Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

[Calminian]

So you don't believe this scripture means what it says then?:

Acts 3:22-23
2 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’

You believe that was an empty threat?
You believe that failed to come to pass as written?
You believe that there were Jews who refused to listen to and follow Jesus who were NOT utterly destroyed from among the People?

Sure I do. That's why I reject the replacement theology. This text explicitly says some jews are unbelieving. In this instance, they were about to be destroyed.

Why oh why would you reject the clear implications of this passage?

 

[Calminian]

What is your reason for excluding believing Jews from "Israel"?

When do the Jewish Followers of Christ stop being Israel?

That's neither what I believe nor any dispensationalist. It's a straw man. Show me where I exclude believing jews from Israel?

 

[Choose Wisely]

The entire human race is Jewish. Will the entire human race be redeemed?

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Let's see..........do I believe your links or God. I think I go with God as usual.
Rom 11
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Just something else to cry about.

 

[jgr]

But they are still Jews outwardly according to Luke and Paul and all the other NT writers.

But according to Paul, the outward Jew is not a Jew at all unless he is an inward Jew.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[BABerean2]

That's neither what I believe nor any dispensationalist. It's a straw man. Show me where I exclude believing jews from Israel?

Dispensationalists often speak about today's "Gentile Church".

Based on Acts chapter 2, the Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

The statement is the Dispensationalists method of twisting reality to make their Two Peoples of God doctrine work.


Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
Act 2:40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."
Act 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.




.

 

[Calminian]

But according to Paul, the outward Jew is not a Jew at all unless he is an inward Jew.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Yes, but Paul still referred to some unbelievers as Jews, and he still makes distinctions between unbelieving jews and gentiles and believing jews and gentiles. Why aren't you willing to do the same? Why do you scold others for doing it? Do you feel you have more insight than Paul or Luke or the rest of the NT writers. Why are they still willing to talk about a partially hardened Israel and you are not?

None of you guys have touched post 493 yet.

 

[Calminian]

Dispensationalists often speak about today's "Gentile Church".

Based on Acts chapter 2, the Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

The statement is the Dispensationalists method of twisting reality to make their Two Peoples of God doctrine work.


Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
Act 2:40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."
Act 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.




.

Do do you believe Paul and Luke were twisted dispensationalists since they believed in the existence of jews apart from belief? Since they believed in a partially blinded Israel?

 

[jgr]

Let's see..........do I believe your links or God. I think I go with God as usual.
Rom 11
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Just something else to cry about.

There is no fullness greater than that of the entire human race.

Will the entire human race be redeemed?

 

[Calminian]

Let's see..........do I believe your links or God. I think I go with God as usual.
Rom 11
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Just something else to cry about.

Yep, definitely going with God on this one. He refers often to the existence of an unbelieving Israel, both in the New and Old Testament. Must be that replacement theology is wrong.

 

[jgr]

Yes, but Paul still referred to some unbelievers as Jews

When he did so, did he recognize them as outward Jews, or inward Jews?

 

[Calminian]

There is no fullness greater than that of the entire human race.

Will the entire human race be redeemed?

No they won't. That's another false doctrine you're espousing, universalism. But unbelieving Israel will be converted according to Paul, John, Luke and others. I'm trusting them over you.

 

[jgr]

Yep, definitely going with God on this one. He refers often to the existence of an unbelieving Israel, both in the New and Old Testament. Must be that replacement theology is wrong.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

All Israel:
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only one Israel shall be saved.

All Israel.

The faithful obedient elect beloved foreknown remnant of Romans 11.

 

[Calminian]

When he did so, did he recognize them as outward Jews, or inward Jews?

I quoted the passages. It's obvious they were unbelievers. But that doesn't mean there is not a race of Jews that God believes exists. Look at the history of Israel. Look how God weeped over their unbelief. He wanted them to come into their fullness and believe. But they would not.

But you go further than God. You deny the very existence of an unbelieving jew, thus making it impossible to convert them in the future. There can be no conversation of Israel if a partially blinded Israel does not exist. But Paul said it does.

 

[jgr]

No they won't. That's another false doctrine you're espousing, universalism. But unbelieving Israel will be converted according to Paul, John, Luke and others. I'm trusting them over you.

Israel is genetically present within the entire human race.

If all Israel will be converted, as is the dispensational claim, then the entire human race will be converted.

Universalism is an inescapable dispensational conclusion.

 

[Calminian]

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.....

The irony is, you even deny this, by claiming there is no such thing as an unbelieving Jew. Paul is saying explicitly in this verse that some are of Israel but not of God. You are saying the opposite, that they are not of Israel either. This is why you also deny Paul's clear statement that Israel is partially blinded.

 

[Calminian]

Israel is genetically present within the entire human race.....

Utter nonsense. You don't think there's a single human anywhere who's genealogy does not go up to Jacob?

Where do you hear these things? Bizarre.

We all go back to Adam and Noah, but we don't all go back to Israel. Even some descendants of Abraham don't go back to Jacob (Rom. 9:7). Unless you spiritualize the Genesis account as well?

 

[jgr]

The irony is, you even deny this, by claiming there is no such thing as an unbelieving Jew.

Provide my specific quote claiming there is no such thing as an unbelieving Jew.

 

[jgr]

Utter nonsense. You don't think there's a single human anywhere who's genealogy does not go up to Jacob?

Where do you hear these things? Bizarre.

We all go back to Adam and Noah, but we don't all go back to Israel. Even some descendants of Abraham don't go back to Jacob (Rom. 9:7). Unless you spiritualize the Genesis account as well?

Obviously you haven't read any of the links I've provided, almost all of which are from the Jewish community itself.

Don't you believe the Jews', that you profess to love, own testimony about their own genetics?

 

[Calminian]

Provide my specific quote claiming there is no such thing as an unbelieving Jew.

Why would I do that? I believe in unbelieving jews and cited several arguments for it in 493. I'm not going to research all yours posts. Instead, just admit now there is such a thing as an unbelieving Jew and we'll move on. The case will be closed (at least for you). Then we can both admit that Israel can exist even if partially hardened.

 

[Calminian]

Obviously you haven't read any of the links I've provided, almost all of which are from the Jewish community itself....

Generally, I go to Scripture. If you are getting your theology from the Jewish community, that does explain some things. I disagree with them on many theological issues. But my authority is Scripture, Jesus and the Apostles (and Luke the inspired writer of Church history). Your authority seems to be junk DNA rumors (endless genealogies).