"He knows everything" is not meant as all absolute everything.
Jesus did not know the day of his second coming. Not knowing one things make him NOT knowing everything.
Stop playing with words
Upvote
0
By the way, Maite Els has identified herself as a female.
I know she is playing with words when she wants to affirm the difference between "God is omniscient" and "God has the attribute of omniscience".
My simple point is that which is affirmed in 1 John 3:20:
Oz
Now you are wanting to reconstruct "he knows everything" to mean "he does not know everything". That's called a contradiction and you have created it."He knows everything" is not meant as all absolute everything.
Jesus did not know the day of his second coming. Not knowing one things make him NOT knowing everything.
Stop playing with words
Lewis & Demarest provide the biblical evidence from the Gospels [verses which I have given in square brackets - taken from Lewis & Demarest] that Jesus was omniscient while here on earth. The fact that he chose not to exercise this in relation to his second coming does not negate the fact that Jesus demonstrated his omniscience as the God/Man while on earth. These are the biblical facts.The fact that on occasion Jesus' knowledge was limited confirms his authentic humanity [as in the time of his return to earth; Mk 13:32; Mt 24:36].... We observe that this self-chosen ignorance is not error, for the Gospels represent Jesus as entirely without fault or sin (Matt. 27:4; Luke 1:35; 23:41). Other texts in the Gospels ... indicate that on other occasions Jesus drew upon his divine power of omniscience [see Mt 26:21-25, 31-35; Lk 5:21-22; 6:7-8; 9:46-47; 11:17] (Lewis & Demarest 1990:322-323).
You used a red herring logical fallacy with this response to me. We can't have a rational discussion when you do this.Jesus did not know the day of his second coming
Jesus did not know what was given to him to drink at the cross.
Jesus didnt know who was the person that touched him and got healed.
Jesus didnt knot the arrest of John the baptist
Jesus didnt know the dead of john the baptist
Jesus didnt know of the death of Lazarus
Jesus didnt know where lazarus body was.
Way too many thing for somebody that knows everything.
That's called a contradiction and you have created it.
By the way, Maite Els has identified herself as a female.
I know she is playing with words when she wants to affirm the difference between "God is omniscient" and "God has the attribute of omniscience".
My simple point is that which is affirmed in 1 John 3:20:
Oz
Yes, indeed.
Please go back to the content of what I wrote in #303 and your reply at #304. That's the red herring about which I am speaking, but you want to deflect again with another red herring logical fallacy.The point you want we get distracted is that Jesus didnt know a lot of things makes him not knowing all. You are the one distracting as in Red Herring.
Whe we read that Jesus knew all we have to undertans that it was an expresion. If you read the context you will see that Jesus didnt demostrate to know absolutely everything that can be known. He did demostrate having a superior knowledge a knowledge that makes unnecesary for some other telling him things.
Please do not distrac us by Red Herring this treath.
We see Jesus' omniscience demonstrated while on earth in what we have revealed in the Gospels.Yes, indeed.
The point is.
The NT is saying that Jesus was not omniscient. And the evidence is so clear that you have not any argument to present. but any way, you dont want to accept the truth.
However, I would not say He was "omniscient" because just as clearly, there was at least one thing He did not know.
I would speculate that Jesus understood that whatever knowledge He did not have, the Father had a reason for sealing it from Him, and He was totally okay with that.
He is the God/Man. His spiritual nature was and is always God. He never had a different spirit. He was fully God and fully man, but did not use the fullness of His abilities, only what was necessary. If Beethoven was sent to kindergarden to teach kids how to play "Mary Had A Little Lamb", would he need to give them all he had in a shock and awe performance, or humble himself to their level and start with a few notes? They wouldn't grasp the complexity, it would be overwhelming.
Now, I'm going to disagree with you here, I think.
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:5-8).
Jesus did not lie when He said that He did no know the time of His second coming. He did not know it.
We see Jesus' omniscience demonstrated while on earth in what we have revealed in the Gospels.
Matthew 26:21-25, '21 And as they were eating, he said, Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me. 22 And they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, Is it I, Lord? 23 He answered, He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born. 25 Judas, who would betray him, answered, Is it I, Rabbi? He said to him, You have said so. (ESV).
These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.
Matthew 26: 31-35, '31 Then Jesus said to them, You will all fall away because of me this night. For it is written, I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered. 32 But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee. 33 Peter answered him, Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away. 34 Jesus said to him, Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows, you will deny me three times. 35 Peter said to him, Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you! And all the disciples said the same (ESV).
These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.
Luke 5:21-22, '21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to question, saying, Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone? 22 When Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answered them, Why do you question in your hearts? (ESV).
These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.
Luke 6:7-8, '7 And the scribes and the Pharisees watched him, to see whether he would heal on the Sabbath, so that they might find a reason to accuse him. 8 But he knew their thoughts, and he said to the man with the withered hand, Come and stand here. And he rose and stood there' (ESV).
These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.
Luke 9:46-47, '46 An argument arose among them as to which of them was the greatest. 47 But Jesus, knowing the reasoning of their hearts, took a child and put him by his side' (ESV).
These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.
Luke 11:17, 'But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls' (ESV).
This verse demonstrates Jesus' omniscience.
That there were times when Jesus' omniscience was deferred to another member of the Godhead is obvious from Jesus not knowing the time of his second coming. However, my understanding is that this is a function of omniscience in the Godhead. It is not to deny Jesus' omniscience while on earth.
I will not have fullest understanding of how the Trinitarian God's omniscience functions until I'm in his presence. I wonder if that will be an issue then.
Oz
Back in post #273 I said:
I disagreed with you about your nattering over "omniscient" applied to the Father. The Son was not omniscient...but just as clearly, He knew what He needed to know when He needed to know it.
So what's your problem?
Now, I'm going to disagree with you here, I think.
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:5-8).
Jesus did not lie when He said that He did no know the time of His second coming. He did not know it.
"He did not know"
Finnaly you undertand that he did not know everything.
Thanks
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?