Was Paul water Baptized in Acts 9:17 ?

[dan p]

Andronicus and Junia .

Ro 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.


Terral, These kinsmen were "in Christ" before Paul. He was not the one who got them there.


Hi JDS , the fact of being " in Christ " is a spiritual position that was common to both Evangelical Judaism , as practiced in the early Acts period , and Christianity , as revealed to the Apostle Paul .

Compare Jude 3 , common salvation . However , this common ground does NOT make the Messianic Assembly the same as the Body of Christ .

The differences are to great to make it the same . Just because my house has 3 bedrooms and your house has 3 bedrooms does not mean that my house is your house .

Similarity does not make them the same and during our Lord's earthly ministry , He spoke of Jewish believers who would be " in Him and He in them " , John 15:1-7 . This is an expansion of the New Covenant truth in Ezek 36:26 and 27 .

There is a big difference between being " in Christ " redemptively , and being " in the Body of Christ " dispensationally .

These are 2 different positions . Being " in Christ " is because of salvation , and being " in the Body of Christ : IS BY THE HOLY SPIRIT .

This also takes place at the time of salvation , but only those saved during this Dispensation of grace are placed into the Body of Christ , which is God's Assembly .

Paul is the only writer to mention this truth, so the above conclusion is only being consistent with the facts .

It wae this common spiritual position of being " in Christ " that enabled Barnabas and other Jewish believers to work with the Apostle Paul on his missionary trips .

Paul recognized this spiritual position of the Jewish believers in 1 Thess 2:14 .
This is why Paul could say that some were " in Christ " before me .

 

[dan p]

Hi Dan:



First of all, you and I have known each other for some time and we both know that the Dispensation of God's Grace began with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9. However, that does nothing to change the fact that the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' is the ONLY gospel in town at this stage in Acts 9! Ananias (Acts 9:10) is a Kingdom Disciple saved by obeying the same 'Gospel of the Kingdom' that he preached for Saul; unless you want to try and make him a member of Christ's Body 'before' Paul's conversion.


Hi Terral , I it is a small thing to show that the Law was preached till Acts 28:31 , or to show that Paul never again taught the Law and Acts 21:21 and Gal 1:23 and Gal 2:18 show that the Law was OUT in these passages .

The reason I ask the same question is because you have NOT ANSWERED where Paul switched from being a Kingdom saint to being a Body of Christ saint ? Where did it happen ???

You also have not shown a verse where Paul was Water Baptized ?

Yes Paul 's revelations were many and the word " seen " is in the Greek perfect tense and that means that Paul had many revelation and is a given !

 

[JDS]

Hi JDS , the fact of being " in Christ " is a spiritual position that was common to both Evangelical Judaism , as practiced in the early Acts period , and Christianity , as revealed to the Apostle Paul .

Compare Jude 3 , common salvation . However , this common ground does NOT make the Messianic Assembly the same as the Body of Christ .

The differences are to great to make it the same . Just because my house has 3 bedrooms and your house has 3 bedrooms does not mean that my house is your house .

Similarity does not make them the same and during our Lord's earthly ministry , He spoke of Jewish believers who would be " in Him and He in them " , John 15:1-7 . This is an expansion of the New Covenant truth in Ezek 36:26 and 27 .

There is a big difference between being " in Christ " redemptively , and being " in the Body of Christ " dispensationally .

These are 2 different positions . Being " in Christ " is because of salvation , and being " in the Body of Christ : IS BY THE HOLY SPIRIT .

This also takes place at the time of salvation , but only those saved during this Dispensation of grace are placed into the Body of Christ , which is God's Assembly .

Paul is the only writer to mention this truth, so the above conclusion is only being consistent with the facts .

It wae this common spiritual position of being " in Christ " that enabled Barnabas and other Jewish believers to work with the Apostle Paul on his missionary trips .

Paul recognized this spiritual position of the Jewish believers in 1 Thess 2:14 .
This is why Paul could say that some were " in Christ " before me .

You have no scripture for any of the above and it is nothing more than human philosophy out of control.

There is one body and Peter and the apostles were in it unless you have another group of apostles and prophets also.

What part of the following statements do you not understand or is too hard to know?

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the (one) body is not one member, but many.

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


Just so you know the body and the church are the same thing:

Eph 1:22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


If you insist on denying what is plainly said, I do not think you can be helped.

It is time to re-think you two church philosophy!!

 

[Terral]

Hi Dan:

Andronicus and Junia .

Ro 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Terral, These kinsmen were "in Christ" before Paul. He was not the one who got them there.

Hi JDS , the fact of being " in Christ " is a spiritual position that was common to both Evangelical Judaism , as practiced in the early Acts period , and Christianity , as revealed to the Apostle Paul.

Please allow me to demonstrate what it means to be "IN Christ Jesus." Look all the way over to the left to find "One God/Creator" to realize that God must interact with men of the 'Earth' (under Heavens and Heaven) through three witnesses of Spirit (God To Come), Blood (God Who Is) and Water (God Who Was = diagram). Then realize that God has pushed that 'Second Veil' into the very heart (center) of His Only Begotten Son to surround His Throne like a giant typewriter ribbon weaving around and returning to the Infinite Realm (far left = like this). That means God's Throne stands in the Infinite Realm and a place is created at God's right hand for our Lord Jesus Christ who represents the entire almost infinite Universe (F+S+HS = Realm of the Word) as a Heavenly Man (1Tim 2:5) that mediates/intercedes for us. Christ's Kingdom is not of this world and not even of this realm (John 18:36), but is a Heavenly Kingdom (2Tim. 4:18 = my Topic) in the almost infinite realm.

