Was Paul water Baptized in Acts 9:17 ?

[dan p]

Hi to all and I am never be amazed by Dispensationalist who beieve that Paul was saved under

the Gospel of the Kingdom which is part of the Acts 28 position that they espouse .

It seem that all agree that something happened on the road to Damascus and then we all disagree .

Everyone see the word BAPTIZO and the disagreement begins .

Where in Acts 9 , does Christ preach to Paul to repent and be Baptized ??

Where is WATER mention in the CONTEXT ??

Where is there Water in 9:17 ?? You will not find it because it is nit there !



Where is there Water mentioned in verse 18 , NONE !

In VERSE 17 , " THOU mightest receive thy sight and be FILLED with HOLY SPIRIT . The Greek Article ( THE ) is not in the Greek text and it is talking about the POWER of the Holy Spirit .

Verse 17 is not talking about the Indwelling Holy Spirit but to be filled with the Power of the Holy Spirit so that Paul can fulfill Acts 9:15 , his commission .

I Tim 1:15 , proves that Paul was first in the Body of Christ and that " Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners , of whom I am PROTOS /FIRST , by Grace .

To nthose who believe that`Saul was saved under the Law , lets see you verses ???

 

[ivebeenshown]

I've thought the same thing, that Paul was baptized with the Spirit in Acts 9.

 

[dan p]

I've thought the same thing, that Paul was baptized with the Spirit in Acts 9.

Hi ibs , and we are on the same page , and I know that I am not alone . Our former pastor , a dispensationalist , can not defend his Acts 13 position and Acts 9:6 and 17 , because they stopped studying . dan p

 

[JDS]

Hi to all and I am never be amazed by Dispensationalist who beieve that Paul was saved under

the Gospel of the Kingdom which is part of the Acts 28 position that they espouse .

It seem that all agree that something happened on the road to Damascus and then we all disagree .

Everyone see the word BAPTIZO and the disagreement begins .

Where in Acts 9 , does Christ preach to Paul to repent and be Baptized ??

Where is WATER mention in the CONTEXT ??

Where is there Water in 9:17 ?? You will not find it because it is nit there !



Where is there Water mentioned in verse 18 , NONE !

In VERSE 17 , " THOU mightest receive thy sight and be FILLED with HOLY SPIRIT . The Greek Article ( THE ) is not in the Greek text and it is talking about the POWER of the Holy Spirit .

Verse 17 is not talking about the Indwelling Holy Spirit but to be filled with the Power of the Holy Spirit so that Paul can fulfill Acts 9:15 , his commission .

I Tim 1:15 , proves that Paul was first in the Body of Christ and that " Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners , of whom I am PROTOS /FIRST , by Grace .

To nthose who believe that`Saul was saved under the Law , lets see you verses ???

Indeed Paul was baptized in water in Acts 9, Why do I know this? Because of several things which I will point out.

1) Paul was a Jew in Acts 9, which took place sometime around AD 37. He was still a Jew in 58 AD, some 20 years later when he wrote his epistle to the Romans in Ro 11:1. He says!

Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.

2) He was told to go the Damascus and meet Ananias, who would tell him what to do.

Read carefully what is said about Annanias and I will underline some pertinent facts about him:

Ac 22:11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

There cannot be any way to over emphasize the importance of this passage I have just quoted.

Annaias was clearly a Christian, having believed in the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

He said this:

Ac 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

The saints at Jerusalem were those who had believed in Christ resurrected and had been baptized in water and received the Holy Ghost.

Paul was a Jew. Ananias was a Jew. The gift of the Holy Ghost to Jews was imparted to Jews under these conditions.

Ac 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we (of the house of Israel) do?

Here is the answer:

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you (of the house of Israel) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Compare this with what Ananias told Paul in Acts 22. Paul had obviously repented on the Damascus road. He received the gift of the Holy Ghost on the condition of baptism in water, like all Israel that received him. The Spirit of God washes the sin away with the blood of Christ. Compare these two scriptures:

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

This blood is the blood of God!

Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Caution: If you have a new modern version chances are you do not have a verse in it that says the blood of Jesus Christ washes away sins.

So we see the Jews were required to be baptized in water to receive the Holy Ghost as long as they had a national identity.

