Was It Appropriate for Thomas to Address Yeshua as "My God"?

Minister Monardo · Jun 26, 2020

Hebrews 1:8, 9. But to the Son He says:
Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

In this verse, the Spirit informs that the Psalmist,
speaking by the same Spirit, is declaring the Son of God.

Psalm 45:
6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
elohiym elohiym

Jipsah · Jun 26, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Was It Appropriate for Thomas to Address Yeshua as "My God"?

Of course it was!

Dave L · Jun 26, 2020

solid_core said:
If your oponent sees the LXX and the KJV (strange combination, the KJV does not use the LXX) as authoritative.

Jesus and the disciples used the LXX.

HARK! · Jun 26, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Was It Appropriate for Thomas to Address Yeshua as "My God"?

Why would you assume that he did?

Minister Monardo said:
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Did not YHWH dwell within the body temple of Yahshua?

Could not have Thomas recognized this?:

“My Master Yahshua, and my El YHWH!”

solid_core · Jun 26, 2020

Dave L said:
Jesus and the disciples used the LXX.

I kind of agree. Not all their quotes agrees with the LXX, because in the first century the text of Scriptures was not normalized and there were many versions around.

But generally, their quotes agree with the LXX more than with so called masoretic text which is in the KJV.

ChetSinger · Jun 26, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Was It Appropriate for Thomas to Address Yeshua as "My God"?

In a word, yes:

From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours. - 2 Peter

It trains us to reject godless ways and worldly desires and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. - Titus

ChetSinger · Jun 26, 2020

solid_core said:
Is it not obvious? Because the opponent can say that he goes with a different textual variant.

That is one of the reasons one of my favorite translations is the NET: it has a wealth of footnotes that often reveal verses where textual variations occur, and the reasons why scholars choose one over another.

Here's the verse in the NET:

Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.

And here's the footnote that explains why they chose Jesus:

The reading ᾿Ιησοῦς (Ihsous, “Jesus”) is deemed too hard by several scholars, since it involves the notion of Jesus acting in the early history of the nation Israel. However, not only does this reading enjoy the strongest support from a variety of early witnesses (e.g., A B 33 81 1241 1739 1881 2344 pc vg co Or1739mg), but the plethora of variants demonstrate that scribes were uncomfortable with it, for they seemed to exchange κύριος (kurios, “Lord”) or θεός (qeos, “God”) for ᾿Ιησοῦς (though Ì72 has the intriguing reading θεὸς Χριστός [qeos Cristos, “God Christ”] for ᾿Ιησοῦς). In addition to the evidence supplied in NA27 for this reading, note also {88 322 323 424c 665 915 2298 eth Cyr Hier Bede}. As difficult as the reading ᾿Ιησοῦς is, in light of v. 4 and in light of the progress of revelation (Jude being one of the last books in the NT to be composed), it is wholly appropriate.

And even the variants that say "the Lord" refer to Jesus, since Jesus is identified as "the Lord" in the immediately preceding verse.

So I think it's safe to say that Jesus was Jude's intention when he wrote this.

Der Alte · Jun 26, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
John 20:
24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!”
27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Why is this even a question? If it was improper for Thomas to address Jesus as "my God" Jesus would have corrected/criticized Thomas then and there. Instead Jesus praised Him vs. 29.

Minister Monardo · Jun 26, 2020

This verse appears to be relevant.

John 20:17. Jesus said to her, Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father;
but go to My brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father,
and to My God and your God.

nolidad · Jun 26, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
John 20:
24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!”
27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Of course! Jesus was ands is Thomas' God!

Archivist · Jun 26, 2020

Was It Appropriate for Thomas to Address Yeshua as "My God"?

Thomas did provide a great line for the musical Sister Act:

"Nothing you could say could tear me away from my God, (my God) Nothing you could do, 'cause I'm stuck like glue to my God, (my God, my God)."

Minister Monardo · Jun 26, 2020

HARK! said:
Why would you assume that he did?

Did not YHWH dwell within the body temple of Yahshua?

Could not have Thomas recognized this?:

“My Master Yahshua, and my El YHWH!”

Could this be what you are making reference?
John 14:
7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
No reference is made to YHWH since Yeshua only referred to "The Father". He must have had some insight into the significance of that name that He was not willing to disclose.

eleos1954 · Jun 26, 2020

Was It Appropriate for Thomas to Address Yeshua as "My God"?

Evidentially was appropriate ... Jesus didn't correct Him in saying what he said.

HARK! · Jun 26, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Could this be what you are making reference?
John 14:
7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
No reference is made to YHWH since Yeshua only referred to "The Father". He must have had some insight into the significance of that name that He was not willing to disclose.

He answered by the same reference that by he was asked.

Dkh587 · Jun 26, 2020

Maybe he was thinking of this prophesy:

Zecheriah 12:10

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Minister Monardo · Jun 26, 2020

Der Alte said:
Why is this even a question? If it was improper for Thomas to address Jesus as "my God" Jesus would have corrected/criticized Thomas then and there. Instead Jesus praised Him vs. 29.

The issue being addressed in the narrative is the unbelief of Thomas. v. 29 is hardly praise for him.
Blessed are those (including us) who believe without having to stick our hand in Messiah's side.
I do not see anything inappropriate in his exclamation "My Lord and My God!", but it was unusual, as if he had a flash of insight. If we compare this to the narrative of when Yeshua asked "who do you say that I Am?"
Matthew 16:
16 Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
This confession of faith is stated in other places, such as John 11:27 by Martha, sister of Lazarus.
"My Lord and My God!" for me is appropriate. Yeshua may be the Son of God, but for me, he is God, because "no one comes to the Father, except by Him."

2PhiloVoid · Jun 26, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
John 20:
24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!”
27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Let me think about it for a moment. Uh...............................Yes, it was (and still Is)!

Minister Monardo · Jun 26, 2020

2PhiloVoid said:
Let me think about it for a moment. Uh...............................Yes, it was (and still Is)!

While I agree, He still makes a clear distinction.
John 20:17. Jesus said to her, Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father;
but go to My brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father,
and to My God and your God.

Minister Monardo · Jun 26, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Yes. Jesus never rebuked Him for saying such a thing.

I agree.
Are you maintaining this clear distinction?
John 20:17. Jesus said to her, Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father;
but go to My brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father,
and to My God and your God.

Minister Monardo · Jun 26, 2020

eleos1954 said:
Evidentially was appropriate ... Jesus didn't correct Him in saying what he said.

The issue being addressed in the narrative is the unbelief of Thomas.
v. 29 Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed.
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. That's us!

I do not see anything inappropriate in his exclamation "My Lord and My God!", but it was unusual, as if he had a flash of insight. If we compare this to the narrative of when Yeshua asked "who do you say that I Am?"
Matthew 16:
16 Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
This confession of faith is stated in other places, such as John 11:27 by Martha, sister of Lazarus.

"My Lord and My God!" for me is appropriate. Yeshua may be the Son of God, but for me, he is God, because "no one comes to the Father, except by Him."

Was It Appropriate for Thomas to Address Yeshua as "My God"?

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