Was God's choosing Israel an act of aparteid...

[Peacemaker1]

reasonable service to god is presenting our whole body as holy sacrifices, our lips sacrificed praising him, not being led by antichrist spirit into strife by not controlling our tongue to be more hearing, than the antichrists more talking




Romans 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.


Hebrews 13:15By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.


James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.


James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

 

[Ephesians321]

Sad that on this thread among many others - so many folks just want to sell a theology rather than discuss a topic. Refusing to respond to questions.

We see in James 3 that the wisdom from above is reasonable - meaning 'able to be discussed'.

Most folks fail on this point - so one must ask if they are manifesting the Wisdom of God.

God did not choose the State Of Israel and apartheid. The land has no more prophetic importance any more. The State Of Israel was created by man not God. Biblical Convenantal Israel and their possession of the land was strictly conditional upon their obedience and faithfulness. It is sad that millions of Christians are watching Israel and believe that the End Times are unfolding. Also, God promised Israel that its enemies would never attack the nation on its holy Feast Days (Exodus 34:23-24). The State of Israel was at least attacked twice - Yom Kippur War (1973) and The Passover Massacre (2002).

Generally speaking, first century Jews had the conception of two ages—the Mosaic Age and the Messianic Age— also called the Old Covenant and New Covenant. (Jer. 31:31f). Because the New Testament writers lived before the definitive end of the Mosaic Covenant in AD 70, they describe the two ages as “this age” (Mosaic) and “the age to come” (Messianic, Christian, Kingdom of God). After the destruction of the Jewish state in AD 70, believers gained the fullness of the Kingdom of God. The latter is the New Heaven and New Earth.

CONDITIONAL UPON CIRCUMCISION:

And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Genesis 17:9-14

And it came to pass, when all the kings of the Amorites, which were on the side of Jordan westward, and all the kings of the Canaanites, which were by the sea, heard that the Lord had dried up the waters of Jordan from before the children of Israel, until we were passed over, that their heart melted, neither was there spirit in them any more, because of the children of Israel. At that time the Lord said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins. And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt. Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised. For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord: unto whom the Lord sware that he would not shew them the land, which the Lord sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey. And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way. And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole. And the Lord said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day.
Joshua 5:1-9

CONDITIONAL UPON REPENTENCE AND OBEDIENCE BEFORE REGATHERING. THEY COULD NOT ENTER THE LAND IN A STATE OF DISBELIEF AND REBELLION:

If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me; And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes
Leviticus 26:40-43

And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee. If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deuteronomy 30:1-6


When was Christ's earthly ministry according to Hebrews 1:2?

When did Christ die and rose from the dead according to Hebrews 9:26?

 

[Ephesians321]

Among Israel's Jewish populace, only 20% or so identify as "religious", a figure which, misleadingly, sometimes places the country at the top of global irreligion surveys. However, being "religious" implies strict observance of Orthodox ritual law. The other 80% identify as either Masortim, "traditional" (30–40%), or Hilonim, "secular" (40–50%). Almost all the "traditional" and many of the "secular" both affirm various religious beliefs and practice a considerable array of Jewish rituals. Indeed, scholars argued that "secular" is problematic in translation (likewise, though hostility toward the state rabbinate is ubiquitous, secularism in the common sense of advocating separation of church and state is rather rare in the country). Professor Yoav Peled preferred to render Hiloni – 60% of whom believe in God, according to polls, and 25% affirm that He literally revealed the Law at Sinai – as "nonobservant".

Emphasizing the superiority of practice to faith in Judaism, Israeli social scientists measure secularity and religiosity in terms of the rigour of observance, not beliefs. The Guttman Center, running the most thorough survey of Jewish-Israeli religious attitudes, employs the category of "totally nonobservant" to identify the completely secular. In 2009, 16% of respondents identified as such. Owing to the prevalence of practices like selective dietary purity or fixing a doorpost amulet, and their amalgamation into Israeli ordinary lifestyle without an overt religious connotation, many of the "totally nonobservant" actually perform not a few of these. In the 1999 Guttman survey, while 21% stated they are "totally nonobservant", only 7% did not practice any of the ten common ritual behaviours studied. Utter personal secularity of the Western sort is very rare.

Concerning the existence of a deity, the results of four major polls, conducted between 2009 and 2019, imply that some 20% of Jewish Israelis do not believe in God: 11% "sometimes think God exists" and 9% are convinced atheists. Regarding other supernatural notions, 28% of respondents to the Guttman 2009 survey denied efficacy to prayer, 33% did not believe that the Jews are a chosen people, 35% did not affirm that the Law and the precepts are God-given, 44% rejected the notions of a World to Come and afterlife, and 49% did not believe in a future coming of a Messiah. These findings largely commensurate with the 1991 and 1999 surveys.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I wonder if you could answer the question...

Do you think prophesy can have more than one fulfilment ?

Can? Sure.

But when we have clear fulfillment that is clear, biblical, historical--who gets to decide that there's another fulfillment?

That seems like an open invitation to endless speculations. And the result of that is clearly seen in endless competing prophetic claims, and massive confusion. There's an entire publishing industry that rakes in a tidy profit for "prophecy experts". And there is no end to those who will have their ears tickled by seductive doctrines.

The whole reason for my previous post was to demonstrate the danger in this. Presuming to speak for God where God has not spoken, to try and divine the will of God where God has not revealed it, and engaging in prophetic riddles and riddle solving.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ephesians321]

I wonder if you could answer the question...

Do you think prophesy can have more than one fulfilment ?

Absolutely not especially if it has a time frame and signs attached.

when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. Deuteronomy 18:22

 

[Carl Emerson]

God did not choose the State Of Israel and apartheid.

Was God choosing the Land of Israel for Old Covenant Jews and assisting them to depopulate the Land and act of Apartheid?