The next important truth to realize that a place is also created for your father Adam directly in front of Jesus Christ representing the Heavens, Heaven and Earth. Adam is currently Adam 'and' Eve to represent the Heavens (Adam = spirit witness) and the Earth:

Stand with Peter, John and James on the Mount of Transfiguration and behold Moses (your mother Eve) and Elijah (your father Adam) representing the Earth (water witness in blue = all men) and the Heavens (spirit witness in gold/yellow = all the angels). If you read 1John 5:6-8, then look at Moses, Christ and Elijah, then you will see why Jesus Christ came in water and in blood (Num. 20:9-12 = Christ is the Rock). Now look into New Jerusalem (between God's hands) and find the "Lamb" of God that John the Baptist pointed to (Jn 1:29, 36) as the incarnation of the almost infinite realm (F+S+HS = Christ Jesus) that stands in heaven right now as we speak.

Christ Jesus is the entire almost infinite realm and the Lamb of God is the incarnation of that entire realm in our Adamic Universe where He has stood in the 'center of the throne' (Rev. 7:17) since God (Gen. 1-2:3) sent Him as the Lord God in Genesis 2:4+. Jesus Christ on the earth is the incarnation of the Lamb of God in Heaven who is the incarnation of the almost infinite realm (F+S+HS) that Jesus Christ represents at the right hand of God. Figure 2 shows the same diagram as above (God's Mystery Is Christ Himself), but Christ Jesus (Holy Spirit Realm + Son Realm + Father Realm) and Adam (New Earth + Kingdom of Heaven + New Heavens) are laying on their sides upon the Altar. Adam (Hs+H+E) came out of Christ's side (above him), just like Christ Jesus (F+S+HS) came out of the side of God representing the Infinite Realm (like this).

Now realize that the F+S+HS Realm-where God is handing down New Jerusalem-is 'almost infinite' like God's Infinite Realm 'is' Infinite. Now cast your eyes upon the very center of the "Kingdom Of His Beloved Son" realize that Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of that Infinite Throne from the almost infinite realm. God breaks through the 'Second Veil' and places New Jerusalem into the very center of this Adamic Universe (Rev. 21:2) to become Adam's new heart (bottom of diagram); which is the Administration that Paul addresses in his Epistle to the Ephesians (1:9-10, 3:8-11*) from where we judge the world and the angels (1Cor. 6:2-3). The "Heavenly Authorities" learning about God's 'manifold wisdom' (Eph. 3:10*) through 'us' (Paul's mystery church) are almost infinite hosts that are larger than constellations from our small human perspective under Heaven and the Heavens. Our 'incarnations' here are as members of the "Lamb of God" in the Kingdom of Heaven "IN" Whom the Kingdom Disciples must be 'married' (Rev. 19:5-10) and then baptized.

Therefore it says, "(A)WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE (B)LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN." (Now this expression, "He (C)ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into (D)the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is Himself also He who ascended (E)far above all the heavens, so that He might (F) fill all things.) Ephesians 4:8-10.

God raised Jesus Christ completely out of this Heavens, Heaven and Earth Adamic Universe to place Him IN Christ Jesus, which is the almost infinite universe that contains this universe like this. Those of us truly "IN" Christ Jesus have an almost infinite existence in the F+S+HS (Word) Realm right this moment as we speak. Again, from our minuscule perspective, every almost infinite host in the almost infinite realm is moving like a constellation (motionless) from our point of view. That is the meaning of Christ's teaching in Matt. 11:11 that John/Elijah is Adam who represents this entire universe that is a minuscule little pea in comparison to the least (Peter) among the almost infinite hosts in the Kingdom of Heaven (F+S+HS Realm). Christ fills all things by indwelling the brethren/believers ('Christ IN you' = Fig 2), which represents the 'incarnation' of the almost infinite realm inside each and every believer. God then indwells His Son "IN" you to complete the process, which gives each believer the incarnation of the entire Infinite Realm "IN" them (Fig 3). ;0) Imagine a giant typewriter ball inside your being (like this), but each letter is the face of one of your brethren "IN" Christ Jesus (Rom. 12:4-5).

Only those obeying 'our gospel' (#2) are baptized into Christ Jesus (F+S+HS) through the 'one baptism' (my Topic) connected with the 'Gospel of the Grace of God.' The faces of Peter, John and James DO NOT show up on "Christ IN You," until they are married to the Lamb in Heaven and actually walk into Him to show up on God's radar screen IN Christ Jesus in the almost infinite realm. The Kingdom Disciple obeying the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' (#1) becomes a member of the Prophetic Kingdom Bride (Church #1) that stands on the 'water witness' side of the 'First Veil' separating them from the place where "I and the Father are One." John 10:30. Kingdom Disciples come to God BY WORKS (James 2:20-24) that shall keep them toiling away for all the ages to come, until eventually they are judged worthy to cross the First Veil and join us IN Christ Jesus. Only Paul teaches our citizenship in the Highest Heaven (Gen. 1:1 = 1Kings 8:27) that David knows about because he is also a skin (diagram) for your father Adam (Bathsheba is your mother Eve) like Abraham and Sarah; the Lord God's two olive trees/lampstands that testify before the Lord (Lamb) of the Earth (Zech. 4:11-14). ;0)

Those among you mixing Kingdom and Grace Doctrine together are blind and deluded and distorting the 'wisdom given him' to your 'own destruction.' 2Peter 3:14-16. My brothers IN Christ that are mixing Kingdom and Grace doctrine together will be rewarded (at the Judgment) with smoky garments (as through fire) and the thrill of watching your rewards handed to another ...

