Was Peter Baptized?

[Major1]

The rosary is a devotion in honor of the Virgin Mary. It consists of a set number of specific prayers. First are the introductory prayers: one Apostles’ Creed (Credo), one Our Father (the Pater Noster or the Lord’s Prayer), three Hail Mary’s (Ave’s), one Glory Be (Gloria Patri).



The Apostles’ Creed



The Apostles’ Creed is so called not because it was composed by the apostles themselves, but because it expresses their teachings. The original form of the creed came into use around A.D. 125, and the present form dates from the 400s. It reads this way:

"I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. The third day he arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen."

Traditional Protestants are able to recite the Apostles’ Creed without qualms, meaning every line of it, though to some lines they must give meanings different from those given by Catholics, who composed the creed. For instance, we refer to "the holy Catholic Church," meaning a particular, identifiable Church on earth. Protestants typically re-interpret this to refer to an "invisible church" consisting of all "true believers" in Jesus.

Protestants, when they say the prayer, refer to the (lower-cased) "holy catholic church," using "catholic" merely in the sense of "universal," not implying any connection with the (upper-case) Catholic Church, which is based in Rome. (This is despite the fact that the term "Catholic" was already used to refer to a particular, visible Church by the second century and had already lost its broader meaning of "universal").

Despite these differences Protestants embrace the Apostles’ Creed without reluctance, seeing it as embodying basic Christian truths as they understand them.



The Lord’s Prayer



The next prayer in the rosary—Our Father or the Pater Noster (from its opening words in Latin), also known as the Lord’s Prayer—is even more acceptable to Protestants because Jesus himself taught it to his disciples.

It is given in the Bible in two slightly different versions (Matt. 6:9-13; Luke 11:2-4). The one given in Matthew is the one we say. (We won’t reproduce it here. All Christians should have it memorized.)



The Hail Mary



The next prayer in the rosary, and the prayer which is really at the center of the devotion, is the Hail Mary. Since the Hail Mary is a prayer to Mary, many Protestants assume it’s unbiblical. Quite the contrary, actually. Let’s look at it.

The prayer begins, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." This is nothing other than the greeting the angel Gabriel gave Mary in Luke 1:28 (Confraternity Version). The next part reads this way:

"Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus." This was exactly what Mary’s cousin Elizabeth said to her in Luke 1:42. The only thing that has been added to these two verses are the names "Jesus" and "Mary," to make clear who is being referred to. So the first part of the Hail Mary is entirely biblical.

The second part of the Hail Mary is not taken straight from Scripture, but it is entirely biblical in the thoughts it expresses. It reads:

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

Let’s look at the first words. Some Protestants do object to saying "Holy Mary" because they claim Mary was a sinner like the rest of us. But Mary was a Christian (the first Christian, actually, the first to accept Jesus; cf. Luke 1:45), and the Bible describes Christians in general as holy. In fact, they are called saints, which means "holy ones" (Eph. 1:1, Phil. 1:1, Col. 1:2). Furthermore, as the mother of Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Mary was certainly a very holy woman.

Some Protestants object to the title "Mother of God," but suffice it to say that the title doesn’t mean Mary is older than God; it means the person who was born of her was a divine person, not a human person. (Jesus is one person, the divine, but has two natures, the divine and the human; it is incorrect to say he is a human person.) The denial that Mary had God in her womb is a heresy known as Nestorianism (which claims that Jesus was two persons, one divine and one human), which has been condemned since the early 400s and which the Reformers and Protestant Bible scholars have always rejected.



Another Mediator?



The most problematic line for non-Catholics is usually the last: "pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death." Many non-Catholics think such a request denies the teaching of 1 Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." But in the preceding four verses (1 Tim. 2:1-4), Paul instructs Christians to pray for each other, meaning it cannot interfere with Christ’s mediatorship: "I urge that prayers, supplications, petitions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone. . . . This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior."

We know this exhortation to pray for others applies to the saints in heaven who, as Revelation 5:8 reveals, intercede for us by offering our prayers to God: "The twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.



The Glory Be



The fourth prayer found in the rosary is the Glory Be, sometimes called the Gloria or Gloria Patri. The last two names are taken from the opening words of the Latin version of the prayer, which in English reads:

"Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen." The Gloria is a brief hymn of praise in which all Christians can join. It has been used since the fourth century (though its present form is from the seventh) and traditionally has been recited at the end of each Psalm in the Divine Office.