Many years later Paul meets 12 disciples of John that he himself required to be baptized in water and who subsequently received the Holy Spirit. See Acts 19: 1-7.

 

[dan p]

the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghos

Hi JDS , and Titus 3:5 is just one verse that explains Acts 22:16 and Acts 9:6 does not have WATER in it , nor does Acts 9:17 !

First dead men can NEVER REPENT , for they are dead in trespasses and sins and 1 Cor says that the Natural MAN RECEIVETH not the thiongs of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him , neither can he know them , because they are spiritually DISCERNED , so then , how could Saul then be saved ?

So , that means that Paul was saved by being Water Baptized ??
[/U]

 

[Terral]

Hi Dan:

Hi to all and I am never be amazed by Dispensationalists who believe that Paul was saved under the Gospel of the Kingdom which is part of the Acts 28 position that they espouse.

Please forgive, but Paul 'was' saved by obeying the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' in Acts 9, because at that time the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' was the only gospel in town! The truth of Paul's 'gospel of the grace of God' (#2) was given to him 'through a revelation of Jesus Christ' (Gal. 1:11-12) only 'after' his original Acts 9 conversion! Remember that Paul preaches the kingdom (#1 = Acts 20:25) AND the 'gospel of the grace of God' (#2), which means he MUST be a Kingdom Disciple (like Peter) to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom! Then remember that Paul baptizes Timothy (Acts 16:1-3), because he wants Timothy to also 'preach the kingdom' to Jews for adding disciples to the Prophetic Kingdom Bride (Church #1). If Timothy was only to preach grace to Gentiles, then circumcision was not required ...

It seem that all agree that something happened on the road to Damascus and then we all disagree .

Everyone see the word BAPTIZO and the disagreement begins .

Where in Acts 9 , does Christ preach to Paul to repent and be Baptized ??

Where is WATER mention in the CONTEXT ??

Where is there Water in 9:17 ?? You will not find it because it is nit there !

Yes, baptism is there.

So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after (AA)laying his hands on him [see Acts 8:16-17, 19:5-6] said, "(AB)Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be (AC)filled with the Holy Spirit. And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; and he took food and was strengthened. Acts 9:17-19.

Where is there Water mentioned in verse 18 , NONE!

In VERSE 17 , " THOU mightest receive thy sight and be FILLED with HOLY SPIRIT . The Greek Article ( THE ) is not in the Greek text and it is talking about the POWER of the Holy Spirit .

Verse 17 is not talking about the Indwelling Holy Spirit but to be filled with the Power of the Holy Spirit so that Paul can fulfill Acts 9:15 , his commission.

No, Dan. Paul will not find out about the 'gospel of the grace of God' and the 'Body of Christ,' until later down the road. You are not allowing 'time' to pass for Paul to receive all of these aspects of 'the mystery' (Eph. 3:3) over an extended period.

I Tim 1:15 , proves that Paul was first in the Body of Christ and that " Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners , of whom I am PROTOS /FIRST , by Grace.

Paul only realized 'later' that he was the 'first' member of Christ's Body (Church #2) to be baptized into Christ Jesus by faith 'apart' from works. He did not possess the spiritual wisdom to realize anything pertaining to 'the mystery' way back in Acts 9! All of these things came later through a series of 'revelations.' Remember that Paul wrote Timothy these letters after 60 AD, or about three decades after his conversion.

To those who believe that`Saul was saved under the Law , lets see you verses ???

Saul 'was' indeed saved by the forgiveness of his sins via obeying the 'Gospel of the Kingdom!' He would later learn that his sins were forgiven by God's grace through faith 'apart' from works, but he had no way of knowing that in Acts 9.

The Kingdom Dispensation 'and' the Grace Dispensation are running side by side throughout Acts, until the Kingdom Dispensation decreases (like John the Baptist) and the current Dispensation of God's Grace became 'the' dispensation for the Body of Christ today. Paul has 'dual' membership in the Kingdom Bride 'and' the Body of Christ ...

... just like Elijah (Adam) is a member of Christ's Body today 'and' he will be the 'first' in the coming Kingdom Dispensation that lasts 1000 Years. ;0)

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[crossnote]

"Paul has 'dual' membership in the Kingdom Bride 'and' the Body of Christ ... "

Terral,
Quite fascinating. In the light of his dual membership, where does he end up in the grand scheme of things?