I am,

In Christ Jesus right now,

Terral

 

[dan p]

under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


If you insist on denying what is plainly said, I do not think you can be helped.

It is time to re-think you two church philosophy!!

Hi JDS , and EKKLESIA does not means Church , and by that definition , SOMA CHRISTOS means Body of Christ , are different Greek words , and you are the DENIER , DAN P

 

[Terral]

Hi Dan and JDS:

Hi JDS , and EKKLESIA does not means Church , and by that definition , SOMA CHRISTOS means Body of Christ , are different Greek words , and you are the DENIER , DAN P

I do believe that JDS is right on this point. First of all, Ekklesia (#1577) is commonly translated into 'Church,' because this is an 'assembly' of one kind or another.

(A)Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh (B)I do my share on behalf of (C)His body, which is the church [ekklesia #1577], in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.(D)Of this church I was made a minister according to the (E)stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,that is, (F)the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints,to whom (G)God willed to make known what is (H)the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is (I)Christ in you, the (J)hope of glory. Colossians 1:24-27.

Since Paul says "His Body, which is The Church," then Dan has no right to say otherwise. The 'church/assembly' of called out believers that Paul is talking about is Church #2 saved by God's grace through faith apart from works by obedience in our gospel (#2). That does not mean every 'assembly' in the Bible represents our mystery church. By contrast, Christ is referring to disciples of the Prophetic Kingdom 'Bride' (Church #1) in describing His 'Church' in Matthew 16:18 saved via the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' (#1).

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[JDS]

Hi Dan:

No sir. Please allow me to demonstrate what it means to be "IN Christ Jesus." Look all the way over to the left to find "One God/Creator" to realize that God must interact with men of the 'Earth' (under Heavens and Heaven) through three witnesses of Spirit (God To Come), Blood (God Who Is) and Water (God Who Was = diagram). Then realize that God has pushed that 'Second Veil' into the very heart (center) of His Only Begotten Son to surround His Throne like a giant typewriter ribbon weaving around and returning to the Infinite Realm (far left = like this). That means God's Throne stands in the Infinite Realm and a place is created at God's right hand for our Lord Jesus Christ who represents the entire almost infinite Universe (F+S+HS = Realm of the Word) as a Heavenly Man (1Tim 2:5) that mediates/intercedes for us. Christ's Kingdom is not of this world and not even of this realm (John 18:36), but is a Heavenly Kingdom (2Tim. 4:18 = my Topic) in the almost infinite realm.

The next important truth to realize that a place is also created for your father Adam directly in front of Jesus Christ representing the Heavens, Heaven and Earth. Adam is currently Adam 'and' Eve to represent the Heavens (Adam = spirit witness) and the Earth:

Stand with Peter, John and James on the Mount of Transfiguration and behold Moses (your mother Eve) and Elijah (your father Adam) representing the Earth (water witness in blue = all men) and the Heavens (spirit witness in gold/yellow = all the angels). If you read 1John 5:6-8, then look at Moses, Christ and Elijah, then you will see why Jesus Christ came in water and in blood (Num. 20:9-12 = Christ is the Rock). Now look into New Jerusalem (between God's hands) and find the "Lamb" of God that John the Baptist pointed to (Jn 1:29, 36) as the incarnation of the almost infinite realm (F+S+HS = Christ Jesus) that stands in heaven right now as we speak.

Christ Jesus is the entire almost infinite realm and the Lamb of God is the incarnation of that entire realm in our Adamic Universe where He has stood in the 'center of the throne' (Rev. 7:17) since God (Gen. 1-2:3) sent Him as the Lord God in Genesis 2:4+. Jesus Christ on the earth is the incarnation of the Lamb of God in Heaven who is the incarnation of the almost infinite realm (F+S+HS) that Jesus Christ represents at the right hand of God. Figure 2 shows the same diagram as above (God's Mystery Is Christ Himself), but Christ Jesus (Holy Spirit Realm + Son Realm + Father Realm) and Adam (New Earth + Kingdom of Heaven + New Heavens) are laying on their sides upon the Altar. Adam (Hs+H+E) came out of Christ's side (above him), just like Christ Jesus (F+S+HS) came out of the side of God representing the Infinite Realm (like this).

Now realize that the F+S+HS Realm-where God is handing down New Jerusalem-is 'almost infinite' like God's Infinite Realm 'is' Infinite. Now cast your eyes upon the very center of the "Kingdom Of His Beloved Son" realize that Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of that Infinite Throne from the almost infinite realm. God breaks through the 'Second Veil' and places New Jerusalem into the very center of this Adamic Universe (Rev. 21:2) to become Adam's new heart (bottom of diagram); which is the Administration that Paul addresses in his Epistle to the Ephesians (1:9-10, 3:8-11*) from where we judge the world and the angels (1Cor. 6:2-3). The "Heavenly Authorities" learning about God's 'manifold wisdom' (Eph. 3:10*) through 'us' (Paul's mystery church) are almost infinite hosts that are larger than constellations from our small human perspective under Heaven and the Heavens. Our 'incarnations' here are as members of the "Lamb of God" in the Kingdom of Heaven "IN" Whom the Kingdom Disciples must be 'married' (Rev. 19:5-10) and then baptized.

