Was Hilter a Christian or not?

[whitestar]

Since people on my other thread, seem to want to discuss Hilter so much, I thought I would start a new thread in order to keep my other one from becoming a big debate over whether Hilter was a Christian or not. About the only thing I know for sure he is did have Jews, Christians and even his own German people killed, along with countless others from other countries. Hilter may or may not have claimed to be a Christian....anyone can claim to be a Christian or of any other faith for that matter....but whether they really are is another matter.

Jesus gave us two commandments to follow and Hilter was obviously not following either of them (both of those commandments are about love, certainly not killing or hating)...not to mention Jesus teachings of loving your enemy. Hilter pretty much made everyone an enemy unless you had blonde hair and blue eyes... In which Hilter should have gotten rid of himself because he didn't fit the perfect race he was trying to make. He was a sick and evil person. Jesus tells us we will know another Christian by their fruits (actions). Hilters fruits were pure evil and proved he was not a true Christians (which simply means a followers of Christ)... he was for sure not following Jesus teachings in any shape or fourm.

I noticed on my other thread there seems to be a very wide differences on the views of Hilter, on the facts even...I think we have to remember not everything on the web is accurate so I would really be careful of where you are getting your information from.

I like using this site on Hilter as they are pretty accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

On this site it says he was raised a Catholic but later dropped out and might have had a little bit of Jew in him. Alot of things on his childhood were hard to find out it looks like.

My only comment about Hilter is there are alot of truly evil people now and in the past who claimed to be Christian, or claim to be muslim or claim to be whatever....we all know if they aren't really following their claimed faith though, they probably aren't really a Christian, or really a muslim, etc. I don't think of those in Iraq that cut off hostages heads as being true muslims. Of course not. And I wouldn't expect a muslim to give up their faith just because of a few evil people. Having bad people in every faith (or claiming to be of that faith) is a fact of history. Has it proven any of those faiths are overall evil? no. Has it proven that all the people belonging to that faith are the same as those few evil people and will do evil? no. Should we all quit our faiths because of these awful people claiming to be apart of ours? no, of course not.

But if you all want to debate whether Hilter was a Christian (or claimed to be) go ahead. I just don't want my other thread getting side tracked. Thanks.

God bless
WhiteStar

 

[HageeFan]

If you compare the Mein Kampf to the Qur'an, you'll discover they're nearly identical.

 

[Freodin]

If you compare the Mein Kampf to the Qur'an, you'll discover they're nearly identical.

From which I can conclude that you have read neither.


And the name, whitestar, as you could have seen from the wiki-link is Hitler.

 

[JGL53]

Well, WhiteStar, as you said, anyone can claim to be anything, including claiming to be a christian. But then we get into the "no true Scotsman" argument (who are the TRUE christians and who aren't?).

There is no record that I know of wherein Hitler made a statement that he adhered to the Nicene creed or was a attending member and believer in any church. He may have made some christian-like statements in Mein Kampf, but it was really his hatred of Jews and everything Jewish that would be his motivating reason for saying such - in my opinion.

If you define a person as a "good christian" based on his "works", then obviously Hitler was not a christian. Ordering mass murder hardly is christian (and, again, we get into a "no true Scotsman" argument with my atheist brothers and sisters bring up many of the popes, the KKK, the violence in Northern Ireland, the racism of the religious south, and so forth and so on).

I think that Hitler obvious had a belief in some sort of god or divine power - he imagined he was god's instrument on earth to bring about a German-ruled world - thus his religion was rather theocratic. Hitler had a lot of theosophy-type beliefs, as did many of his top people (google theosophy if you're unfamiliar with the term).

So, I would conclude, based on all I have read about Hitler and in reading selected paragraphs from Mein Kampf that Hitler was not a christian (unless you accept the fact that since he was born into the catholic faith and was never excommunicated, then legalistically he was - that is quite a debatable point.)

OTOH, was Hitler an atheist? No, there's no real evidence of that. In fact, the evidence seems to be that he did believe in some type of god.

So, as I see it, christians can very well reject Hitler as a fellow christian (I'll certainly give them that) but they will have to accept him as a fellow theist.

Sorry guys.

 

[arunma]

Hello again Whitestar. What is the other thread that you were referring to?

Well, WhiteStar, as you said, anyone can claim to be anything, including claiming to be a christian. But then we get into the "no true Scotsman" argument (who are the TRUE christians and who aren't?).

I just want to make a sidenote here. The "no true Scotsman fallacy" isn't a genuine fallacy. It was invented by then-atheist Antony Flew specifically for the purpose of gathering as many people under the label of "Christian" as possible. I know you didn't refer to this as a logical fallacy, but I just wanted to point this out for the benefit of those who would.

