Warning! Hell thread.

[Alpha.Omega]

Rev 14:10
"he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb."
The context involves the consequence of those who accept the mark of the beast - as a result they are consigned to the lake of fire. In the lake of fire they will drink the wine of God's wrath, be tormented with fire and sulfur "in the presence" of the angels and Jesus.

you said in #9, "Jesus and the angels are present in the lake of fire"."present in" is not the same as "in the presence". you made a mistake.

 

[Oldmantook]

you said in #9, "Jesus and the angels are present in the lake of fire"."present in" is not the same as "in the presence". you made a mistake.

How so? By using "present" I am utilizing a noun which decribes someone's "presence." For example, if you are present in a room, your presence is in that room. Simple English.

 

[Danielwright2311]

State of mind or not, the pain is still the same, even worse , and it is not worth not being saved.

Pain is pain in a fleshly body or not.

Jesus said it is better to go to heaven with one eye then to hell with two.

Can not have a eye with out a body.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

How so? By using "present" I am utilizing a noun which decribes someone's "presence." For example, if you are present in a room, your presence is in that room. Simple English.

Sure, lets see the simple English what you wrote

You said very clearly, that Jesus and the angels are "present IN the lake of fire", which in simple English can only mean, that they were IN the lake of fire. "in the presence OF", which the text actually says, does not mean that they were IN. Both prepositions have different meanings! I am done on this.

 

[Job3315]

For those who are going to hell, will it be a state of being or an actual place of fiery torment? If it's a state of being, does that mean if you die content you will remain content? If it's a fiery place of torment, how exactly are those people tormented?

One time I was in my apartment and I asked God what was hell like. I was curious but also nervous because I didn't want Him to take me there. I was scared of the things I was going to see. So, the day went by and His presence just felt like a cloud, He was Present. The atmosphere felt spiritually clean. Later on, out of the blue I felt a sense of death, solitude, grief, that feeling you get when someone close to you die and departs from you. I remember crying, I didn't know what was happening. Then He wispered inside of me: “This is what hell feels like”. I there understood that hell is not dark, horrible and lonely because of the things some will see there, hell is all of those things because God is not there. I do not want to live eternity in a place without God.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

State of mind or not, the pain is still the same, even worse , and it is not worth not being saved.

Pain is pain in a fleshly body or not.

Jesus said it is better to go to heaven with one eye then to hell with two.

Can not have a eye with out a body.

"State of mind or not, the pain is still the same, even worse", how do you arrive at this?

 

[Danielwright2311]

"State of mind or not, the pain is still the same, even worse", how do you arrive at this?

Pain in your mind can still be felt, a state of mind is felt in the spirit, body or not.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

One time I was in my apartment and I asked God what was hell like. I was curious but also nervous because I didn't want Him to take me there. I was scared of the things I was going to see. So, the day went by and His presence just felt like a cloud, He was Present. The atmosphere felt spiritually clean. Later on, out of the blue I felt a sense of death, solitude, grief, that feeling you get when someone close to you die and departs from you. I remember crying, I didn't know what was happening. Then He wispered inside of me: “This is what hell feels like”. I there understood that hell is not dark, horrible and lonely because of the things some will see there, hell is all of those things because God is not there. I do not want to live eternity in a place without God.

are you saying that hell is not a place of eternal, conscious, suffering? Jesus Himself uses "outer darkness" (Matthew 8:12) to describe hell. Is He wrong?