God raised Jesus Christ completely out of this Heavens, Heaven and Earth Adamic Universe to place Him IN Christ Jesus, which is the almost infinite universe that contains this universe like this. Those of us truly "IN" Christ Jesus have an almost infinite existence in the F+S+HS (Word) Realm right this moment as we speak. Again, from our minuscule perspective, every almost infinite host in the almost infinite realm is moving like a constellation (motionless) from our perspective. That is the meaning of Christ's teaching in Matt. 11:11 that John/Elijah is Adam who represents this entire universe that is a minuscule little pea in comparison to the least (Peter) among the almost infinite hosts in the Kingdom of Heaven (F+S+HS Realm). Christ fills all things by indwelling the brethren/believers ('Christ IN you' = Fig 2), which represents the 'incarnation' of the almost infinite realm inside each and every believer. God then indwells His Son "IN" you to complete the process, which gives each believer the incarnation of the entire Infinite Realm "IN" them (Fig 3). ;0) Imagine a giant typewriter ball inside your being (like this), but each letter is the face of one of your brethren "IN" Christ Jesus (Rom. 12:4-5).

Only those obeying 'our gospel' (#2) are baptized into Christ Jesus (F+S+HS) through the 'one baptism' (my Topic) connected with the 'Gospel of the Grace of God.' The faces of Peter, John and James DO NOT show up on "Christ IN You," until they are married to the Lamb in Heaven and actually walk into Him to show up on God's radar screen IN Christ Jesus in the almost infinite realm. The Kingdom Disciple obeying the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' (#1) becomes a member of the Prophetic Kingdom Bride (Church #1) that stands on the 'water witness' side of the 'First Veil' separating them from the place where "I and the Father are One." John 10:30. Kingdom Disciples come to God BY WORKS (James 2:20-24) that shall keep them toiling away for all the ages to come, until eventually they are judged worthy to cross the First Veil and join us IN Christ Jesus. Only Paul teaches our citizenship in the Highest Heaven (Gen. 1:1 = 1Kings 8:27) that David knows about because he is also a skin (diagram) for your father Adam (Bathsheba is your mother Eve) like Abraham and Sarah; the Lord God's two olive trees/lampstands that testify before the Lord (Lamb) of the Earth (Zech. 4:11-14). ;0)

Those among you mixing Kingdom and Grace Doctrine together are blind and deluded and distorting the 'wisdom given him' to your 'own destruction.' 2Peter 3:14-16. My brothers IN Christ that are mixing Kingdom and Grace doctrine together will be rewarded (at the Judgment) with smoky garments (as through fire) and the thrill of watching your rewards handed to another ...

I am,

In Christ Jesus right now,

Terral

This is near total confusion!!

 

[dan p]

Hi Dan and JDS:



I do believe that JDS is right on this point. First of all, Ekklesia (#1577) is commonly translated into 'Church,' because this is an 'assembly' of one kind or another.


Hi Terral and JDS , and EKKLESIA is the Greek word that is Translated , church .

EK means from out of !!

and KLEIS , a calling ( KALEO ) means to call !!

Then EKKLESIA means an Assembly or Congregation !!

If EKKLESIA means Assembly , what is the Greek word for Church ???

We sure have gotten afar off Acts 9:18 and not one has shown a verse where Paul was Baptized !!!!

 

[ARBITER01]

This is near total confusion!!

Lol, he shows up here every once in a while and sports his little charts on CF. It's funny to watch the reactions out of people, like yours,.. and I certainly agree, it IS confusion.

 

[JDS]

We sure have gotten afar off Acts 9:18 and not one has shown a verse where Paul was Baptized !!!!

You surely missed my post where I addressed this and showedplainly where Paul was baptized. If he was not baptized, he did not have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Scroll down and find it. It is not far back.

 

[Terral]

Hi JDS:

This is near total confusion!!

Yes. To you. ;0)

GL,

Terral

 

[dan p]

You surely missed my post where I addressed this and showedplainly where Paul was baptized. If he was not baptized, he did not have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Scroll down and find it. It is not far back.

Hi JDS , and Acts 9:17 , sais that HE WAS FILLED with Holy Spirit and verse 18 m does not even HINT of Water and is Ridiculous . Water Baptizers see BAPTIZO and it means water to them and most forms of BAPTIZO IS A DRY BAPTISM .

I have already shown the Greek Article is not used in verse 17 , and in my KJV , it reads " and be filled with ( the ) Holy Spirit , is Incorrect !!

The correct reading is " be filled with Holy Spirit " but this the second time that I have written this and you can check the Greek text and see , but will you ?

Baptism was GIVEN to Israel and NOT TO Gentiles and Paul never Baptized and check the Gospels to see who Baptism was given to !!! dan p

 

[Terral]

Hi Dan:

Hi JDS , and Acts 9:17 , sais that HE WAS FILLED with Holy Spirit and verse 18 m does not even HINT of Water and is Ridiculous . Water Baptizers see BAPTIZO and it means water to them and most forms of BAPTIZO IS A DRY BAPTISM.