 

[Terral]

Hi Crossnote:

"Paul has 'dual' membership in the Kingdom Bride 'and' the Body of Christ ... "Terral, Quite fascinating. In the light of his dual membership, where does he end up in the grand scheme of things?

The Apostle Paul is the 'first' member of the mystery 'Body of Christ' (Church #2) to be baptized into Christ through the 'one baptism' (Eph. 4:5 = my Topic) described in 1Cor. 12:12-14. Paul is the 'steward' over every soul baptized into the Body of Christ like Moses is the 'steward' over Israel of the flesh living under Mosaic Law. The Heavenly Body of Christ has every appearance of a Holy Pyramid ...

... with the 'apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers' (Eph. 4:11) at the very top by Christ and many common stones at the bottom. The 'glass ceiling' represents a permanent barrier that separates the members of Christ Body from everyone joining us through judgment for all the ages to come, because their entry and participation IN Christ Jesus is BY WORKS. Every member of Christ's Body has the common characteristic of having is human host (water witness) and angel host (spirit witness) rejoined together into an 'immortal soul' in Heaven. However, the Kingdom Disciples (like Peter, John and James) are baptized into the "Holy Spirit" side of the equation and continue their existence very much separated from their angel host greater half; until they are judged and found worthy to join 'us' in Christ Jesus where "I and the Father are One." John 10:30.

To understand what this means, first you need to realize that there is a heaven (Gen. 1:8) of this Adamic Universe 'and' there is a Highest Heaven (1Kings 8:27) called to exist in Genesis 1:1. "Heaven" of Genesis 1:1 is 'The Word' of John 1:1+2 from where we find "My Father Who Is IN HEAVEN" (my USMB Topic) that is currently broken down into ...

... the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Now look over to the right of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in 'Heaven' to see the 'Heavens, Heaven and Earth' of this Adamic Universe that represents 'The Earth' (Singularity) in three witnesses of Spirit (heavens), blood (heaven) and water (earth). The Heavens (on right in yellow) represents the abode of the angels, while the Earth is the realm of men and 'heaven' (Gen. 1:8) is the place standing between these two realms as the habitation of rejoined Immortal Souls. These diagrams demonstrate how God, Heaven and Earth became God To Come, God Who Is, God Who Was (diagram), Father, Son and Holy Spirit (diagram) and Heavens, Heaven and Earth (diagram) respectively.

In reality, God is infinite and He contains Heaven (F+S+HS) as an 'almost infinite' universe that contains this Adamic Universe (heavens, heaven and earth) like a spirit (God) soul (Heaven/Word/Christ) and body (Earth/Adam). Everyone already "IN" Christ Jesus, by obeying our gospel, has membership in the almost infinite universe (Heaven) that contains this Adamic Universe. In fact, even the smallest host in "Heaven" (Gen. 1:1) is almost infinite and very much larger than this entire universe.

That is what Christ means when teaching that of those born of women, there is none greater than John the Baptist; but even the least in the Kingdom of Heaven (Gen. 1:1) is greater than he. Matt. 11:11. John the Baptist is your father Adam who represents this entire universe in 'a man' sent from God. John 1:6. The 'man' that came from 'God' is 'The Earth' of Genesis 1:1 that became the heavens, heaven and earth of this universe that represents the spirit (heavens), soul (heaven) and body (earth) of your father Adam; so that God can put Humpty Adam back together again. The least in the Kingdom of Heaven is Peter, but even he is greater than this entire universe standing on the water witness Holy Spirit side of the equation in 'Heaven,' even though Peter has yet to be reunited with his almost infinite angel half. Now let me address your question in light of this testimony:

"Paul has 'dual' membership in the Kingdom Bride 'and' the Body of Christ ... "Terral, Quite fascinating. In the light of his dual membership, where does he end up in the grand scheme of things?