The Closing Prayer



We’ve covered the opening prayers of the rosary. In fact, we’ve covered all the prayers of the rosary except the very last one, which is usually the Hail Queen (Salve Regina), sometimes called the Hail Holy Queen. It’s the most commonly recited prayer in praise of Mary, after the Hail Mary itself, and was composed at the end of the eleventh century. It generally reads like this (there are several variants):

"Hail holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary."

So those are the prayers of the rosary. Between the introductory prayers and the concluding prayer is the meat of the rosary: the decades. Each decade—there are fifteen in a full rosary (which takes about forty-five minutes to say)—is composed of ten Hail Marys. Each decade is bracketed between an Our Father and a Glory Be, so each decade actually has twelve prayers.

Each decade is devoted to a mystery regarding the life of Jesus or his mother. Here the word mystery refers to a truth of the faith, not to something incomprehensible, as in the line, "It’s a mystery to me!" The fifteen mysteries are divided into three groups of five: the Joyful, the Sorrowful, the Glorious. When people speak of "saying the rosary" they usually mean saying any set of five (which takes about fifteen minutes) rather than the recitation of all fifteen mysteries. Let’s look at the mysteries.



Meditation the Key



First we must understand that they are meditations. When Catholics recite the twelve prayers that form a decade of the rosary, they meditate on the mystery associated with that decade. If they merely recite the prayers, whether vocally or silently, they’re missing the essence of the rosary. It isn’t just a recitation of prayers, but a meditation on the grace of God. Critics, not knowing about the meditation part, imagine the rosary must be boring, uselessly repetitious, meaningless, and their criticism carries weight if you reduce the rosary to a formula. Christ forbade meaningless repetition (Matt. 6:7), but the Bible itself prescribes some prayers that involve repetition. Look at Psalms 136, which is a litany (a prayer with a recurring refrain) meant to be sung in the Jewish Temple. In the psalm the refrain is "His mercy endures forever." Sometimes in Psalms 136 the refrain starts before a sentence is finished, meaning it is more repetitious than the rosary, though this prayer was written directly under the inspiration of God.

It is the meditation on the mysteries that gives the rosary its staying power. The Joyful Mysteries are these: the Annunciation (Luke 1:26-38), the Visitation (Luke 1:40-56), the Nativity (Luke 2:6-20), the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple (Luke 2:21-39), and the Finding of the child Jesus in the Temple (Luke 2:41-51).

Then come the Sorrowful Mysteries: the Agony in the Garden (Matt. 26:36-46), the Scourging (Matt. 27:26), the Crowning with Thorns (Matt. 27:29), the Carrying of the Cross (John 19:17), and the Crucifixion (Luke 23:33-46).

The final Mysteries are the Glorious: the Resurrection (Luke 24:1-12), the Ascension (Luke 24:50-51), the Descent of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-4), the Assumption of Mary into heaven (Rev. 12), and her Coronation (cf. Rev. 12:1).

With the exception of the last two, each mystery is explicitly scriptural. True, the Assumption and Coronation of Mary are not explicitly stated in the Bible, but they are not contrary to it, so there is no reason to reject them out of hand. Given the scriptural basis of most of the mysteries, it’s little wonder that many Protestants, once they understand the meditations that are the essence of the rosary, happily take it up as a devotion. We’ve looked at the prayers found in the rosary and the mysteries around which it is formed. Now let’s see how it was formed historically.



The Secret of Paternoster Row



It’s commonly said that St. Dominic, the founder of the Order of Preachers (the Dominicans), instituted the rosary. Not so. Certain parts of the rosary predated Dominic; others arose only after his death.

Centuries before Dominic, monks had begun to recite all 150 psalms on a regular basis. As time went on, it was felt that the lay brothers, known as the conversi, should have some form of prayer of their own. They were distinct from the choir monks, and a chief distinction was that they were illiterate. Since they couldn’t read the psalms, they couldn’t recite them with the monks. They needed an easily remembered prayer.

The prayer first chosen was the Our Father, and, depending on circumstances, it was said either fifty or a hundred times. These conversi used rosaries to keep count, and the rosaries were known then as Paternosters ("Our Fathers").

In England there arose a craftsmen’s guild of some importance, the members of which made these rosaries. In London you can find a street, named Paternoster Row, which preserves the memory of the area where these craftsmen worked.