No. There is no such thing as a 'dry baptism' in Acts 9!!! Paul is only going to become aware of our 'one baptism' (Eph. 4:5) by the Holy Spirit (1Cor. 12:12-14) at some point LATER down the road. You are trying to give Ananias a knowledge of 'the mystery' (Eph. 3:3) and our mystery gospel (Rom. 16:25) that even Paul did not know at his conversion.

"So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after (AA)laying his hands on him said, "(AB)Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you MAY regain your sight AND be (AC)filled with [the] Holy Spirit." And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; and he took food and was strengthened." Acts 9:17-19.

The Lord Jesus sent Ananias to Saul, "so that YOU MAY regain your sight (future tense) AND be filled with Holy Spirit." Paul is NOT receiving the Holy Spirit in verse 17, but Ananias is simply making the declaration about why the Lord Jesus has sent him. Paul then gets up and WAS BAPTIZED in verse 18, as already explained by me and others.

I have already shown the Greek Article is not used in verse 17 , and in my KJV , it reads " and be filled with ( the ) Holy Spirit , is Incorrect !!

Somebody has misled you into believing that dissecting the Greek provides some mysterious new knowledge, as if the Greek's have cornered the market in Bible interpretation. Again, the ONLY gospel in town at Paul's conversion in Acts 9 is the 'Gospel of the Kingdom,' and Paul is saved like everybody else at Pentecost and the Samarians and Eunuch in Acts 8. John the Baptist is 'filled with [the] Holy Spirit' in his mother's womb in Luke 1:15 and 'without' the article like Elizabeth in Luke 1:41 and Zacharias in Luke 1:67 and Christ's Disciples in Acts 2:4. Peter is said to be 'filled with [the] Holy Spirit' and 'without' the article in Acts 4:8 like the gathering of Kingdom Disciples in Acts 4:31. Paul is said to be 'filled with [the] Holy Spirit' in Acts 13:9, which is the final place in Scripture where 'filled with [the] Holy Spirit' is used. Now I want you to show me a use of 'filled with the Holy Spirit' in Scripture where 'the' article is used. Good Luck. ;0)

The correct reading is " be filled with Holy Spirit " but this the second time that I have written this and you can check the Greek text and see , but will you ?

Baaaaa! Whether they 'receive the gift of the Holy Spirit' (Acts 2:38), or are filled with Holy Spirit, or become full of the Holy Spirit (Acts 6:5 = Steven = Acts 7:56), these Kingdom Disciples are obeying the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' to participate in a 'water' baptism for the forgiveness of sins. That is Baptism #1 (of three = my Topic) for the Kingdom Disciple to become a member of the Kingdom of God by obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Water baptism (#1) for the forgiveness of sins allows the Kingdom Disciple to wash in the Court (water witness) in the Laver of Water (Fig 3) in preparation for entering the Holy Place (blood witness in red) and Baptism #2 (name of the Son). Those two baptisms prepared the Kingdom Disciple (Church #1) to receive the laying of hands from a Disciple that already had the Holy Spirit. Only then can the Kingdom Disciple enter the Holy of Holies (spirit witness in golden/yellow) to receive the Holy Spirit in the third and final baptism for the Gospel of the Kingdom (#1).

Baptism was GIVEN to Israel and NOT TO Gentiles and Paul never Baptized and check the Gospels to see who Baptism was given to !!! dan p

The Gospel of the Kingdom includes 'water baptism' for the 'forgiveness of sins' (Mark 1:4-5, Acts 2:38) for Jews and Gentiles like the half-Jews in Samaria (Acts 8) and Cornelius and his family in Acts 10. You should realize that eventually, by the END of the age, that the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' will go to the WHOLE WORLD. Matt. 24:14. That means a water baptism for each and every Kingdom Disciple, before they hear the name of Jesus Christ (second kingdom baptism= Matt. 28:19) and receive the laying of hands for [the] Holy Spirit (Acts 8:12-17, 19:1-6).

Paul was still baptized in Acts 9:18, if you really must locate a single verse for which this WORK by human hands was performed. BTW, Dan, the Bible open in front of me is written in Greek and highlights the differences between the Received/Critical/Majority Texts, but my arguments are based upon what appears in your Bible in plain English, and,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[dan p]

Hi Dan:



No. There is no such thing as a 'dry baptism' in Acts 9!!! Paul is only going to become aware of our 'one baptism' (Eph. 4:5) by the Holy Spirit (1Cor. 12:12-14) at some point LATER down the road. You are trying to give Ananias a knowledge of 'the mystery' (Eph. 3:3) and our mystery gospel (Rom. 16:25) that even Paul did not know at his conversion.

The Lord Jesus sent Ananias to Saul, "so that YOU MAY regain your sight (future tense) AND be filled with Holy Spirit." Paul is NOT receiving the Holy Spirit in verse 17, but Ananias is simply making the declaration about why the Lord Jesus has sent him. Paul then gets up and WAS BAPTIZED in verse 18, as already explained by me and others.