Paul being the 'first' and greatest member of Christ's Body, 'and' Peter being the least in Heaven, end up at the very same place IN Christ Jesus at the end of time. All roads lead to God through Christ Jesus, but the hosts are called to take different avenues where some come to God by His Grace (Body of Christ) and some come to God BY WORKS (Bride of Christ) like Israel of the flesh. Those among us who obey Paul's Gospel are given the same things obtained by the Bride of Christ, but for 'free.' ;0)

Paul, Barnabas and Timothy all have dual citizenship in the Kingdom Bride (under Peter) and the mystery Body of Christ, but you should not view their membership in the Kingdom Bride as a negative characteristic. Most people fail to realize that Paul's references to preaching the Gospel to the Jew first and then/also the Greek (like Romans 1:16) means that he is 'preaching the kingdom' (#1 = Acts 20:25) first to the Jews and then the 'gospel of the grace of God' (#2) to the Gentiles and Jews among them; as part of the 'whole purpose of God' (Acts 20:27). That is the practice of Paul 'before' the close of Acts (see 28:28, which is the reason you see none of this 'Jew first' lingo in his writings after 61 AD.

The ages to come will see Paul dwelling at the very top of the Mountain of God Pyramid "IN" Christ Jesus, while Peter scraps and claws and finally joins us by the skin of his teeth and by many WORKS.

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral

 

[dan p]

Hi Dan:



Please forgive, but Paul 'was' saved by obeying the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' in Acts 9, because at that time the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' was the only gospel in town!

Hi Terral , please forgive me also and from previous replies I knew that you held to this view and many Dispensationalist and Acts 28 people say the same thing , that Paul was saved under the Gospel of the Kingdom and even one our former Pastors who after many years , hold to the same thing and I see him every Sunday and refuses to engage me in the discussion and in his Acts 13 position .

From the CONTEXT , of Acts 9:6 , WHERE is the Water ? It is not there .!!!

Rom1:1 proves to all that when Paul was saved , there began the Body of Christ .
#2 , APHORIZO can be translated by the following English words , BOUNDARIES , SEPARATED and LIMITED and to me this settles the question , that when Paul was APRORIZO , boundaries were set and Paul was LIMITED to only preach the Gospel of God .

#3 , I have NEVER seen another verse , that says where Paul was saved , because we know and I agree that at the time that Paul was saved , the only preaching was by the 12 .

#4 , BUT IT WAS NOT PETER that talked to Paul , but the RISEN CHRIST .

#5 , And you know that this is an Acts 28:28 position .

#6 , Where is a verse that Paul was WATER BAPTIZED ???

#7 , Acts 9:17 is not it , because it talks about the " filling of Holy Spirit ."

 

[dan p]

"Paul has 'dual' membership in the Kingdom Bride 'and' the Body of Christ ... "

Terral,
Quite fascinating. In the light of his dual membership, where does he end up in the grand scheme of things?

Hi crossnote , and there are many dispensationalist that say that the 12 are in the Body of Christ and will also sit on 12 Thrones judging Israel , but 1 Cor 15:8 trumps and discards that idea , even when it is held by C. R. Stam , and I have every book that he has written , ROBERT C BROCK , a friend of C R Stam , forges ahead in Exegesis .

dan p

 

[Terral]

Hi Dan:

Hi Terral , please forgive me also and from previous replies I knew that you held to this view and many Dispensationalist and Acts 28 people say the same thing, that Paul was saved under the Gospel of the Kingdom and even one our former Pastors who after many years , hold to the same thing and I see him every Sunday and refuses to engage me in the discussion and in his Acts 13 position.

First of all, you and I have known each other for some time and we both know that the Dispensation of God's Grace began with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9. However, that does nothing to change the fact that the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' is the ONLY gospel in town at this stage in Acts 9! Ananias (Acts 9:10) is a Kingdom Disciple saved by obeying the same 'Gospel of the Kingdom' that he preached for Saul; unless you want to try and make him a member of Christ's Body 'before' Paul's conversion.

From the CONTEXT , of Acts 9:6 , WHERE is the Water ? It is not there .!!!

Where is the 'water' in Mark 1:4-5, or Acts 2:38? There is NONE mentioned, but each event includes the baptism for the 'forgiveness of sins' that is definitely by water.

Rom1:1 proves to all that when Paul was saved , there began the Body of Christ .

#2 , APHORIZO can be translated by the following English words , BOUNDARIES , SEPARATED and LIMITED and to me this settles the question , that when Paul was APRORIZO , boundaries were set and Paul was LIMITED to only preach the Gospel of God.

