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Featured Was Jesus Himself an Actual "Feminist" in a way? Yes or no?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Lik3, Dec 6, 2017 at 10:53 AM.

  1. Lik3

    Lik3 Newbie

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    During His ministry, Jesus forgave an adulteress who was about to be stoned. At that time in Jewish society, women were below men "on the totem pole" so to speak. He also healed women who were demon possessed and even healed a woman with an issue of blood. Despite the fact that women were considered lower than men in that society, Jesus respected women. He treated them with more respect than many in the society.

    The Holy Spirit impregnated a young woman, who gave birth to the Messiah, and it were women who first saw a resurrected Lord Jesus. I have asked about feminism and even read about how feminism has benefited women. Men and woman will both be judged by the Lord. Men and women were both created by the Holy Trinity. I believe that Genesis 1, it says, "Let us make men in the image of God". Correct me if I am wrong there.

    However, I believe that there is a difference between actual feminism and radical feminism. Actual feminism deals with equal rights, but it is respectful of the differences between men and women. In that way, women were to be respected and not demeaned and objectified, and also to be treated as a weaker vessel (I think that is how the Bible interprets it.) Paul has said that he does not permit women to "teach", not "preach", "teach" or usurp authority over a man, he was not being sexist. Women were playing a great part in the ministries of the New Testament, and even the Old Testament, where for example, Deborah was a Judge, Esther saved her people from destruction, and Ruth was respected for all time for her dignity and her character. Having written all of that, the Bible does not promote the objectification of women and treating women badly. In my view, that is what actual feminism was about.

    However, I am not a fan of radical feminism for their is much too ungodly compared to actual feminism. They do promote the rights of women, but there are views that I disagree with, such as the right to choose in terms of abortion. I believe that once a child is conceived, he, she, or they are human beings who grow inside the mother's womb. It is no longer just her body. That child or children will be the focus of her life because she has the role, as well as the father, to take care of the child or children in terms of standing up for them when they are being bullied, protecting them, feed and clothed them, bathe them, and just love them. I don't agree with radical feminism. My question is, did Jesus or would Jesus promote actual, but not radical feminism? Was He a "Feminist" in a way? Women were considered not property, or lower than men, but were treated as living, breathing human beings. Can men not just agree with actual feminism, but can they be "feminist" too?
     
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  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Our six grandchildren Supporter

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    I would submit that Jewish society was more egalitarian than you give it credit for. Do not conflate Jewish society with the Greko/Roman society, or even the Samaritan society; as they were all quite different.
     
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  3. Dave-W

    Dave-W Our six grandchildren Supporter

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    Actually I would not call that feminism at all. It is egalitarianism.

    True feminism wants to delete male humans from existence.
     
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  4. JackRT

    JackRT "Karma" can bite you in the butt

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    The historical Jesus seems to have been gender blind. Paul was too but by the time the Pastoral Epistles were written almost a century later patriarchy was back firm control. Recent events mark another step in the eventual demise of that evil institution.
     
  5. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Even back in the Old Testament, there was balance and justice. God has ALWAYS had a heart for widows, orphans, and those in dire straits. Jesus reflected that. His heart was/is ALWAYS for the repentant, and against hypocrits.

    In the Old Testament, there were daughters who came to Moses asking for an "inheritance" to be a'righted, because there were no sons in the family. Moses a'righted it with God's blessing.

    It has nothing to do with "feminism".

    It has to do with justice.

    He is a JUST God.
     
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  6. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    Women should be treated just like men...with kindness and respect
     
  7. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    I think using the term "feminist" for Jesus is too narrow. It wasn't only women He was elevating (though that may be primary) to a more equitable level of dignity.....it was all of "the least of these" (the crippled beggar, children, Lazarus, etc). Instead of a structure of hierarchy, I see Jesus as promoting that we see people on an individual basis (taking time, if possible, to see them as more than their social status or labels based on quick external observation).
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 1:25 PM
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  8. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    I just read the other day an interesting perspective on the message of the parable of the unnamed rich man and Lazarus. The author I was reading (Brian Zahnd) wrote that this parable was in response to the Pharisees of Jesus' day who saw wealth and health as signs of God's favor and believed sickness and poverty were punishments sent by God. In telling this parable, Zahnd describes that "He confers dignity upon the indigent and infirm beggar by giving him a name while leaving the prominent tycoon nameless, thus hinting at the impending reversal of fortunes".

    When we read the Bible through that lens of being a main message (the two masters we can serve are either God/love or Power/wealth....but in the end that will all be upended)...I think we can see a whole different message. There are people today (that are self-proclaimed Christians) that refuse the message of how to love others just like the Pharisees did (and many of Jesus' parables were about that...the Prodigal Son is another one).