Somebody has misled you into believing that dissecting the Greek provides some mysterious new knowledge, as if the Greek's have cornered the market in Bible interpretation. Again, the ONLY gospel in town at Paul's conversion in Acts 9 is the 'Gospel of the Kingdom,' and Paul is saved like everybody else at Pentecost and the Samarians and Eunuch in Acts 8. John the Baptist is 'filled with [the] Holy Spirit' in his mother's womb in Luke 1:15 and 'without' the article like Elizabeth in Luke 1:41 and Zacharias in Luke 1:67 and Christ's Disciples in Acts 2:4. Peter is said to be 'filled with [the] Holy Spirit' and 'without' the article in Acts 4:8 like the gathering of Kingdom Disciples in Acts 4:31. Paul is said to be 'filled with [the] Holy Spirit' in Acts 13:9, which is the final place in Scripture where 'filled with [the] Holy Spirit' is used. Now I want you to show me a use of 'filled with the Holy Spirit' in Scripture where 'the' article is used. Good Luck. ;0)



Baaaaa! Whether they 'receive the gift of the Holy Spirit' (Acts 2:38), or are filled with Holy Spirit, or become full of the Holy Spirit (Acts 6:5 = Steven = Acts 7:56), these Kingdom Disciples are obeying the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' to participate in a 'water' baptism for the forgiveness of sins. That is Baptism #1 (of three = my Topic) for the Kingdom Disciple to become a member of the Kingdom of God by obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Water baptism (#1) for the forgiveness of sins allows the Kingdom Disciple to wash in the Court (water witness) in the Laver of Water (Fig 3) in preparation for entering the Holy Place (blood witness in red) and Baptism #2 (name of the Son). Those two baptisms prepared the Kingdom Disciple (Church #1) to receive the laying of hands from a Disciple that already had the Holy Spirit. Only then can the Kingdom Disciple enter the Holy of Holies (spirit witness in golden/yellow) to receive the Holy Spirit in the third and final baptism for the Gospel of the Kingdom (#1).



The Gospel of the Kingdom includes 'water baptism' for the 'forgiveness of sins' (Mark 1:4-5, Acts 2:38) for Jews and Gentiles like the half-Jews in Samaria (Acts 8) and Cornelius and his family in Acts 10. You should realize that eventually, by the END of the age, that the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' will go to the WHOLE WORLD. Matt. 24:14. That means a water baptism for each and every Kingdom Disciple, before they hear the name of Jesus Christ (second kingdom baptism= Matt. 28:19) and receive the laying of hands for [the] Holy Spirit (Acts 8:12-17, 19:1-6).

Paul was still baptized in Acts 9:18, if you really must locate a single verse for which this WORK by human hands was performed. BTW, Dan, the Bible open in front of me is written in Greek and highlights the differences between the Received/Critical/Majority Texts, but my arguments are based upon what appears in your Bible in plain English, and,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Hi Terral , and it has been a good discussion and it will be for all , to make of there own mind , and my question to you will always be , Where in the bible did Paul go " from being a Kingdom saint " to being " a Grace saint " ???? dan p

 

[Terral]

Hi Dan:

Hi Terral , and it has been a good discussion and it will be for all , to make of there own mind , and my question to you will always be , Where in the bible did Paul go " from being a Kingdom saint " to being " a Grace saint " ???? dan p

Paul is the 'first' (protos = 1Tim. 1:15 + 16) member of Christ's Body to be baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27) on the cross at Calvary to become an active participant in "His" death (Rom. 6:3), "His" burial in the tomb (Rom. 6:4) and "His" resurrection (Eph. 2:6) to be seated the heavenly places "IN" Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:4-7). The explanation for what it really means to be "IN' Christ Jesus is here.

God (Jn 1:1) raised Jesus Christ above 'all the heavens' (Eph. 4:10) of this Creation (Jn 1:3 = Fig. 3 = Heavens, Heaven and Earth) to seat Him at His right hand in the almost infinite universe (Jn 1:2 = Fig. 2 = God's Word Being Restored) that contains this Adamic Universe (like this = Christ Jesus/Heaven is red and Adam/Earth is blue). Paul obtained an existence in the almost infinite realm (Fig 2.) at the moment God saved him by grace in Acts 9:6, when Christ told him to 'get up ..." (stand on your feet*).

"And I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And the Lord said, 'I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. But get up and (X)stand on your feet*; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to (Y)appoint you a (Z)minister and (AA)a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you;(AB)rescuing you (AC)from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, to (AD)open their eyes so that they may turn from (AE)darkness to light and from the dominion of (AF)Satan to God, that they may receive (AG)forgiveness of sins and an (AH)inheritance among those who have been sanctified by (AI)faith in Me.' Acts 26:15-18.

Analyze Paul's testimony here to realize the entire story is not told in Acts 9, but Jesus Christ had already chosen Paul to be steward of this current Dispensation of God's Grace (Eph. 3:2). However, God's 'water witness' (Kingdom, Peter, John, James, etc.) of Scripture MUST come first and then the 'blood witness' (Grace, Paul, Barnabas, Titus, etc.), so the Kingdom Dispensation (under Peter) can be displaced by the ascending Grace Dispensation (under Paul). Scripture follows a precise pattern that cannot be broken and Paul must become a member of the Prophetic Kingdom 'Bride' (Church #1) before his mission is changed in Acts 13:2. The answer that you (Dan) are looking for is found in the second 'Kingdom' account of Paul's conversion:

"A certain (W)Ananias, a man who was devout by the standard of the Law, and (X)well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing near said to me, '(Y)Brother Saul, receive your sight!' And (Z)at that very time I looked up at him. And he said, '(AA)The God of our fathers has (AB)appointed you to know His will and to (AC)see the (AD)Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. 'For you will be (AE)a witness for Him to all men of (AF)what you have seen and heard. 'Now why do you delay? (AG)Get up and be baptized, and (AH)wash away your sins, (AI)calling on His name.' Acts 22:12-16.