Both the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' AND the 'Gospel of the Grace of God' (#1 and #2) are the 'Gospel of God.' See Mark 1:14 for a reference to the 'gospel of the kingdom' (Matt. 4:23). The difference is that the Gospel of the Kingdom gathers Kingdom Disciples to become a Kingdom of Priests, while Paul's Gospel calls the members of Christ's Body to become rulers/kings/judges. Always remember that the 'whole purpose of God' (Acts 20:27) includes a body of judges (Body of Christ = Church #2) and an intercessory body of priests (Bride of Christ = Church #1). The fact that Paul's conversion begins the Body of Christ in NO WAY changes the 'message' that Ananias preached in Acts 9 for Paul's immediate obedience! Let me try to help you realize the truth of this statement by asking a question:

Who is carrying around the 'gospel of the grace of God' (Acts 20:24) in Acts 9? The answer is 'nobody.' Go back to Galatians 1 to realize that God reveals Christ in Paul at some point 'after' his original Acts 9 conversion through 'a revelation of Jesus Christ.' Gal. 1:11-12. Then realize that Paul's baptism in Acts 9 is definitely BY WATER, which is 'a work' done by human hands; which baptized him into the Holy Spirit to become a Kingdom Disciple like Peter, John and James. Paul had no way of realizing that he was the 'first' member of Christ's Body in Acts 9, which means he had no way of 'preaching' the Gospel of the Grace of God to anyone; until God revealed these things through a series of revelations.

#3 , I have NEVER seen another verse , that says where Paul was saved , because we know and I agree that at the time that Paul was saved , the only preaching was by the 12.

Basing your conclusions upon what "I have NEVER seen" seems a bit reckless IMHO. Also, you are throwing around the 'saved' lingo as if Kingdom Disciples and members of the Body of Christ have the same eternal security IN Christ Jesus; which they DO NOT. The sins that God forgave Paul through obeying the 'gospel of the kingdom' were revocable, but the sins forgiven by God's Grace through faith were placed upon His Only Begotten Son and settled at Calvary. Therefore, perhaps the time has come for Dan to understand the differences between Kingdom Doctrine for the Gospel of the Kingdom and Grace Doctrine for Paul's Gospel of the Grace of God.

#4 , BUT IT WAS NOT PETER that talked to Paul , but the RISEN CHRIST.

We agree! However, God is the one forgiving sins through A GOSPEL MESSAGE and the only GOSPEL MESSAGE in town at the time is the 'Gospel of the Kingdom.' Period. That is the 'message' heralded by Ananias that the Lord sent to Saul for his conversion, which made Saul into a Kingdom Disciple. If your suppositions were true, then God had no reason to send Ananias to assist Paul in the conversion process that required WORKS by human hands. Think about it, Dan: Paul is filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts 9:17 and 'after' Ananias lays hands on him. However, if hearing Christ's voice gave the Holy Spirit (by hearing = Gal. 3:2), then he would have received the Holy Spirit back in Acts 9 to start the chapter. Then realize that Ananias also obeyed the voice of Christ, but he is still only a Kingdom Disciple that received the 'three' kingdom baptisms (my Topic) to become a member of 'The Way.'

References to 'The Way' are made to describe 'the way' that a Kingdom Disciple passes through the Court (water witness = Fig 2) and through the Holy Place (blood witness) to enter the Holy of Holies (spirit witness) and receive the "Holy Spirit" by the laying of hands. All of this fulfills the 'Tabernacle of Moses/Temple' types in the Kingdom Disciple becoming one of a Kingdom of Priests to make intercession for citizens of Heaven to the Lamb of God in New Jerusalem 'Administration' (Eph. 1+3) between the Earth (abode of men) and the Heavens (abode of angels = yellow). Unfortunately for the Kingdom Disciple, he will work for all the ages to obtain what God has given the members of Christ Body for free. 'The Way' into the Holy of Holies places the Kingdom Disciple/Priest on the same 'water witness' ('Helper') Holy Spirit side (in light blue* = Fig 2) of 'The Word/Heaven' equation where they have stood from the beginning of time in the first place. The only 'Way' that any Kingdom Disciple-obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom-will join 'us' (saved by Paul's gospel) "IN" Christ Jesus-where I and the Father are One (in red*)-is through 'Judgment' (by 'us' = 1Cor. 6:2-3) that ends every age. Every Kingdom Disciple to join the members of Christ's Body-for all the ages to come-will bear a 'water mark' (denoting femininity/servitude/helper status) upon the Ephod (Wiki) covering his chest in Heaven (pic). The sons of God expend considerable fortune and effort and a multitude of works to eventually rid their heavenly garments of all water/blue/bronze markings, until maturity reveals the sign of the cross pointing directly to Calvary. ;0)]

#5 , And you know that this is an Acts 28:28 position.