The rosaries that originally were used to count Our Fathers came to be used, during the twelfth century, to count Hail Marys—or, more properly, the first half of what we now call the Hail Mary. (The second half was added some time later.)

Both Catholics and non-Catholics, as they learn more about the rosary and make more frequent use of it, come to see how its meditations bring to mind the sweet fragrance not only of the Mother of God, but of Christ himself.

Thank you for such a long response but in reality it was not necessary and again, the question was NOT answered.

WHERE in the Bible can we find the directions and words ROSARY and that we are told that we are to repeat what you have stated.

 

[Major1]

To understand why the charge does not work, one must first understand the use of the word "father" in reference to our earthly fathers. No one would deny a little girl the opportunity to tell someone that she loves her father. Common sense tells us that Jesus wasn’t forbidding this type of use of the word "father."

In fact, to forbid it would rob the address "Father" of its meaning when applied to God, for there would no longer be any earthly counterpart for the analogy of divine Fatherhood. The concept of God’s role as Father would be meaningless if we obliterated the concept of earthly fatherhood.

But in the Bible the concept of fatherhood is not restricted to just our earthly fathers and God. It is used to refer to people other than biological or legal fathers, and is used as a sign of respect to those with whom we have a special relationship.

For example, Joseph tells his brothers of a special fatherly relationship God had given him with the king of Egypt: "So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt" (Gen. 45:8).

Job indicates he played a fatherly role with the less fortunate: "I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know" (Job 29:16). And God himself declares that he will give a fatherly role to Eliakim, the steward of the house of David: "In that day I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah . . . and I will clothe him with [a] robe, and will bind [a] girdle on him, and will commit . . . authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah" (Is. 22:20–21).

This type of fatherhood not only applies to those who are wise counselors (like Joseph) or benefactors (like Job) or both (like Eliakim), it also applies to those who have a fatherly spiritual relationship with one. For example, Elisha cries, "My father, my father!" to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kgs. 2:12). Later, Elisha himself is called a father by the king of Israel (2 Kgs. 6:21).



A Change with the New Testament?



Some Fundamentalists argue that this usage changed with the New Testament—that while it may have been permissible to call certain men "father" in the Old Testament, since the time of Christ, it’s no longer allowed. This argument fails for several reasons.

First, as we’ve seen, the imperative "call no man father" does not apply to one’s biological father. It also doesn’t exclude calling one’s ancestors "father," as is shown in Acts 7:2, where Stephen refers to "our father Abraham," or in Romans 9:10, where Paul speaks of "our father Isaac."

Second, there are numerous examples in the New Testament of the term "father" being used as a form of address and reference, even for men who are not biologically related to the speaker. There are, in fact, so many uses of "father" in the New Testament, that the Fundamentalist interpretation of Matthew 23 (and the objection to Catholics calling priests "father") must be wrong, as we shall see.

Third, a careful examination of the context of Matthew 23 shows that Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally. The whole passage reads, "But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ" (Matt. 23:8–10).

The first problem is that although Jesus seems to prohibit the use of the term "teacher," in Matthew 28:19–20, Christ himself appointed certain men to be teachers in his Church: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations . . . teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." Paul speaks of his commission as a teacher: "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7); "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher" (2 Tim. 1:11). He also reminds us that the Church has an office of teacher: "God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers" (1 Cor. 12:28); and "his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers" (Eph. 4:11). There is no doubt that Paul was not violating Christ’s teaching in Matthew 23 by referring so often to others as "teachers."

Fundamentalists themselves slip up on this point by calling all sorts of people "doctor," for example, medical doctors, as well as professors and scientists who have Ph.D. degrees (i.e., doctorates). What they fail to realize is that "doctor" is simply the Latin word for "teacher." Even "Mister" and "Mistress" ("Mrs.") are forms of the word "master," also mentioned by Jesus. So if his words in Matthew 23 were meant to be taken literally, Fundamentalists would be just as guilty for using the word "teacher" and "doctor" and "mister" as Catholics for saying "father." But clearly, that would be a misunderstanding of Christ’s words.



So What Did Jesus Mean?



Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love "the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men" (Matt. 23:6–7). His admonition here is a response to the Pharisees’ proud hearts and their grasping after marks of status and prestige.

He was using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.

Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell" (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47). Christ certainly did not intend this to be applied literally, for otherwise all Christians would be blind amputees! (cf. 1 John 1:8; 1 Tim. 1:15). We are all subject to "the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life" (1 John 2:16).