Paul had to 'call on His name' in order to receive the 'second' (blood witness) baptism of the Kingdom (F+S+HS = my Topic), so that Ananias could lay hands on him to receive the Holy Spirit and complete the third and final baptism for the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' (#1). Yes, Paul received the Holy Spirit at the moment that he became blind and did not eat nor drink for three days, which is typical of spending three days in the tomb and in the earth 'IN' Jesus Christ. In other words, Paul represents the entire Body of Christ as the 'pattern' (example 1Tim. 1:16) for what God was about to do over the next 2000-year period.

Ananias did NOT preach salvation by God's grace through faith, apart from works, to Paul or anybody else in Acts. Paul will only become aware that Christ is IN him also over an extended period. Paul received the 'gift of the Holy Spirit' upon obeying the 'three baptisms' for the Gospel of the Kingdom. You might be wondering why he did not receive the Holy Spirit back in Acts 9:6. Right? ;0) The answer is that Paul did receive the Holy Spirit by hearing in Acts 9:6, but we receive only an 'earnest' ('pledge' or down payment = Eph. 1:13) that begins as a very small seed and must be watered, fed and watered to maturity. Christ in you (Col. 1:27) begins as a fledgling child/infant (1Cor. 3:1-3) that stays in trouble and bruises his knees regularly. A 'mature' (1Cor. 2:6-8) member of Christ's Body (Church #2) has usually had 'Christ in you' (Fig 2) for an extended time.

While Paul's baptism into Christ Jesus took place in Acts 9:6, he received the 'gift of the Holy Spirit' by the laying of hands AFTER his baptism in water 'and' his confession of Jesus Christ in that specific order, because that is how disciples of 'The Way' pass from the 'Court' into the 'Holy Place' and into the 'Holy of Holies' (Fig. 2). Paul could speak in tongues and lay hands for healing, because he had the 'sign gifts' like other disciples of the Prophetic Kingdom Bride. You (Dan) made the claim that Paul did not baptize others, when he does just that many times:

"[b]I thank God that I (AC)baptized none of you except (AD)Crispus and (AE)Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the (AF)household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other." 1Corinthians 1:14-16.

Paul most certainly 'is' baptizing everyone obeying the 'Gospel of the Kingdom,' which he characterizes as "preaching the kingdom" in Acts 20:25. Barnbas' cousin "Mark" is mentioned as a 'fellow worker for the kingdom of God' (Col 1:10+11), because Paul's "Jew first" commission (before the close of Acts) meant preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom 'first' to the Jews in the area. Only then did Paul begin preaching the 'gospel of the grace of God' to the Gentiles and Jews among them. In other words, Paul began by preaching the kingdom to build the Prophetic Kingdom Bride first and then concentrated efforts on the Body of Christ being built through our mystery gospel today. Paul was a Body of Christ 'Grace' Saint three days before he became a Bride of Christ 'Kingdom' Saint by obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom. Elijah will do things backwards and preach the gospel of the grace of God 'first' to the Gentiles and then preach the Gospel of the Kingdom to Israel 'only' (Matt. 10:6, 10:24) like John the Baptist 2000 years ago. ;0)

To deny Paul's water baptism and confession of Christ and laying of hands for the Holy Spirit, for obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom, is to deny what is written in God's Living Word.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Terral]

Please Delete Me

 

[eleazar2310]

SAUL’S BAPTISM


by Fred Bachand​

Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized (9:18). “Why” was Saul baptized? This question is usually asked by some who realize that Paul, as the apostle of the Gentiles, did not practice nor preach water baptism for the Gentiles who became members of the Church, which is Christ’s Body, of which Paul was “…I became a minister according to the stewardship from God” (Col. 1:25). It seemed rather inconsistent, to some of us that Paul would submit to water baptism, perform it on at least two persons at Corinth and others at Athens and yet say; “Christ sent me not to baptize …” (1 Cor. 1:17). Our answer to this question in the past has been no better than an opinion, based upon a supposition, which we now find to be false. Therefore, we feel compelled to answer this question properly, based upon the facts presented in the record and nothing more.

First, it is generally assumed that Paul was baptized with water by Ananias at Acts 9:18. Many simply dismiss this problem as we also have done, by stating that Paul was saved under another economy, which is Israel under The Law. Therefore, Paul was subject to the ordinances of that economy, which included water baptism. Before we can answer why Paul was baptized, according to Acts 9:18, we must first find out “how” Paul was baptized at 9:18. Therewith, we must examine the verse in its context.

And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. (vss. 17&18) (Eleazar2310's note FB considered the filling of the Holy Spirit and His work as described in the past tense (e.g. filled) to be separable from the Holy Spirit himself. This assertion is not supportable due to the attributes of the Holy Spirit and the properties of the language used. Being filled and remaining so demonstrates the Holy Spirit’s abiding work.)

Let us first resume using the name Saul, as he is properly known in this context. Now notice that the mission of Ananias was two-fold, namely, 1) that Saul was to receive his sight or see again; and 2) he was to be filled with the Holy Spirit (vs. 17). Next we notice what happened to Saul. This was also two-fold; however, it appears to be three-fold. First, Saul received his sight and we have no problem with this. Second, the text says he arose. Third it would appear that he was baptized, but was it with water?