The Hyper-Dispensationalists have just as much right to be wrong as the Progressives, Ultra's and Traditional Dispy's; but even a blind hog roots up an acorn now and then. ;0)

#6 , Where is a verse that Paul was WATER BAPTIZED??

Paul is baptized in water to become a Kingdom Disciple, by obeying the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' in Acts 9:18:

"So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after (A)laying his hands on him said, "(B)Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be (C)filled with the Holy Spirit. And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; and he took food and was strengthened." Acts 9:17-19.

These are the same 'laying of hands' and 'baptized' and 'filled with the Holy Spirit' phrases that you find in Acts 2:38, Acts 8:12-17 and Acts 19:1-6 at Pentecost, the people in Samaria and Paul's 'disciples' respectively.

#7 , Acts 9:17 is not it, because it talks about the "filling of Holy Spirit."

We agree! Kingdom Disciples are 'filled with the Holy Spirit' (like Stephen) while the members of Christ Body receive only an earnest (down payment) of our inheritance (Eph. 1:13-14) upon hearing and believing the Gospel of the Grace of God.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[JDS]

Terral



First of all, you and I have known each other for some time and we both know that the Dispensation of God's Grace began with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9. However, that does nothing to change the fact that the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' is the ONLY gospel in town at this stage in Acts 9! Ananias (Acts 9:10) is a Kingdom Disciple saved by obeying the same 'Gospel of the Kingdom' that he preached for Saul; unless you want to try and make him a member of Christ's Body 'before' Paul's conversion.

This is as far as I read Terral but I must say I am really sorry about your confusion on this point, but I don't think you will be helped by my kindness of refuting you gently with the scriptures. ......but I will try one time.

Ro 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

The church of Jesus Christ did not originate with Paul, he was commissioned to explain it. Maybe you know what the phrase "in Christ" means. I hope so!

 

[dan p]

Hi Dan:



First of all, you and I have known each other for some time and we both know that the Dispensation of God's Grace began with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9. However, that does nothing to change the fact that the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' is the ONLY gospel in town at this stage in Acts 9! Ananias (Acts 9:10) is a Kingdom Disciple saved by obeying the same 'Gospel of the Kingdom' that he preached for Saul; unless you want to try and make him a member of Christ's Body 'before' Paul's conversion.

Hi Terral , and I have to agree , that we agree 99 1/2% of the time and that is easy for me to say to you , BUT !!!

Where is there WATER in Acts 9:17 , says that Paul is being " FILLED WITH HOLY SPIRIT ", not water baptized .

It means that Paul is being filled with POWER /DUNAMIS Holy Spirit , as the Article is not used , and that does not mean the INDwelling of the Holy Spirit , and I learned that from Bullinger and Acts 28er .

You say that he was saved by the Preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom and need a verse that I can study , if you have one .

And also a verse where he was Water Baptized ??

 

[Terral]

Hi JDS:

This is as far as I read Terral but I must say I am really sorry about your confusion on this point, but I don't think you will be helped by my kindness of refuting you gently with the scriptures. ......but I will try one time.

Please 'quote >>' anything that appears off in my work and offer your supported argument for something else using Scripture, and please spare us your condescending drivel.

Ro 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Andronicus and Junia obeyed Paul's 'my gospel' (Rom. 2:16, 16:25) to become members of Christ's Body 'in his presence.' If you look at the Text (BLB), then you will see that the final word is 'pro' (#4253) and that 'me' is added. Paul is describing 'converts' (see Romans 16:5) that he personally presented the gospel of the grace of God (#2), so they could also be IN Christ Jesus ... too.

The church of Jesus Christ did not originate with Paul, he was commissioned to explain it. Maybe you know what the phrase "in Christ" means. I hope so!

