Was Mary without sin?

[simonthezealot]

First off, there is the question,, how can someone be "full of grace" if they are in sin?? its impossible, contradiction in terms...

Your D/R translation is an inaccurate one. check the 15 translations for comparison.
Plus Stephen was full of grace was he sinless also?

Mary is in a way an "ark" for Jesus.. An unpure thing cannot house something that is pure.. it would be like oil and water.....

Are you denying that through God any and everything is possible?

There is nothing in the bible that says Mary was with other men.. IF she was and had other children it would have been recorded.. .....

You apparently haven't read alot of the NT.

Mary appeared to Saint Catherine Labouré and told her to produce a medal that said "O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee."

Maybe it was satan masquerading as Mary. Test all spirits!

 

[BereanTodd]

I answered yes.

This does not mean that I necessarily think that Our Lady, when on earth, never ever did or said anything wrong. It means that I believe her saying 'yes' to God is such an important yes that it outweighs every other consideration, meaning that in contrast with my sins, or those of anyone else, hers are as nothing. Our Lady did not come short; she bowed her will to that of God.

According to the Bible all of our righteousness is like a filthy menstral rag in God's sight. That includes that of Mary. No one can do any amount of good to merrit God's favor. That why it's called grace, grace is unmerrited favor, and what was Mary full of? Grace. It wasn't that she merrited it, it wasn't that she earned it, it's that God had grace on her.

She could not be good enough to outweigh her sins, no human ever has been able to. That is why the cross was nescasary.

Therefore, she is now without sin. God has forgotten her sins, so it is not for any of us to remember them.

The same is true of any other saint in heaven, even though they would all rank below Our Lady. All are without sin now, and it is not for me to remember what they may or may not have done here on earth, if God does not remember.

All of us in glory will be free from sin/without sin. This is about what we are here on earth though.

 

[Catherineanne]

Humor me and provide it, though we'd have to start with your concept of sin if we're really going to get into the issue.

Spoken by Our Lord:

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

 

[CuriousInIL]

Ask yourself one question.

Did Mary, the Mother of Jesus, die? The answer: yes.

"For the wages of sin is death..."

Thus, she sinned and is now dead. Mary considered herself a servant of the Lord (see Luke 1), and considered herself blessed to bear the Christ within her for nine months and to be His earthly mother.

But she was a sinner, like us. That is why she is dead and her soul is in Heaven. I see no mention of her reigning in Heaven or holding "special status."

None of them can tell you, because their church won't tell them whether she died or not...

But she did!

What is the proof that Mary died?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Mary was human. Humans Die.

We would need proof that she DIDN'T.

 

[Catherineanne]

Mary was human. Humans Die.

We would need proof that she DIDN'T.

Spoken by Our Lord:

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Spoken by Our Lord:

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

what does this have to do with proving Mary didn't die? We are talking physical death, which we all experience. The argument "they are alive" doesn't mean they did not experience physical death.

JESUS experienced physical death, and he was arguably more alive than any human can claim.

 

[Angeldove97]

Mary, Mother of God, was without sin for the various reasons other people have stated.

 

[Myriah]

I voted no because I believe Jesus or the apostles would have mentioned it if this were so.

However, do I truly know 100% for sure if she was sinless/not sinless? No, I don't. I think only God knows that, but if it were so, I do believe Jesus and the apostles would have written about it. So, I voted "no".

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Calm, the RCCs though will tell you that no she didn't die, she was "assumed" up into heaven bodily, and never tasted death ...

The Orthodox Christians say she did die and was assumed on the third day after her death by Christ God himself as witnessed by the Apostles.

The text that I could give you from chapter 28, "The Dormition of Our Most Holy Lady the THEOTOKOS and EVER-VIRGIN MARY (the Memory of which the Holy Church Celebrates on 15th of August)", of "The Life of the Virgin Mary, The Theotokos" ISBN 0-944359-03-5, published widely throughout The Orthodox Church, is 47 pages long.

She was not born without the stain of original sin, however, she did lead a blameless life.

Blameless but not sinless.

Forgive me...

 

[AngCath]

what does this have to do with proving Mary didn't die? We are talking physical death, which we all experience. The argument "they are alive" doesn't mean they did not experience physical death.

JESUS experienced physical death, and he was arguably more alive than any human can claim.

ummm, Enoch and Elijah did not suffer physical death.

 

[IamAdopted]

ummm, Enoch and Elijah did not suffer physical death.

Yet... Look at the two witnesses in revelation..

 

[IamAdopted]

This teaching did not even come into being until the 5th century. It originated with the heretics Pelagius and Celestius and was universally rejected by the Fathers and Popes of the early church.

 

[AngCath]

Yet... Look at the two witnesses in revelation..

my point is that there are exceptions to the norm of life and death.

 

[mister_e]

Having read these postings, I was beginning to think I was in the 'speculation' section, not the 'theology' section!

Surely we can only go by what the Bible says?

'ALL have sinned... There is no one righteous, not even one'

That would pretty much wrap the whole debate up?

 

[Latreia]

"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor hath it entered into the heart of man that which the Lord hath prepared for him."

How can spiritual grace be dissected in a science lab?

Since all human understanding can only be conveyed by the languages and definitions and meanings assigned by people to communicate their worldy experiences, there must be error and failures to comprehend the Divine.

Why torture faith with mistrust and deceits? Look very closely at those in such a hurry to find fault and flaws in everything Christians hold sacred.

Are we not to follow only our Savior, to live in His teachings, and to serve only our Lord God?

You shall not find spiritual truth by dissecting flesh and opinions and only that which is without grace and spiritual beauty.

Is it too much to ask to simply believe, peacefully, in the beauty of the Blessed Mary as Mother of God in Jesus Christ? Her spiritual beauty and merciful smile has comforted so very many who had nowhere else to turn. There are many ways to reach Christ, this is one of the most gracious.

Jesus waits for us to come to Him.

 

[Iollain]

Spoken by Our Lord:

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Jesus was confirming that there is a resurrection of the dead, the Sadducees did not believe there was to be a resurrection, or a spirit, or anything, they believed you were snuffed out like a candle and that was it. The bodily resurrection is the glorious point for Christians who are passed on.

 

[Iollain]

Did St. Paul say, "all have sinned, except for Christ"? No, he said ALL have sinned, so either he meant everyone or (obviously) he didnt mean EVERYONE...if the Lord is exempt, why not His HOLY mother?

Because she is human, she is under the fall of Adam, she was going to sheol with no hope of redemption without Jesus, as all humans are. Does not matter if she followed the Mosaic Laws or not, which she was under, being Jewish, for the Law does not save you and will not save you.

 

[Latreia]

Because she is human, she is under the fall of Adam, she was going to sheol with no hope of redemption without Jesus, as all humans are. Does not matter if she followed the Mosaic Laws or not, which she was under, being Jewish, for the Law does not save you and will not save you.

I have not seen your words here in the Holy Scriptures.

Could this be your own interpretation?

Are you infallible?

Such could infer that God has not the omniscience nor the omnipotence to command his own Children.

 

[Uphill Battle]

ummm, Enoch and Elijah did not suffer physical death.

you're right! and we have a record of the fact that they did not! Right there in the bible!

no such record exists for Mary.