 

[Ephesians321]

Was God choosing the Land of Israel for Old Covenant Jews and assisting them to depopulate the Land and act of Apartheid?

Abraham was promised that land BUT it was not his eternal promised land or eternal inheritance the latter of which we are heirs according to faith in Christ. The land was just type and shadow of the Kingdom of God. The land served and completed its purpose it delivered the Messiah. That is why there is no circumcision, no Jew or Gentile, no Law, and no Mosaic Age. These all permanently passed away A.D. 70. There can be no two simultaneous Covenants. They cancel or abrogate each other. Fortunately, the Mosaic Law passed away.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Abraham was promised that land BUT it was not his eternal promised land or eternal inheritance the latter of which we are heirs according to faith in Christ. The land was just type and shadow of the Kingdom of God. The land served and completed its purpose it delivered the Messiah. That is why there is no circumcision, no Jew or Gentile, no Law, and no Mosaic Age. These all permanently passed away A.D. 70. There can be no two simultaneous Covenants. They cancel or abrogate each other. Fortunately, the Mosaic Law passed away.

Can you please answer the question if you can...

 

[Ephesians321]

Can you please answer the question if you can...

Yes, he required the destruction of the heathen nations to be driven from the land not only because they were Israel's enemies but they could lead Israel astray to follow other "gods". The heathen nations worshipped idols and demons. To preserve the seed of the Messiah. God desired a holy nation to call his own, a peculiar people, and a priesthood. Now what does any of that have to relate to the secular, political entity of the State of Israel?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes, he required the destruction of the heathen nations to be driven from the land not only because they were Israel's enemies but they could lead Israel astray to follow other "gods". The heathen nations worshipped idols and demons. To preserve the seed of the Messiah. God desired a holy nation to call his own, a peculiar people, and a priesthood. Now what does any of that have to relate to the secular, political entity of the State of Israel?

This is astonishing - you still have not answered the question !!!!!

 

[Ephesians321]

This is astonishing - you still have not answered the question !!!!!

First off what Israel are you even talking about, Biblical Israel that had a Covenant with God or the State of Israel which has no Covenant with God?

 

[Carl Emerson]

First off what Israel are you even talking about, Biblical Israel that had a Covenant with God or the State of Israel which has no Covenant with God?

I made it real clear in post #167... and in the OP

Was God choosing the Land of Israel for Old Covenant Jews and assisting them to depopulate the Land and act of Apartheid?

 

[Ephesians321]

No, God never created an apartheid in Biblical Israel.

 

[Stephen3141]

It seems that the thinking of the modern world, is that God favouring one nation over another is somehow immoral.

Under the divided attitudes among Christians runs the demand that all men are equal and all nations are equal before God.

This is not the revealed viewpoint we read in Scripture.

This seems to be a major driver of antisemitic sentiment.

Paul addressed this issue in Romans 9

And we read this in Genesis...

12 Now the Lord said to Abram,

“Go from your country,
And from your relatives
And from your father’s house,
To the land which I will show you;
2 And I will make you into a great nation,
And I will bless you,
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing;
3 And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”

Was God sinning in choosing one nation over another ?

Note that in the second choosing of God's People, anyone could have joined the Jews
in leaving Egypt. And any native "Jews" could have stayed in Egypt, and left the
People of God.

Anyone who was not a physical descendent of Isaac, could also
convert to Judaism, and join God's People.

And any who left Egypt in the Exodus, could later defect because of their
lack of faith.

This is not a description of "apartheid".

 

[Radrook]

The word Apartheid has negative connotations of injustices based on racism as practiced under the South African white dominated government. . The separation of Israel as a special people had nothing to do with the inherent superiority of any one race over any other race. It was a choosing that was based on the line leading up to the Lord's Jesus Christ appearance as mankind's Savior. The removal of the Canaanites was based on their behavior, such as rampant child sacrifices, incest, and inappropriate behavior with animals. God did not want them to have a negative moral influence of Israel. Furthermore, there is nothing inherently immoral in staying away from people who are evil. Calling it apartheid in order to make it appear as evil proves nothing.

 

[stevevw]

here is a Arab Isreali explaining how Isreal is not an aparteid state.

 

[Peacemaker1]

israel is separate, as it has not the spirit of christ.


Jude 1:19
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

 

[Carl Emerson]

This passage is referring to unbelievers in general infiltrating the church with arrogance and unclean ways.

There is no reference to rejecting a nation as a whole in fact the faithful that Jude writes to would have been mostly Jews.

And so it is today - there are many God fearing Jews coming to faith and who knows - in the future we may yet see the wholesale repentance among the Jews that Paul spoke about - this is a good prayer focus.

I have no doubt that Jesus has a special love for the Jews and it is our calling to love all mankind as Jesus did and not ignore any race or nation.

 

[Peacemaker1]

on Christmas day, America supported murder, done by the Jews of Israel, and as Israel blesses that way let them receive the same blessing. ( America is confused, if it thinks it has right to vote on un resolutions, while supplying bombs to kill for Israel who also killed the Lord Jesus Christ.)

Gods judgement stands, Israel can only receive the kind of mercy they have shown they will only ever believe in, and what Christ being born means to them, to kill others born on the same Christmas day.


Psalm 109:17 As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.

 

[Peacemaker1]

will the devils tricky tongue somehow make God approve of what Israel is doing, and this show they are heading towards belief in Jesus Christ, by begin such a murder spree, no, they cant be more wicked, but sad for the Palestinians, as instead of seeing Christianity come to their help, they see American Christianity supply the bombs, but that is why it is the end of the world, no more perversion and evil could be done in Gods name right now, than is being done, and even excused by the same heartless people of the forum, called Christian, shame it has the SAME moral standards. Reprobates)