Our Lord Jesus Christ gave Paul the 'gospel of the grace of God'(#2) through a series of 'revelations' (Gal. 1:11-12). Again, if anything in my work appears off, then 'quote me' and show everyone here what you got using Scripture. This side of the debate is not holding his breath.

My work on the Differences Between Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus is here. Maybe JDS will quote something and show us something on the deep end of the theology pool. ;0)

In Christ Jesus [Fig2],

Terral

 

[Terral]

Hi Terral , and I have to agree , that we agree 99 1/2% of the time and that is easy for me to say to you , BUT !!!

Where is there WATER in Acts 9:17 , says that Paul is being " FILLED WITH HOLY SPIRIT ", not water baptized .

You were given a line-by-line reply here and continue to ask the same questions.

It means that Paul is being filled with POWER /DUNAMIS Holy Spirit , as the Article is not used , and that does not mean the INDwelling of the Holy Spirit , and I learned that from Bullinger and Acts 28er.

Bullinger and Stam and Larkin are good for some things, but the limitations of their vision creates a blindness in some areas that is difficult to correct. I sow and water, but only God can cause the growth (1Cor. 3:6).

You say that he was saved by the Preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom and need a verse that I can study , if you have one.

And also a verse where he was Water Baptized ??

Go back to my original reply and perhaps we will have something to debate, because your answer is the title of the post.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[JDS]

Andronicus and Junia obeyed Paul's 'my gospel' (Rom. 2:16, 16:25) to become members of Christ's Body 'in his presence.' If you look at the Text (BLB), then you will see that the final word is 'pro' (#4253) and that 'me' is added. Paul is describing 'converts' (see Romans 16:5) that he personally presented the gospel of the grace of God (#2), so they could also be IN Christ Jesus ... too.

Ro 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.


Terral, These kinsmen were "in Christ" before Paul. He was not the one who got them there.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

1Co 12:20 But now [are they] many members, yet but one body.


Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


These verses need no explanation.They clearly refute your two bodies doctrine.

 

[crossnote]

Bullinger and Stam and Larkin are good for some things, but the limitations of their vision creates a blindness in some areas that is difficult to correct.
Terral

Terral,
Those three I suppose represent the three Dispensational positions of Pentecost,Mid-Acts, and Acts28. Where do you 'fit' or find yourself closest align with?

 

[Terral]

Hi JDS:

Terral, These kinsmen were "in Christ" before Paul. He was not the one who got them there.

That is your incorrect assumption, because JDS does not know the differences between the 'Two Gospels' of the NT (my Topic), nor the 'Two Churches' (my Topic), nor the Four Baptisms (my Topic) for Kingdom Disciples (3) and members of the Body of Christ (1). BTW, the question here is about whether Paul was baptized in Acts 9:17 if you ever want to address the topic ...

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Everyone to obey Paul's 'gospel of the grace of God' (Acts 20:24) is a member of Christ Body, while those to whom he is "preaching the Kingdom" (Acts 20:25) are disciples of the Prophetic Kingdom 'Bride' (Church #1).

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of ....

These verses need no explanation.They clearly refute your two bodies doctrine.

Quoting the entire Bible without any commentary proves nothing to anyone. JDS does not offer any explanation for the Scripture he misuses, because he has no explanation at all. The fact is that JDS has distorted the 'wisdom given him' (Paul) to 'his own destruction' (2Peter 3:14-16), because he fails to realize that our Risen Lord gave Paul Gospel #2; 'according to the revelation of the mystery.' Romans 16:25. But that is the topic of another thread ...

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Terral]

Hi Crossnote:

Terral,
Those three I suppose represent the three Dispensational positions of Pentecost,Mid-Acts, and Acts28. Where do you 'fit' or find yourself closest align with?

There are many more than just three kinds of Dispys, but most people toss me in with the C.R. Stam Ultra-Mid Acts-Dispy crowd; because I understand that the Dispensation of God's Grace began with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9. There is no group of Dispy's that hold to all of my Bible interpretations, but I write here because the Dispensationalists in general are the nearest thing to real members of Christ's Body (#2) on the internet.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[ARBITER01]

Oh look, Terral is back with his little charts that no one understands except him.