Since Jesus is demonstrably using hyperbole when he says not to call anyone our father—else we would not be able to refer to our earthly fathers as such—we must read his words carefully and with sensitivity to the presence of hyperbole if we wish to understand what he is saying.

Jesus is not forbidding us to call men "fathers" who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. (See below on the apostolic example of spiritual fatherhood.) To refer to such people as fathers is only to acknowledge the truth, and Jesus is not against that. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.

As the apostolic example shows, some individuals genuinely do have a spiritual fatherhood, meaning that they can be referred to as spiritual fathers. What must not be done is to confuse their form of spiritual paternity with that of God. Ultimately, God is our supreme protector, provider, and instructor. Correspondingly, it is wrong to view any individual other than God as having these roles.

Throughout the world, some people have been tempted to look upon religious leaders who are mere mortals as if they were an individual’s supreme source of spiritual instruction, nourishment, and protection. The tendency to turn mere men into "gurus" is worldwide.

This was also a temptation in the Jewish world of Jesus’ day, when famous rabbinical leaders, especially those who founded important schools, such as Hillel and Shammai, were highly exalted by their disciples. It is this elevation of an individual man—the formation of a "cult of personality" around him—of which Jesus is speaking when he warns against attributing to someone an undue role as master, father, or teacher.

He is not forbidding the perfunctory use of honorifics nor forbidding us to recognize that the person does have a role as a spiritual father and teacher. The example of his own apostles shows us that.



The Apostles Show the Way



The New Testament is filled with examples of and references to spiritual father-son and father-child relationships. Many people are not aware just how common these are, so it is worth quoting some of them here.

Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: "Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ" (1 Cor. 4:17); "To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2); "To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2).

He also referred to Timothy as his son: "This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18); "You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1); "But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel" (Phil. 2:22).

Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: "To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior" (Titus 1:4); "I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment" (Philem. 10). None of these men were Paul’s literal, biological sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.



Spiritual Fatherhood



Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul’s statement, "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

Peter followed the same custom, referring to Mark as his son: "She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark" (1 Pet. 5:13). The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, "Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children" (2 Cor. 12:14); and, "My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!" (Gal. 4:19).

John said, "My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1); "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth" (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as "fathers" (1 John 2:13–14).

By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests "father." Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.

Catholics know that as members of a parish, they have been committed to a priest’s spiritual care, thus they have great filial affection for priests and call them "father." Priests, in turn, follow the apostles’ biblical example by referring to members of their flock as "my son" or "my child" (cf. Gal. 4:19; 1 Tim. 1:18; 2 Tim. 2:1; Philem. 10; 1 Pet. 5:13; 1 John 2:1; 3 John 4).

All of these passages were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and they express the infallibly recorded truth that Christ’s ministers do have a role as spiritual fathers. Jesus is not against acknowledging that. It is he who gave these men their role as spiritual fathers, and it is his Holy Spirit who recorded this role for us in the pages of Scripture. To acknowledge spiritual fatherhood is to acknowledge the truth, and no amount of anti-Catholic grumbling will change that fact.

Again........you have copied and pasted the information found at
"www.catholic.com/tract/call-no-man-father".

That tells me that YOU do not have any idea why you call your bishop FATHER which is directly against the command of Jesus Himself.

Do you have any thoughts on this without having to use the opinions of Catholic web sites?????

 

[concretecamper]

Haha...the old fatherhood in the shoe trick. I asked you to get rid of those old cue cards.

 

[Major1]

Haha...the old fatherhood in the shoe trick. I asked you to get rid of those old cue cards.

If it wasn't so sad, I would be laughing too.

Matt.23:9...........
"And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible..........
"The word “father” also denotes “authority, eminence, superiority, a right to command, and a claim to particular respect.” In this sense it is used here. In this sense it belongs eminently to God, and it is not right to give it to people. Christian brethren are equal. Only God has supreme authority. He only has a right to give laws; to declare doctrines that shall bind the conscience; to punish disobedience. The Jewish teachers affected that title because they seem to have supposed that a teacher formed the man, or gave him real life, and sought, therefore, to be called father. Christ taught them that the source of all life and truth was God, and they ought not to seek or receive a title which properly belongs to him."

Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible..............
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven, etc. — To construe these injunctions into a condemnation of every title by which Church rulers may be distinguished from the flock which they rule, is virtually to condemn that rule itself; and accordingly the same persons do both - but against the whole strain of the New Testament and sound Christian judgment. But when we have guarded ourselves against these extremes, let us see to it that we retain the full spirit of this warning against that itch for ecclesiastical superiority which has been the bane and the scandal of Christ‘s ministers in every age.

Justin Edwards' Family Bible New Testament
Call no man your father; as having authority over your faith and practice. In matters of religion and conscience, ministers of the gospel cannot bow to mere human authority without giving to men what belongs only to God; and men who, on the ground of such authority, claim to be fathers and masters to their brethren, directing them what to believe and do, are antichrists, denying in practice the prerogatives of both the Father and the Son.

 

[jaison jose]

Thank you for such a long response but in reality it was not necessary and again, the question was NOT answered.

WHERE in the Bible can we find the directions and words ROSARY and that we are told that we are to repeat what you have stated.

repeating word of God is not wrong ...its common sense....in Bible it is written to pray
as jesus taught us the prayer it is also the way how to pray..so first praising , ur will be done,asking,forgiveness,protection....this is the way one should pray

God gave you brain to think not just like monkeys always finding each word and just learning it

understand...and apply...

 

[jaison jose]

Again........you have copied and pasted the information found at
"www.catholic.com/tract/call-no-man-father".

That tells me that YOU do not have any idea why you call your bishop FATHER which is directly against the command of Jesus Himself.

Do you have any thoughts on this without having to use the opinions of Catholic web sites?????

as my english is not too good i may not be able to write or use the words which i wanted to explain so i thought of giving this

if you want to accept truth u can by reading u need not justify yourselves
my idea is not the matter for you to accept the truth..

 

[concretecamper]

If it wasn't so sad, I would be laughing too.

Matt.23:9...........
"And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible..........
"The word “father” also denotes “authority, eminence, superiority, a right to command, and a claim to particular respect.” In this sense it is used here. In this sense it belongs eminently to God, and it is not right to give it to people. Christian brethren are equal. Only God has supreme authority. He only has a right to give laws; to declare doctrines that shall bind the conscience; to punish disobedience. The Jewish teachers affected that title because they seem to have supposed that a teacher formed the man, or gave him real life, and sought, therefore, to be called father. Christ taught them that the source of all life and truth was God, and they ought not to seek or receive a title which properly belongs to him."

Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible..............
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven, etc. — To construe these injunctions into a condemnation of every title by which Church rulers may be distinguished from the flock which they rule, is virtually to condemn that rule itself; and accordingly the same persons do both - but against the whole strain of the New Testament and sound Christian judgment. But when we have guarded ourselves against these extremes, let us see to it that we retain the full spirit of this warning against that itch for ecclesiastical superiority which has been the bane and the scandal of Christ‘s ministers in every age.

Justin Edwards' Family Bible New Testament
Call no man your father; as having authority over your faith and practice. In matters of religion and conscience, ministers of the gospel cannot bow to mere human authority without giving to men what belongs only to God; and men who, on the ground of such authority, claim to be fathers and masters to their brethren, directing them what to believe and do, are antichrists, denying in practice the prerogatives of both the Father and the Son.

You have copied and pasted, this tells me you have no idea of your own why you believe such nonsense

 

[Thedictator]

Where does it say that in the Bible?

“An outward sign of an inward grace” is not in the Bible.

It is simply something that I believe takes place in someone who has been saved and follows in baptism, not because he has to but because he wants to.

Exactly, IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE. You have chosen to believe in a denominational teaching over what the Bible says, and that's your right to do so, but a lot of people chose to believe what the Bible actually says and I'm one of them.

 

[Thedictator]

Well.......... I'm not a member of "any denomination"; my "teaching" is Spiritually inspired by the one and only Holy Spirit. Only HE provides Spiritual interpretation and application. It is sad how many step outside of that Truth to formulate a personal POV.

Be strong in the Lord, in the Power of HIS Might.

You do not have to belong to one to follow it's teachings. As for the Holy Spirit he does not falsely interpret the Word of God, especially on issues of Baptism.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Exactly, IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE. You have chosen to believe in a denominational teaching over what the Bible says, and that's your right to do so, but a lot of people chose to believe what the Bible actually says and I'm one of them.

In this particular matter, you don't believe what the Bible says. This is simply because the Bible is silent on the matter, as it is on innumerable matters.

