WARNING: References used by Cultists

[dzheremi]

Why is the title wrong? Because it offended a non-Trinitarian? If the reference in the OP is indeed one characteristically used by anti-Trinitarian cults like the ones listed, then what's so wrong about that? It doesn't make the reference in itself 'cultic', as already explained by tstor.

 

[Ironhold]

Why is the title wrong? Because it offended a non-Trinitarian? If the reference in the OP is indeed one characteristically used by anti-Trinitarian cults like the ones listed, then what's so wrong about that? It doesn't make the reference in itself 'cultic', as already explained by tstor.

Again, people have yet to show how it's a bad thing that members of a "cult" sometimes use an otherwise commonly-accepted source.

This can lead one to wonder if a double-standard of some sort is presently being employed.

 

[Traveling teacher]

By far the three largest nontrinitarian churches are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("Mormons"), Jehovah's Witnesses and the Iglesia Ni Cristo, though there are a number of other smaller groups, including Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, Dawn Bible Students, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God International and the United Church of God.

The United Church of God, an International Association (UCGIA or simplyUCG) is a religious denomination based in the United States, an offshoot of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG) founded by Herbert W.Armstrong.

One of the references cited by nontrinitarians is
Harper's Bible Dictionary, by P. Achtemeier, c. 1985, Harper & Row, San Francisco, Ca.

I'm interested in some links in favor of the true God, and I'm thinking that dzheremi can provide several of those.

So you are saying those who dont believe in the trinity are in a cult......

What about these gruops????

Church of Christ - conservative
Messianic Jewish Christian
Non - denominational

I have belonged to all 3 and none are Cultic....
however they can be controlling and isolated at times.......

Also your referenc to the UNITed CHURCH OF God......
is no longer armstrongs group......
they have changed dramatically in the last 20 years.....
they believe in salvation by grace but I still dont think they are tinitarian????

 

[tstor]

I have belonged to all 3 and none are Cultic....
however they can be controlling and isolated at times.......

That should be a red flag.

 

[Thedictator]

I believe in the Trinity, but were does it say in the Bible that one must believe in the Trinity to be saved?

 

[tstor]

I believe in the Trinity, but were does it say in the Bible that one must believe in the Trinity to be saved?

Great question. Most people would say that the doctrine of the trinity, which defines the very nature of Yahweh/Jehovah, is essential to the Christian faith. After all, if someone cannot properly identify the nature of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, what hope is there for them?

Others say that it is not an essential doctrine, as the Bible does not explicitly define it as such. I am leaning more toward this position, as I believe it would be tough to find the doctrine of the trinity (as defined today) in the early writings of Christians. Since this is the case, it would be difficult to support it being an essential doctrine.

 

[Thedictator]

Great question. Most people would say that the doctrine of the trinity, which defines the very nature of Yahweh/Jehovah, is essential to the Christian faith. After all, if someone cannot properly identify the nature of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, what hope is there for them? Can man really understand the real true nature of God. The doctrine of the Trinity is man attempt to explain God's nature not that it is God's nature.

Others say that it is not an essential doctrine, as the Bible does not explicitly define it as such. I am leaning more toward this position, as I believe it would be tough to find the doctrine of the trinity (as defined today) in the early writings of Christians. Since this is the case, it would be difficult to support it being an essential doctrine.

I do believe a person must believe that Jesus was a man and the son of God to be saved the bible teaches that. I also believe that the bible teaches that The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit make up what we call God, but that is not necessarily the Doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I do believe a person must believe that Jesus was a man and the son of God to be saved the bible teaches that. I also believe that the bible teaches that The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit make up what we call God, but that is not necessarily the Doctrine of the Trinity.

It is note worthy that the doctrine of the Trinity didn't get nailed down until centuries after Christ, and is still very commonly misunderstood.

 

[dzheremi]

It is even more noteworthy that the topic of this thread is "References used by Cultists", and not "What do you think about the Trinity".

 

[Traveling teacher]

Growing up in the Church of Christ.......conservative
I dont believe it was a cult........
But it was legalistic and conservative at times.....

We were allowed to discuss the relation of Father Son and Holy Spirit...but were not allowed to use the term Trinity...

A core belief in the COC. Was
Speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent....

Not a bad doctrine since Jesus warned in the last verses of
Revelation not to add to or tke away from the things written in this Book....
Revelation 22:19

 

[Thedictator]

Growing up in the Church of Christ.......conservative
I dont believe it was a cult........
But it was legalistic and conservative at times.....

We were allowed to discuss the relation of Father Son and Holy Spirit...but were not allowed to use the term Trinity...

A core belief in the COC. Was
Speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent....

Not a bad doctrine since Jesus warned in the last verses of
Revelation not to add to or tke away from the things written in this Book....
Revelation 22:19

The Churches of Christ are not like that today, there is a large diverse amount of opinion on just about any subject. I have never in 40 years heard someone in the Church of Christ say your not allowed to say, talk, or discuss any subject.