 

[Alpha.Omega]

Pain in your mind can still be felt, a state of mind is felt in the spirit, body or not.

after death, it is the SOUL, the REAL YOU that will be "suffering eternally". There is no Biblical justification to limit the suffering of the lost only to the mind. If there is, then I would like to see some Bible verses

 

[Danielwright2311]

after death, it is the SOUL, the REAL YOU that will be "suffering eternally". There is no Biblical justification to limit the suffering of the lost only to the mind. If there is, then I would like to see some Bible verses

You mean like gnashing of teeth?
Gnawing your tonged?
Jesus telling us to pluck out a eye
rotting flesh
burning torment

 

[Danielwright2311]

after death, it is the SOUL, the REAL YOU that will be "suffering eternally". There is no Biblical justification to limit the suffering of the lost only to the mind. If there is, then I would like to see some Bible verses

And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Danielwright2311]

after death, it is the SOUL, the REAL YOU that will be "suffering eternally". There is no Biblical justification to limit the suffering of the lost only to the mind. If there is, then I would like to see some Bible verses

And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

 

[Oldmantook]

Sure, lets see the simple English what you wrote

You said very clearly, that Jesus and the angels are "present IN the lake of fire", which in simple English can only mean, that they were IN the lake of fire. "in the presence OF", which the text actually says, does not mean that they were IN. Both prepositions have different meanings! I am done on this.

The context determines interpretation which you simply ignore. The verse clearly and plainly states that those who suffer those torments in the lake of fire, experience such suffering in the presence of Jesus and the angels. Where are they being tormented? Answer: In the lake of fire and no where else but the lake of fire. Therefore in order to Jesus and the angels to be in their presence, Jesus and the angels have to be with them - in the lake of fire. Any more questions?

 

[Job3315]

are you saying that hell is not a place of eternal, conscious, suffering? Jesus Himself uses "outer darkness" (Matthew 8:12) to describe hell. Is He wrong?

It is, grief, solitud, death, torment are a conscious state of the soul, but it’s not caused by the terrifying things people will see, but because God is not present.

 

[Spikey]

God is not present, not much of a change there then.. Define what exactly a soul is please, I'm having trouble picturing it.

 

[Project Panda]

The Bible speaks of "hell" as existing in both Testaments. That is an actual place, and not just a "state of the mind", is clear from Acts 1:25, "That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own PLACE". The Greek τόπος, is used for "place, region", which are actual.

How do Christian's believe & love this God based on these penalties? Is it because of these penalties that they believe? Or do they really just love him, knowing all along in their faith that hell is waiting for them if they don't love him?

 

[Danielwright2311]

How do Christian's believe & love this God based on these penalties? Is it because of these penalties that they believe? Or do they really just love him, knowing all along in their faith that hell is waiting for them if they don't love him?

Its a relationship built by time and love and praise

Do I fear hell? You better believe it

But that is not why I believe. I believe because God choose me to believe, belief is a gift.

You are not saved if you do not believe and to be saved the lord makes you see him and hear him.

 

[Job3315]

God is not present, not much of a change there then.. Define what exactly a soul is please, I'm having trouble picturing it.

Soul: Mind, will and emotions. Those are the 3 things to cleanse with the Word. The word also grow our spirit.

Your body contains the soul and spirit. Your soul is who you are as a person (the software of a computer). Your body will return to the dirt, your soul is what lives forever with God or away from Him.

Once you taste His presence, you’ll be able to sense the difference. I might not sense His presence everyday as strong as other days, but my awareness of who He is makes it easier to stay strong on dark days. Thats how faith is developed as well.

 

[Spikey]

Do I fear hell? You better believe it

I couldn't have summed up Christianity any better myself.

 

[Project Panda]

One time I was in my apartment and I asked God what was hell like. I was curious but also nervous because I didn't want Him to take me there. I was scared of the things I was going to see. So, the day went by and His presence just felt like a cloud, He was Present. The atmosphere felt spiritually clean. Later on, out of the blue I felt a sense of death, solitude, grief, that feeling you get when someone close to you die and departs from you. I remember crying, I didn't know what was happening. Then He wispered inside of me: “This is what hell feels like”. I there understood that hell is not dark, horrible and lonely because of the things some will see there, hell is all of those things because God is not there. I do not want to live eternity in a place without God.

Why? You'll be fine, don't sweat the small stuff.