Warning! Hell thread.

[Landon Caeli]

Yes, I have a question. will those who go to hell, suffer in any way, and will they be conscious of this?

For sure.

 

[Micah888]

so exactly where in the Holy Bible do you read, that Jesus Christ and the Angels are IN the lake of fire?

What it means is they can OBSERVE what happens in the Lake of Fire -- "in the presence of" -- just as you observe on TV what happens in a remote corner of the world.

 

[Project Panda]

 

[Not David]

My religion teaches that God is not present at hells core.

So the idea that God is Omnipresent is not Biblical?

 

[Landon Caeli]

So the idea that God is Omnipresent is not Biblical?

I don't know, it seems like kind of a stretch to assume that God is present in hell... The bible doesn't directly say so.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Actually, hell i.e. the lake of fire, is not "completely absent of God" as you assert. Rev 14:10 states "he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb."
Jesus and the angels are present in the lake of fire. The next question would be why are they present?

It doesn't say the Father is there.

Only Jesus and the angels, who will come to be present at the final judgement... They will see them out. To hell.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What does "omnipresent" even mean? To be "present" is more than having knowldedge of...

...No, I don't think God the Father ever goes to hell.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What it means is they can OBSERVE what happens in the Lake of Fire -- "in the presence of" -- just as you observe on TV what happens in a remote corner of the world.

But just because I have knowledge of what occurs around the world through TV, does not mean I am "present" around the world...

 

[Oldmantook]

It doesn't say the Father is there.

Only Jesus and the angels, who will come to be present at the final judgement... They will see them out. To hell.

Yes, it does not say the Father is there; only Jesus & the angels. Jesus is God. How long a period of time Jesus and the angels are there is speculative as the scripture is silent regarding that.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I'm not scared of death. I would prefer a permanent end to my existence, rather than a pointless eternal existence with no escape.

I don't see eternal existence as pointless, I see it as more meaningful than this life. As an Atheist, you may be familiar with string theory, where the world as we know it is compared to a 3d hologram run off "strings" from a 7 or 8d source.

...I think our souls are reborn after death, in a much more 'real' place. A place where the full spectrum of colors can be seen -the source of reality.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I think hell is a place where God's strings or "Holy Spirit" is generally absent, and all that is there are the less impressive strings of Satan "evil".

 

[Micah888]

But just because I have knowledge of what occurs around the world through TV, does not mean I am "present" around the world...

But you are not omnipresent God.

 

[Project Panda]

Hell is not a concept that comes from Christianity originally, it was borrowed from other religious source's.

 

[HopefulHepatica]

I look at it like this: Heaven cannot have sin in it, and without Jesus to cover us, those who are unrepentant are plagued by sin and therefore cannot enter in. They have been given the opportunity on Earth to choose, their choice was for a godless existence. Hell is a godless existence. Look at the world today, anything that is hopeless or depraved or terrifying, stem from the enemy's work. However, there remains hope and peaceful moments and joy in the world because God is in the world too. Imagine life without God, you take away everything that is good...there's no love, no joy, no peace, no hope, just pure chaos. Man is not truly alive, without a connection to the One that made them.

 

[Project Panda]

I look at it like this: Heaven cannot have sin in it, and without Jesus to cover us, those who are unrepentant are plagued by sin and therefore cannot enter in. They have been given the opportunity on Earth to choose, their choice was for a godless existence. Hell is a godless existence. Look at the world today, anything that is hopeless or depraved or terrifying, stem from the enemy's work. However, there remains hope and peaceful moments and joy in the world because God is in the world too. Imagine life without God, you take away everything that is good...there's no love, no joy, no peace, no hope, just pure chaos. Man is not truly alive, without a connection to the One that made them.

Job 1:6-7
6One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it."

 

[HopefulHepatica]

Satan has free roam but will be destroyed. God's intention for humanity is to be free of sin and its influence, and therefore it cannot be in heaven with us. It still remains that no human being can enter heaven, without Jesus to cover their sin.

 

[Project Panda]

Satan has free roam but will be destroyed. God's intention for humanity is to be free of sin and its influence, and therefore it cannot be in heaven with us. It still remains that no human being can enter heaven, without Jesus to cover their sin.

What puzzles me is how Satan fell from grace while he was in Gods presence.

 

[HopefulHepatica]

My theory is, as Lucifer was given power above all the angels and something nobody else had: free will, he was susceptible to sin like we are (same weakness). God is not afflicted by sin, he is the polar-opposite of this neutral entity. Lucifer was tempted by it and made his own decision to turn his back on God and want to become his own god. If you're questioning God and His infinite wisdom and WHY He allowed this to happen, I can't say.

The grand design of things maybe. In the end all that matters is that we receive Christ and the life we're meant to live, not miss the point of existence and question every little bit of creation when we're not the ones who made it. It's foolish of man to try and UNDERSTAND God, because it's impossible. We are to Trust Him, and learn by faith. He isn't some man in the sky, He is a great deity, and while we're made in His image, He is far greater than we can even imagine.

 

[Project Panda]

My theory is, as Lucifer was given power above all the angels and something nobody else had: free will, he was susceptible to sin like we are (same weakness). God is not afflicted by sin, he is the polar-opposite of this neutral entity. Lucifer was tempted by it and made his own decision to turn his back on God and want to become his own god. If you're questioning God and His infinite wisdom and WHY He allowed this to happen, I can't say.

The grand design of things maybe. In the end all that matters is that we receive Christ and the life we're meant to live, not miss the point of existence and question every little bit of creation when we're not the ones who made it. It's foolish of man to try and UNDERSTAND God, because it's impossible. We are to Trust Him, and learn by faith. He isn't some man in the sky, He is a great deity, and while we're made in His image, He is far greater than we can even imagine.

You said that no sin can enter heaven, so how did Satan become sinful while in heaven? Look, I'm not questioning you, I'm questioning what was written way before you and I were born.

 

[HopefulHepatica]

I feel that it's God's PLAN for heaven, that sin cannot enter. He wants to separate humanity from sin, but at that time, humans weren't in heaven. As sin emanates from Satan, so perhaps that's where it started? As he was in heaven, it was there with him. I'm unclear myself if it came from him directly, since he was given power and so he felt he was "like" god, and is the origin of it. I've also heard that it was a neutral entity that influenced him first, and was just there, but it makes more sense if it came from Satan, as with him gone, the influence is gone too. I've heard both theories. I'm only human though, haha, it's not like I know for sure that part of it. From here it's mostly theory. This has been a very interesting conversation, things for me to think about too. Thanks friend