 

[Druweid]

Greetings!

Okay, to avoid the bulk of debate over which source is more reliable, or who has more accurate information, I just going to throw out my opinion and see what comes of it.

As I stated in a different thread, the majority of my opinion rests on a concept; Hitler could not be both a megalomaniac and a Christian as it would be a conflict of interests.

If Hitler considered himself to be a Christian at any time, it was (imho) a religion of convenience and nothing else. I believe he did profess support for Christianity in many speeches, and I would surmise that said references were rhetoric and propaganda.

'Course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

-- Druweid

 

[arunma]

If Hitler considered himself to be a Christian at any time, it was (imho) a religion of convenience and nothing else. I believe he did profess support for Christianity in many speeches, and I would surmise that said references were rhetoric and propaganda.

I recall a book (I believe it's called "Hitler's Secret Conversations," the specific name can be looked up on Google) which proves that Hitler did not even provide verbal support for Christianity. He made many statements which specifically attacked Christianity.

 

[whitestar]

From which I can conclude that you have read neither.


And the name, whitestar, as you could have seen from the wiki-link is Hitler.

Its common for people with dyslexia, like me, to switch letters around. I can't see it...but certain people seem to seem to enjoy pointing that out to me. It makes my threads uniqueat any rate.

 

[Skillganon]

If he was a christian then he was a bad one.

But don't worry you will see him in heaven, because he has accepted salvation through Jesus blood, and if you do not consider that to be enough blood he sacrificed 6 million (lamb) innocent Jews (to God), to make sure.

LoL. Just kidding.

 

[shinbits]

If he was a Christian, he didn't believe in it, or try to follow Christian princaples.

If Hilter did, he would've respected the Jews as God's chosen people. He would've also followed the Commandment of "Thou Shall Not Kill".

Hitler may have claimed Christianity, but obviously wasn't. Jesus says of such people when they die, "Away from me; I never knew you."

 

[whitestar]

Hello again Whitestar. What is the other thread that you were referring to?



I just want to make a sidenote here. The "no true Scotsman fallacy" isn't a genuine fallacy. It was invented by then-atheist Antony Flew specifically for the purpose of gathering as many people under the label of "Christian" as possible. I know you didn't refer to this as a logical fallacy, but I just wanted to point this out for the benefit of those who would.

I was refering to my other thread on here: http://www.christianforums.com/t2733249-nonchristians-what-do-you-not-like-about-our-faith.html

If you define a person as a "good christian" based on his "works", then obviously Hitler was not a christian. Ordering mass murder hardly is christian (and, again, we get into a "no true Scotsman" argument with my atheist brothers and sisters bring up many of the popes, the KKK, the violence in Northern Ireland, the racism of the religious south, and so forth and so on).

Faith without works is dead. Though in our faith we cannot work our way to Heaven. Its a by product of our faith. At any rate yes, to know a real Christian you can tell by their fruits.

Matthew 7

The Tree and Its Fruit

15"Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep, but are really wolves that will tear you apart. 16You can detect them by the way they act, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit. You don't pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles. 17A healthy tree produces good fruit, and an unhealthy tree produces bad fruit. 18A good tree can't produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can't produce good fruit. 19So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. 20Yes, the way to identify a tree or a person is by the kind of fruit that is produced.

True Disciples

21"Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as `Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven. 22 On judgment day many will tell me, `Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.' 23 But I will reply, `I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized.'

Hilter could have claimed over and over shouting from the rooftops he was a Christian...but his actions proved otherwise. Jesus never said for us to kill people of other faiths, or even if their hair wasn't blonde. Hilter was clearly a wolf...and he did tear people apart!

Matthew 5

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors[j] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

God bless

 

[tulc]

When did we get to decide who is or isn't a Christian.
tulc(must have missed the memo)

 

[whitestar]

When did we get to decide who is or isn't a Christian.
tulc(must have missed the memo)

Read the scriptures I posted above...do you think they mean something else?

 

[Silvertongue]

As far as Hitler's religious beliefs are concerned, I've heard the term "Ásatrú" tossed around every once in awhile, but I haven't had the time to research that aspect myself.

However, judging from my reading of threads such as this one in the past combined with the infamous "Gott Mit Uns" belt buckles, I think it's pretty fair to say that Hitler was certainly a theist of some sort. Christian? That might be stretching it a bit.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Since people on my other thread, seem to want to discuss Hilter so much, I thought I would start a new thread in order to keep my other one from becoming a big debate over whether Hilter was a Christian or not. About the only thing I know for sure he is did have Jews, Christians and even his own German people killed, along with countless others from other countries. Hilter may or may not have claimed to be a Christian....anyone can claim to be a Christian or of any other faith for that matter....but whether they really are is another matter.