For example, the Bible does not tell us how many heads John the Baptist actually possessed, although I would be quite hard pressed to find anyone who thinks John the Baptist actually had more than one head. The Bible does not tell us to communicate with other people using electronic technology, but there are some sincere Christians who believe it to be a serious sin to do so. Obviously, you are not one of those individuals, nor am I.

 

[Thedictator]

A work is something we physically do.

A work is something that is physically done to accomplish a task, which is seen. Belief, faith is exercised without lifting a finger. The Bible emphatically states that we are not saved by works. If we were, we would surely boast in ourselves, just as it says in Ephesians 2:10

You are absolutely wrong. There are all kinds of work. There are: Physical work, Mental work, Good works, sinful work, spiritual work, and many other kinds of work. As some one who's work is primarily mental your statement is very insulting, I have a friend who is a doctor and works long hours doing mostly mental work and paid for it. And your accusation that we do not work for our salary is very insulting in indeed.

The Word for work in Ephesians is the Greek word: ergon, it means to labor, employment, action, an inner desire to accomplish, a mental process to carry out a plan, intension, purpose, behavior, an enterprise, an undertaking. The word incorporates both mental and physical work.

The Bible itself states that belief in Jesus Christ is a work we do, The Bible teaches that work is both mental and physical.

Now as to boasting, I have seen people boast about their Faith, about how superior their faith is to others.

 

[Thedictator]

A work is something that is physically done to accomplish a task, which is seen. Belief, faith is exercised without lifting a finger. The Bible emphatically states that we are not saved by works. If we were, we would surely boast in ourselves, just as it says in Ephesians 2:10

So then, Is baptism considered a work?

No, Baptism is not a work we do, it is a work that is done to us.

Now John 6:29 says that Believing in Jesus Christ is a work. So Ephesians 2 is NOT saying ALL work. If that was the case then we would not need to believe in Jesus Christ is be saved. ( and the Universal salvationist believe just that ) The work that Ephesians is talking about is meritorial work, not work of faith or an active faith ( that the Book of James talks about ) Baptism is not a meritorial Work but is active faith.

 

[Thedictator]

Baptism is a physical work of man, this is why is not part of the gospel that says we are save by grace through faith. In other words we depend on what work another did for us to be saved, God through Christ. Faith is what the heart and mind agree on, what Jesus did already for us. We trust in His work for us.

Your wrong Baptism is an act done by man ( the baptizer ) and God. Man administers baptism by the authority of God, (Matthew 28:18-20) and God performs baptism simultaneously in the spiritual world so that the sinner can spiritually participate in the Gospel ( Romans 6:3-4 )of Jesus Christ. If Baptism is a work it is a work done by the power of God, and God himself.

 

[Thedictator]

Mark 16:16 is of course the most popular verse used by those like yourself who believe in water baptism is need to be saved.............

This verse does not say that baptism is a requirement for salvation. Let me show you why. I could easily say that he who believes and goes to church will be saved. That is true. But it is belief that saves - not belief and going to church.

Belief in what God has done on the cross as a sacrifice and not what man can do by believing and getting baptized is what results in salvation. Baptism is simply a public demonstration of the inner work of regeneration. This is why the rest of the verse says, "...but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16 focuses on the issue of belief - not baptism. Notice that it does not say that he who is not baptized will not be saved. It never says that anywhere in scripture.

It has become obvious because of your denominational teaching that you do not understand what Baptism really is. Baptism is not a religious bath. It is an ordained gift from God, a command of God, it is not a water bath, do not get me wrong, I do not believe in Baptismal regeneration, the water of baptism has no power, it is in the faithful act of baptism that GOD demonstrates HIS power to save. I'm not talking about the physical Baptism but the power of God in Baptism.

Now if someone is baptized without belief, faith and repentance, no baptism has taken place. That is what Paul is talking when he says " but he who does not believe will be condemned." Without faith one is only getting wet. It is the belief and faith in the act of baptism that matters. I take a bath every day but I'm not baptized every day. Without belief baptism is not necessary. I do not care what the denominations teach, I care what the Bible actually says. It says that If you believe and are baptized you will be saved.

 

[Major1]

It has become obvious because of your denominational teaching that you do not understand what Baptism really is. Baptism is not a religious bath. It is an ordained gift from God, a command of God, it is not a water bath, do not get me wrong, I do not believe in Baptismal regeneration, the water of baptism has no power, it is in the faithful act of baptism that GOD demonstrates HIS power to save. I'm not talking about the physical Baptism but the power of God in Baptism.