    Recognizing a person's humanity (instead of "the Samaritan woman", for instance) is how we love others.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 11:48 AM
  9. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member

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    Lazarus also means "God is my help", which would be an ironically appropriate name considering the point Jesus was trying to make, that the Kingdom of God is a great reversal hidden under seeming absurdity.
     
  10. JackRT

    JackRT "Karma" can bite you in the butt

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    I know this the belief of the Saduccees but I am not at all sure about the Pharisees.
     
  11. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Both are anti-Scripture.
    No, Yahweh and Yeshua were never approving of such things.
    Yahweh's Salvation, Healing, in Yeshua,
    is shown clearly through His Word, against man's ways, and for truth and life as He Knows Perfectly.
     
  12. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    I think you mean with kindness and respect, (if they were treated just like men, they would not like it, as me are treated so much differently in many ways, necessarily so)
    as Yahweh's Word (TORAH) says , not as man says (especially regarding respect, which man's way is so far off) ....

    Followers of Yahweh , in faith in Jesus, treat everyone as Yahweh says to,
    when they are mature, and often as soon as they are born again (since they have a pure heart, even though there may be a lot of old baggage to relieve them of also, and that may take some time) ....
     
  13. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    I am just relaying what the author wrote (I'm not certain myself). It would make sense to me that culturally (just as it is currently) in general, the wealthy were held in higher regard than the impoverished (and that's the attitude I believe Jesus was addressing).
     
  14. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    Feminism =


    fem·i·nism
    ˈfeməˌnizəm/
    noun
    1. the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

      *********************************************************

      Equality of humanity seems to be the thread that is all throughout Scripture. But....I understand people can see what they want to see (and miss what they'd rather ignore).
     
  15. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Are you saying that's why you apparently ignore all that Scripture says about all of this all the way through ?

    Have you read Scripture all the way through and been given understanding of it from the Father in heaven ? That is our goal, everyone who calls on Him, and who was called by Him for His Purpose.

    Otherwise, the carnal mind, the old flesh, cannot comprehend the truth nor see what is spiritual and truth.

    Yahweh knows perfectly what is best for everyone and any one, for each one, and He never, no never, not once makes a mistake.

    Feminism is all of its forms started out from the enemy , opposed to Christ, and grew and grew and grew IN and OF the world/ flesh/ society.
    As it is written, the wicked will grow more wicked.

    The righteous , as it is written, also grow and grow and grow IN RIGHTEOUSNESS according to God's Own Word and Plan and Description.
    As it is written, the rightoues will grow more righteous.

    There is no contradiction in God's Word nor in His Plan of Salvation in Jesus.

    There are many deviations by men, errors and distractions and sinfulness.
    The enemy of Christ is responsible for many , many propositions in society,
    which is under his control until Jesus returns.
    He of course 'presents it all' as if it was oh so good and right and necessary,
    thus deceiving most all of the world and populations everywhere.

    God's Way is Clear in Scripture, and right and best for everyone, everywhere,
    as God Says and as God Accomplishes daily, and then finally, when Jesus returns,
    and eternally !
     
  16. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    I will have to do some searching.....but a wise person who posts here has said, "the Bible is like a Rorschach test" (and actually......I just found out that's a quote from Zahnd's book. BZ wrote "our interpretation of the text reveals more about ourselves than about God” (p. 14, Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God). ). I'm seeing this to be a good observation these days.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 11:52 AM
  17. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    You're using a lot of words here, but not really saying much (except for spewing contempt for what you're calling feminism).

    I think a proper first step is to first define our "enemy" and what those characteristics are (based on what we believe about God in Jesus).
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 3:39 PM
  18. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think Jesus choosing a woman in that had anything to do with feminism.

    Jesus was talking to men who were the ones who did the stoning and His point is not that He forgave a woman for adultery, although He certainly did that.

    The stronger point was spiritual when Jesus challenged the men and said that the one without sin should cast the first stone at her.

    The point was that the ones who were going to kill her look inward at themselves and examine whether they had sin or not, because the Law is you break one law, you have broken all of the law.

    Jesus wanted to help the margianalized in society, the widows, orphans, and women in that case because they had no rights or little.

    Jesus helped the one with no power to help themselves and asked those with the power to examine themselves.
     
  19. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I think the parable is more a generalized example on how we should live, not so much an attack on specific religious groups.
     
  20. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Something else interesting is Jesus refers to Himself as the Bridegroom and the Church as the bride. However, we know much of the church is men.

    God created each sex differently and with strengths and weaknesses, to work together in marriage and the family.

    Don't try to look for feminism in the Bible because it doesn't exist. God gave us all roles
     
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