 

[tstor]

It is even more noteworthy that the topic of this thread is "References used by Cultists", and not "What do you think about the Trinity".

I believe that the doctrine of the trinity has been the core of this thread from the start.

 

[Traveling teacher]

Growing up in the Church of Christ.......conservative
I dont believe it was a cult........
But it was legalistic and conservative at times.....

We were allowed to discuss the relation of Father Son and Holy Spirit...but were not allowed to use the term Trinity...

A core belief in the COC. Was
Speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent....

Not a bad doctrine since Jesus warned in the last verses of
Revelation not to add to or tke away from the things written in this Book....
Revelation 22:19

The Churches of Christ are not like that today, there is a large diverse amount of opinion on just about any subject. I have never in 40 years heard someone in the Church of Christ say your not allowed to say, talk, or discuss any subject.

Not saying you were scolded.....just usually said something like the word trinity is not in the Bible.
Or the word rapture is not in the Bible....
Or calling your leaders revereand or father.....
These words were always a part of doctrinal discussion...

Speak where the bible speaks
Be silent where the bible is silent......

Was maybe one of the number one quote among COC
Thus the verse in revelation

 

[Thedictator]

Not saying you were scolded.....just usually said something like the word trinity is not in the Bible.
Or the word rapture is not in the Bible....
Or calling your leaders revereand or father.....
These words were always a part of doctrinal discussion...

Speak where the bible speaks
Be silent where the bible is silent......

Was maybe one of the number one quote among COC
Thus the verse in revelation

Ok, I just wanted to say it is not like that now, except for Speak where the bible speaks, Be silent where the bible is silent is very much a saying, almost a creed.

 

[Traveling teacher]

Just saying that was my background.....

And giving reasons why the COC didnt use the word trinity and why I dont believe it was a cult that was said in the previous posts that those groups that dont believe in the trinity are cultists....
as you would also have to include many jewish believers......
And messianic congregations......

These 2 groups are not at all close to jehovah witnesses or mormons.......as they believe strongly in the bible and highly discourage any others writings as even coming close to the bible......

 

[gadar perets]

Very fair. However, a lot of the examples listed are indeed cultic. Examples:

• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("Mormons")
• Jehovah's Witnesses
• Iglesia Ni Cristo
• Dawn Bible Students
• The Way International
• Etc.

This depends on who is doing the labeling. To Christians they are cults, but they do not view themselves as cults. There are those that look upon modern Christianity as a cult that differed from the early "churches".

 

[Thedictator]

This depends on who is doing the labeling. To Christians they are cults, but they do not view themselves as cults. There are those that look upon modern Christianity as a cult that differed from the early "churches".

Yes I agree, it depends on the criteria of what a cult is, If it is false doctrine then the Catholic Church is a cult, as well as many mainline Churches. Cult seems to be a catchphrase for any Church someone does not like.

 

[Rescued One]

So you are saying those who dont believe in the trinity are in a cult......

I did not explicitly say that.

What about these gruops????

Church of Christ - conservative
Messianic Jewish Christian
Non - denominational

I have belonged to all 3 and none are Cultic....
however they can be controlling and isolated at times.......

The word cult is defined differently by different people.

Non-denominational does not mean non-Trinitarian. Non-trinitarianism is a grave error. salvation by the grace of a false god doesn't save anyone.

Also your referenc to the UNITed CHURCH OF God......
is no longer armstrongs group......
they have changed dramatically in the last 20 years.....
they believe in salvation by grace but I still dont think they are tinitarian????

Worldwide Church of God is the church that has had doctrinal changes.

The United Church of God, an International Association (UCGIA or simply UCG)[2] is a Christian religious denomination based in the United States, an offshoot of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG) founded by Herbert W. Armstrong. It is one of many Sabbatarian Churches of God to split from WCG.
United Church of God - Wikipedia

"But this does not exclude the Son from being God in the sense of sharing the same level of existence with the Father and sharing rule with the Father over all—and of acting as God on the Father’s behalf throughout eternity, past and future. For the Son is in fact God in this very sense...
"Jesus is our immediate Lord and Master—the Father being ultimate Lord and Master."
ucg.org

 

[Rescued One]

I believe in the Trinity, but were does it say in the Bible that one must believe in the Trinity to be saved?

Do you suppose God wants you to believe what He has revealed or would you say that those who believe in another god can also be saved?

 

[Rescued One]

Yes I agree, it depends on the criteria of what a cult is, If it is false doctrine then the Catholic Church is a cult, as well as many mainline Churches. Cult seems to be a catchphrase for any Church someone does not like.

I don't use the word cult to indicate dislike. I use it to identify belief in a false god under the guise of Christianity.