According to the Greek the expression “and he arose and was baptized” could be translated “and standing up, he was baptized” or more literally and simply “and he arose baptized.” So along with Saul’s having received his sight and his response to the two-fold mission of Ananias was correspondingly two-fold. (Eleazar2310's note Young’s Literal Translation and The New Translation (Darby) agree with this assertion.) Now notice that Saul’s baptism was accomplished upon his standing up. There was no water baptism here. Saul’s baptism corresponds with and is identical to the second part of the two-fold mission of Ananias in that Saul should be “filled with The Holy Spirit” (See the Copyist’s note above on 9:17&18)

The two-fold mission of Ananias had a two-fold character being both physical and spiritual. Likewise the response by Saul was also physical and spiritual. As we consider verses 19&20, we see that the result also had this same two-fold character. We must note carefully which aspect applies to which action. This can be clearly seen as we observe the correspondence in the structure as follows:

• The Two-Fold MISSION of Ananias (vs. 17)
  • To restore Saul’s SIGHT – PHYSICAL
  • That he might be FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT – SPIRITUAL
• The Two-Fold RESPONSE of Saul (vs. 18)
  • He received SIGHT – PHYSICAL
  • He arose BAPTIZED – SPIRITUAL
• The Two-Fold RESULT (vss. 19&20)
  • Having received FOOD, He was STRENGTHENED – PHYSICAL
  • And straightway he PREACHED CHRIST in the synagogues that He is the SON OF GOD. – SPIRITUAL

…

The only other reference to Saul’s baptism is in Acts 22:16, where Saul, as Paul The Apostle speaks of the same time, place and circumstances of Acts 9:17&18. According to his account, translated closer to the Greek, after he had received his sight (Acts 22:12-15), Ananias said to him; “And now what do you intend to do? Standing up, get yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon yourself His name” (vs. 16 – our translation and many others). All action here as directed by Ananias is in the aorist tense, which indicates action accomplished with a continuing effect. Likewise it is in the middle voice, which is the actor and the one acted upon. Therefore, Saul was acting in his own behalf and for his benefit. The baptism, the washing away of sins (This being the fulfillment of Isa. 1:16-18) and the calling upon the Name of The Lord were all accomplished simultaneously and in conjunction with Saul’s “standing up” (active voice). And so we read in Acts 9:18, “… and standing up [active voice], he was baptized [passive voice] …”

Now wait just a moment here. In Acts 22:16, Saul’s baptism was in the middle voice (see above), but in Acts 9:18, it is in the passive voice. Why? It’s because Saul’s baptism was itself two-fold. In Acts 22:16, Saul was directed to get himself baptized and his sins washed away, identifying himself with the name of the Lord. This is simply the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. This Saul accomplished for himself (middle voice) by “standing up”. In Acts 9:18; however, we do not have the record of what Ananias told Saul to do after he had received his sight. We do have Saul’s response “ … he arose and was baptized”. This baptism was received by Saul as the natural consequence of him having identified himself with the name of the Lord. It also fulfilled the second aspect of the two-fold mission of Ananias in that Saul should “ … be filled with The Holy Spirit”. If we put these two accounts together, we see that Saul stood up (active voice) calling upon the name of the Lord (middle voice) thereby getting himself baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (middle voice). This resulted in Saul’s being baptized with the Holy Spirit’s gift (passive voice). This recalls to mind Peter’s words to the people of Israel in Acts 2:38.

There is no record that Saul was ever baptized with John’s baptism. (Eleazar2310's note: It is possible that Saul’s baptism was similar to that of Cornelius and it represented that water baptism was to become a second and unnecessary baptism and that the door was about to open (See Acts 11:16&17)). It appears that if Saul had been baptized with John’s baptism of water, he would have been identified into Israel’s kingdom and not been transferred later into the Church, Christ’s Body, of which he was a minister; as Paul the Apostle of the nations. (Copyist’s note: Paul was never “transferred” from the kingdom of heaven to the Body of Christ; however, he has always been in the Kingdom of God as are all God’s saints in all ages. Paul was always in the Body of Christ, but Saul was saved under the Law dispensation)

In Acts 9:15&16 the Lord said to Ananias concerning Saul, … he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” In Acts 22:14&15 Ananias said to Saul, “The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.” The baptism of The Holy Spirit in Acts 9:18, enabled Saul to perform his mission. And so, “…Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God. (Acts 9:20)

This is the complete biblically based answer concerning “how” and “why” Saul was baptized. Any other answer could have no basis in fact and therefore could not be true and accurate. The above answer is completely ignored in Christendom.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

John 3:22-23

22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized.​

Matthew 3:13-16

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.​

Acts 8:36-39

36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.​

1 Peter 3:20-22

20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.​

If the Scriptures explain baptism in this fashion, I can just assume all the other times baptism is mentioned is for the same thing. If Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness and it tells us that He came up out of the water, I can just assume that's what we're all supposed to do and that's what was done to Paul. Paul also taught others about baptism, and he said in 1 Corinthians 1:16 that he only remember baptizing Stephanas household. If Paul went around baptizing people, it only make sense that he too was baptized.

 

[Hismessenger]

In a word no.

hismessenger

 

[Frogster]

just kinda chuckinnn this here...





No water baptism

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Or here.


Acts 14:1 Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed.

Or here.


14:21 When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch,

Or here.

16:5 So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and they increased in numbers daily.


Or here.

Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.

Or here.

Acts 17:34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.