Was Paul Trinitarian?

[Mr. M]

1 Corinthians 15: 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

The Son claimed that all authority had been granted unto Him by His Father. His equality is based on 'granted authority', as foreshadowed by Joseph in Egypt.

Genesis 41:40. You shall be over my house, and all my people shall be ruled according to your word; only in regard to the throne will I be greater than you.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Paul in Romans 8 gloriously affirms Father, Son and Holy Spirit; his doctrine of God in Three Persons is not in any measure opposed to - for example - the Apostle John's glorious affirmations on this great subject.

 

[Mr. M]

Paul in Romans 8 gloriously affirms Father, Son and Holy Spirit; his doctrine of God in Three Persons is not in any measure opposed to - for example - the Apostle John's glorious affirmations on this great subject.

Okay... but the question is in regards to 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. Especially the portions underlined in the post. All flowery poetic language aside.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Okay... but the question is in regards to 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. Especially the portions underlined in the post. All flowery poetic language aside.

Equality and subjection are not contradictory; Philippians 2 shows this, the equal Son ... obedient unto death. Nothing in 1 Cor. 15 contradicts this.

 

[Albion]

The quoted part doesn't negate the doctrine of the Trinity because the work of any of the three persons of God is not disconnected from the other two and not done by beings other than the one God.

 

[Mr. M]

the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

So there is no heirarchy expressed in this statement?

 

[Mr. M]

Equality and subjection are not contradictory; Philippians 2 shows this, the equal Son ... obedient unto death. Nothing in 1 Cor. 15 contradicts this.

So you are saying God in one person being subject to God (Himself) in another person?

 

[Barney2.0]

The Son is subject to the Father in authority, this doesn’t contradict the trinity at all. The Son was begotten by the Father before all creation, the Son lives to do the will of the Father.

 

[Mr. M]

Philippians 2 shows this, the equal Son .

So Paul saying that Jesus did not consider equality to God something he could seize upon, means that he believes they were equal?

 

[Mr. M]

The Son is subject to the Father in authority, this doesn’t contradict the trinity at all. The Son was begotten by the Father before all creation, the Son lives to do the will of the Father.

John 5:30. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
So Jesus here was confessing subjection and obedience to His Father, while at the same time being equal to the Father?

 

[Albion]

So Paul saying that Jesus did not consider equality to God something he could seize upon, means that he believes they were equal?

What he said, as recorded in verses 5-8, was that being equal to the father was something that people wouldn't be able to comprehend and accept, so he did not assert such a thing.

 

[Mr. M]

What he said, as recorded in verses 5-8, was that being equal to the father was something that people wouldn't be able to comprehend and accept, so he did not assert such a thing.

John 5:18. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
So the Jews felt that by claiming to be the Son of God, he was making Himself equal to God. So, that is in fact what He was claiming?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Paul never addressed or referred to the Holy Spirit as a person.

 

[Mr. M]

Paul never addressed or referred to the Holy Spirit as a person

Acts 20:23. except that the Holy Spirit testifies in every city, saying that chains and tribulations await me.
So when the Holy Spirit instructed Paul, or any of the other Apostles by speaking to them, this was not with words, as a person? Then how?

 

[Albion]

John 5:18. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
So the Jews felt that by claiming to be the Son of God, he was making Himself equal to God. So, that is in fact what He was claiming?

What the Jews thought doesn't contradict the verses referred to in the previous post. And of course, the Jews at that time had no concept of the triune nature of God, but only of the singularity of God, that there are not many gods.

 

[SkyWriting]

1 Corinthians 15: 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

The Son claimed that all authority had been granted unto Him by His Father. His equality is based on 'granted authority', as foreshadowed by Joseph in Egypt.

Genesis 41:40. You shall be over my house, and all my people shall be ruled according to your word; only in regard to the throne will I be greater than you.

Who did Paul repent to?

 

[Barney2.0]

John 5:30. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
So Jesus here was confessing subjection and obedience to His Father, while at the same time being equal to the Father?

He is equal to the Father in terms of essence:

So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does. And to your amazement, He will show Him even greater works than these. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wishes. Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

John 5:19-29

It’s always good to read the context of certain verses such as these, the Father is greater then the Son in authority, not in essence, the Son does everything his Father does, and since he’s not a separate god from the Father, he acts in unity with him which is why he says “I do not my own will, but of he who sent me.” Christ and the Father are one in will, everything the Father does the Son does also.

 

[faroukfarouk]

So you are saying God in one person being subject to God (Himself) in another person?

I'll stick to the language of Scripture about the subject Son, equal and obedient.

In the Gospels we read: 'I go unto my Father'. We never read the Father saying: 'I go unto my Son'.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Paul never addressed or referred to the Holy Spirit as a person.

Paul says in Ephesians 4.30: 'Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God'. The Spirit is not a mere idea or influence, but a Person Who is God.

 

[Paul4JC]

I and the Father are one. Jn 10:30