Now if someone is baptized without belief, faith and repentance, no baptism has taken place. That is what Paul is talking when he says " but he who does not believe will be condemned." Without faith one is only getting wet. It is the belief and faith in the act of baptism that matters. I take a bath every day but I'm not baptized every day. Without belief baptism is not necessary. I do not care what the denominations teach, I care what the Bible actually says. It says that If you believe and are baptized you will be saved.

I have to disagree with you.

You are forcing the Scriptures to say what YOU want them to say instead of just accepting them as they are.

I have explained to you now several the correct teachings on the phrases and Scriptures you posted and I really do not see a need to go on debating something that is really not debatable.

The Bible does NOT say that baptism is a part of salvation. To believe that casts doubt on the shed bllod of Jesus which is the only thing that matters. To make water on the same level as the blood of God is just very wrong.

 

[Major1]

Your wrong Baptism is an act done by man ( the baptizer ) and God. Man administers baptism by the authority of God, (Matthew 28:18-20) and God performs baptism simultaneously in the spiritual world so that the sinner can spiritually participate in the Gospel ( Romans 6:3-4 )of Jesus Christ. If Baptism is a work it is a work done by the power of God, and God himself.

IF you are referring to being baptized into the Holy Spirit of God then YES I agree.
If you are talking about water baptism then NO I do not agree.

 

[Major1]

You have copied and pasted, this tells me you have no idea of your own why you believe such nonsense

I have no need or desire to have this kind of childish banter back and forth over nothing.

You have a wonderful life and be blessed, grow in knowledge and grace and I am sure that some where down the road we will speak again but as for now and on the subject I am done.

See ya later.

 

[Major1]

repeating word of God is not wrong ...its common sense....in Bible it is written to pray
as jesus taught us the prayer it is also the way how to pray..so first praising , ur will be done,asking,forgiveness,protection....this is the way one should pray

God gave you brain to think not just like monkeys always finding each word and just learning it

understand...and apply...

God bless you my friend. May the Lord bless you and keep you safe.

 

[Major1]

No, Baptism is not a work we do, it is a work that is done to us.

Now John 6:29 says that Believing in Jesus Christ is a work. So Ephesians 2 is NOT saying ALL work. If that was the case then we would not need to believe in Jesus Christ is be saved. ( and the Universal salvationist believe just that ) The work that Ephesians is talking about is meritorial work, not work of faith or an active faith ( that the Book of James talks about ) Baptism is not a meritorial Work but is active faith.

Wheter WE do it or another person does it to us.....that is still WORKS and we are not saved by ANYTHING we can do.

The work in Ephesians is ANYTHING.....ANYTHING we think that we can add to what Jesus did for us on the cross is wrong my friend.

Faith should not be understood as our qualifications for being chosen but as a gift from God which brought about new life. In other words, God saw that we were spiritually dead. We could not in any way contribute anything to our salvation or even a more sensitive spiritual heart. We were spiritually dead. God then gives us grace through faith. This is what this passage clearly teaches us.

He awakens us with His Spirit and enables us to see what we never saw before. Repentance is the first sign of this newly given faith. We have nothing to give Him. Faith is the next. Faith is something God gives us due to the new life that He makes us alive with. Without His work in us, we have not way to respond just as a dead person cannot respond to light or sound. With Him, we start to see and respond to Him and others. I, for example, was not at all aware of my sin until God helped me see. This seeing of my sin and deserving of hell was a result of the new faith that God brought to me.

The apostle says, “that not of yourselves.” Whether you think it is your upright character, the way you tried to please your parents, the many religious services you attended, the way you were baptized, the money you give, all piled up they contribute nothing to our salvation. If grace is grace, then it is because we do not deserve His kindness. Otherwise grace is no longer grace but something deserved.

 

[concretecamper]

Again........you have copied and pasted the information found at
"www.catholic.com/tract/call-no-man-father".

That tells me that YOU do not have any idea why you call your bishop FATHER which is directly against the command of Jesus Himself.

Do you have any thoughts on this without having to use the opinions of Catholic web sites?????

"I have no need or desire to have this kind of childish banter back and forth over nothing.

You have a wonderful life and be blessed, grow in knowledge and grace and I am sure that some where down the road we will speak again but as for now and on the subject I am done."

See, when you act like a hypocrite, expect someone to call you out.