Of course their claim is they were already separated but just had not filed for a divorce.

The Bible says to stay single or get remarried or go back to their husband. But I am sure you will disagree with me on that also. Because after all men are no good abusive bums so a women has the right to do whatever she wants to do to avoid being abused. I would love to play the pity card for the "victims". But I think people should take more responsibility for what happens to them in life and quit blaming others.

Reminds me of the song cell block tango,
Carving up a chicken for dinner (uh-uh)
Minding my own business (Cicero)
In storms my husband Wilbur in a jealous rage (Lipschitz)
"You been screwin' the milkman, " he says (pop)
He was crazy (six)
And he kept on screamin' (uh-uh)
"You been screwin' the milkman"
And then he ran into my knife
He ran into my knife ten times.

He had it comin'
He had it comin'
He only had himself to blame
If you'd have been there
If you'd have heard it
I betcha you would have done the same

Only problem is her defense does not hold up in a court of law.
Anymore than the guy who thinks he can rape a women because she is dressed provocitive.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

I didn't say it says he raped her ...

Where does it say it was consensual? It don't say either way.

Perhaps a better way of putting it is “David took advantage of Bathsheba”. The royal power David wielded and the rapid nature of the encounter argue strongly for that view. Could be Bathsheba was submitting to the experience much more than seeking it. David was in a powerful position ... being a king.

The narratives seems to blame David—and only David—for what happened. It's plausible she obeyed the summons of a king and yielded to his desires in a state of vulnerability.

It don't say either way ... it happened is really all we know.

David indeed took advantage of Bathsheba, but that doesn't mean the text also leaves open she also has some responsibility here.

No matter the power imbalance; the Torah was well-known when this happened. And it clearly stated that if a married woman didn't scream in a city when being 'taken' by a man not her husband, that was sufficient to be taken as 'guilt' on her part and would have triggered the death penalty for her as well.

The writer of 2 Samuel knew this rule in the Torah and leaves out any hint of her resistance; knowing full well that the representation of the facts he chose to write would make her bear responsibility as well. Despite David's status and power.

 

[Ace777]

A man could have more than one wife

Jesus said from the beginning it was not so. Adam and Eve are an example of Jesus and His Bride the Church. Just as Jesus sacrificed Himself for His bride the husband is to sacrifice himself for his wife. I prayed fever ant for 17 years for a wife and eventually we do reap the benefit of that.