Jesus gave us two commandments to follow and Hilter was obviously not following either of them (both of those commandments are about love, certainly not killing or hating)...not to mention Jesus teachings of loving your enemy. Hilter pretty much made everyone an enemy unless you had blonde hair and blue eyes... In which Hilter should have gotten rid of himself because he didn't fit the perfect race he was trying to make. He was a sick and evil person. Jesus tells us we will know another Christian by their fruits (actions). Hilters fruits were pure evil and proved he was not a true Christians (which simply means a followers of Christ)... he was for sure not following Jesus teachings in any shape or fourm.

I noticed on my other thread there seems to be a very wide differences on the views of Hilter, on the facts even...I think we have to remember not everything on the web is accurate so I would really be careful of where you are getting your information from.

I like using this site on Hilter as they are pretty accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

On this site it says he was raised a Catholic but later dropped out and might have had a little bit of Jew in him. Alot of things on his childhood were hard to find out it looks like.

My only comment about Hilter is there are alot of truly evil people now and in the past who claimed to be Christian, or claim to be muslim or claim to be whatever....we all know if they aren't really following their claimed faith though, they probably aren't really a Christian, or really a muslim, etc. I don't think of those in Iraq that cut off hostages heads as being true muslims. Of course not. And I wouldn't expect a muslim to give up their faith just because of a few evil people. Having bad people in every faith (or claiming to be of that faith) is a fact of history. Has it proven any of those faiths are overall evil? no. Has it proven that all the people belonging to that faith are the same as those few evil people and will do evil? no. Should we all quit our faiths because of these awful people claiming to be apart of ours? no, of course not.

But if you all want to debate whether Hilter was a Christian (or claimed to be) go ahead. I just don't want my other thread getting side tracked. Thanks.

God bless
WhiteStar

Actually you'd be surpirsed how christian he was.I was confronted by some christians over this issue once so I went to do some research on it and I found he was linked to the church and had bishops with him doing the nazi salute.usually it is a way for Christians to go injto denuial mode when it comes to things like but they will not go into denial mode if the person was Muslim.I have loads od stuff i will post but then every one will deny it.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just

 

[peepnklown]

At any rate yes, to know a real Christian you can tell by their fruits.

If those verses define Christianity, then a lot of people will have to be erased from being Christian, including the early Church leaders.

 

[peepnklown]

I have loads of stuff I will post but then every one will deny it.

When Christians do bad things they are not Christians, when they do good things they are…seems a bit fraudulent to me.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

When Christians do bad things they are not Christians, when they do good things they are…seems a bit fraudulent to me.

Tha was my point that they will deny he was Christian because if what he did. hoever there is enough eveidence out there to prove them wrong.
The other thing is that Christians do not want to associate christianity with the death of millions of Jews.However they will associate the death of a thousand Christians to Islam, cos some misguided persons killed Christians.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Aka James the Just.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Hitler's Christianity
Quotes from mein Campf:




He justified his fight for the German people and against Jews by using Godly and Biblical reasoning. Indeed, one of his most revealing statements makes this quite clear:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him! As evidence to his claimed Christianity, he said:​

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Here is the Church Priest giving the Nazi salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.



Also below is a cardinal Marching with the Nazis

[SIZE=-1]Both his parents Alois, and Klara were buried at the gravesite.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Hitler's mother, Klara was a pious Catholic. Hitler was devoted to his mother and loved her deeply. She died of breast cancer at the age of 47 on December 21, 1907.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Hitler visited the grave of his parents on March 12, 1938, the day he followed his troops as they invaded Austria.[/SIZE]

For your information Mein campf has no resemblence to the Quran.It is as Christian as you can get. I have more of this plus more quotes from mein campf.Duty calls got work to do will post more later.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just




​

To be continued

 

[Nahienga]

Hitler believed in god, but he was not really the perfect christian.
As many have said here, he didn't listen that well to Jesus and his teaching.
But, I've seen many christians, even here, who doesn't follow Jesus command; respect everyone, even non-christians.

And that was the ground for Hitlers actions. He didn't follow that command. But he was extreme, he wanted the perfect man in a perfect country with a prefect belief.

And I know there are many on here who can't really respect non-christians. Luckily, I don't think those are that extreme to kill anyone.

Most christians want to deny that Hitler was a christian because he didn't follow all the commands. But what they don't realize is that there are many christians, or "christians", who doesn't follow Jesus that well.
The difference is that those christians aren't sick, evil or pathetic. They just stick more to the bible than to Jesus.
I would rather call them biblians instead of christians...

Anyways, I got to go. Peace out!