War

[381465]

Stawman.

What's a stawman?

 

[W2L]

From my understanding of that rule that applies to a particular person or group of people. For example, if I were to say you are not a Christian or that all Methodists are not Christians then that would violate the rule. My question is basically ( according to you) is being a pasfist part of being a Christian is it not OR is it something that various Christians may have a conviction about. How important is non-violence to being a Christian in other words particularly as it relates to OTHER people being threatened.

Whats Paul say?

3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

 

[W2L]

What's a stawman?

Its basically when you misrepresent my argument as saying something i never said.

 

[dogs4thewin]

God uses the heathen world to fight its own wars. It may be necessary, but its not our calling.

OH I think I understand you now you believe that no Christian is CALLED to war. Fair enough while I disagree fair enough. Also remember that as it relates to combat for every person on the front lines there are I believe seven support roles.

 

[devin553344]

Forgive me if if i'm in the wrong forum with this. If i am please let me know and i'll have staff move it. Thank you.

This thread addresses the morality of war. How can we support war? Shouldn't we be praying instead of bombing people?

Well, Moses was responsible in part for delivering slaves from Dictators of a sort. And he was successful and God appeared to support him I think. So the question might be, is Moses in heaven or somewhere else? He was responsible for defending Christianity for a long time and killed many people to defend the soil of the Christian flower

But I believe that man has the right to defend the rights of the people by stopping the criminals, and sometimes that means that the criminals die, especially if they're already guilty of killing the people. And I think in war, they are already judged as killers and marked as armed and dangerous. And although criminals are sometimes harmed or otherwise die, stopping the crimes and allowing for Christianity allows us to enjoy a fertile soil for the growth of the Christian ways.

So I think we shouldn't despise the peace keepers even if sometimes they decide bombing is the best course of action, after all it is their lives on the line out there in the war fields And they should be allowed some say in the actions of war.

 

[381465]

Its basically when you misrepresent my argument as saying something i never said.

Oh, strawman.

My mistake. I thought I was getting the impression that some here felt servicemen and women and police officers could not be Christians.

Frankly, if that's the case I shouldn't be allowed in/on a Christian Forum.

 

[W2L]

Well, Moses was responsible in part for delivering slaves from Dictators of a sort. And he was successful and God appeared to support him I think. So the question might be, is Moses in heaven or somewhere else? He was responsible for defending Christianity for a long time and killed many people to defend the soil of the Christian flower

But I believe that man has the right to defend the rights of the people by stopping the criminals, and sometimes that means that the criminals die, especially if they're already guilty of killing the people. And I think in war, they are already judged as killers and marked as armed and dangerous. And although criminals are sometimes harmed or otherwise die, stopping the crimes and allowing for Christianity allows us to enjoy a fertile soil for the growth of the Christian ways.

So I think we shouldn't despise the peace keepers even if sometimes they decide bombing is the best course of action, after all it is their lives on the line out there in the war fields And they should be allowed some say in the actions of war.

If you read my words earlier, you would have heard me say i am not anti military. They are in Gods hands, not mine. Im not their judge. Im separating military from the Church.

 

[W2L]

Oh, strawman.

My mistake. I thought I was getting the impression that some here felt servicemen and women and police officers could not be Christians.

No, im talking about Christians who support war. Its our Job to pray not support warfare. We are holy, separate. Im sure no Christian police officer wants to kill anyone.

 

[dogs4thewin]

No, im talking about Christians who support war. Its our Job to pray not support warfare. We are holy, separate. Im sure no Christian police officer wants to kill anyone.

I do not know any Christian or anyone for that matter who wants war or supports it as a first resort only if NOTHING else has worked.

 

[W2L]

I do not know any Christian or anyone for that matter who wants war or supports it as a first resort only if NOTHING else has worked.

Why is it ever a last resort though? Its the last resort of the world, not the Church. The Church is commanded to pray, not drop bombs. Do we lack faith in God, that he will hear our prayers for peace and justice? It sounds like you are saying that when your faith fails, promote and support warfare.

 

[devin553344]

If you read my words earlier, you would have heard me say i am not anti military. They are in Gods hands, not mine. Im not their judge. Im separating military from the Church.

Thanks for explaining your beliefs. I was in the Marine Corps, and what any good military personnel would probably explain is that in the military we have church services and clergy, so we intentionally don't separate war from church, in fact it helps the psychology of the personnel to maintain some sanity from the killing I would think, as I have never killed anyone, but understand how Christianity does in fact help those affected by it. And that is what I believe is correct, I'm just sharing my beliefs I suppose God Bless.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Why is it ever a last resort though? Its the last resort of the world, not the Church. The Church is commanded to pray, not drop bombs. Do we lack faith in God, that he will hear our prayers for peace and justice? It sounds like you are saying that when your faith fails, promote and support warfare.

You CAN do both sometimes God uses violence to restore peace. I can pray that violence will not be needed while at the same time realizing that in this fallen world it will be. For example, the folks that I know that have CCWs they do not leave the house praying I hope I have to use my gun today. No if anything they leave the house praying please do not have me need my gun today, but they carry it should they OR other people be threatened with violence. In the old testament God sometimes COMMANDED war. Now, I understand that we no longer live under old testament law, but we still do live in a fallen world and thus at times violence has to be, and in fact sometimes more people will die without war than with it.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Thanks for explaining your beliefs. I was in the Marine Corps, and what any good military personnel would probably explain is that in the military we have church services and clergy, so we intentionally don't separate war from church, in fact it helps the psychology of the personnel to maintain some sanity from the killing I would think, as I have never killed anyone, but understand how Christianity does in fact help those affected by it. And that is what I believe is correct, I'm just sharing my beliefs I suppose God Bless.

Thanks for your service and in fact in today's military I believe it is something like seven support roles for every combat role. HOWEVER, all service members must be willing to bear arms and may not be morally opposed to the practice.

 

[W2L]

Thanks for explaining your beliefs. I was in the Marine Corps, and what any good military personnel would probably explain is that in the military we have church services and clergy, so we intentionally don't separate war from church, in fact it helps the psychology of the personnel to maintain some sanity from the killing I would think, as I have never killed anyone, but understand how Christianity does in fact help those affected by it. And that is what I believe is correct, I'm just sharing my beliefs I suppose God Bless.

I understand not abandoning your faith in war, but we are commanded to pray not kill. Its my belief that we are called to be holy, and that means we are separate from the world. We dont act or look like the world. Its also my belief that God is the protector and avenger of His people. We dont go to war in the flesh. Paul made that very clear. I dont judge you however, because i judge only myself. As Paul said, im the chief sinner here. However, i speak what i believe to be true.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I understand not abandoning your faith in war, but we are commanded to pray not kill. Its my belief that we are called to be holy, and that means we are separate from the world. We dont act or look like the world. Its also my belief that God is the protector and avenger of His people. We dont go to war in the flesh. Paul made that very clear. I dont judge you however, because i judge only myself. As Paul said, im the chief sinner here. However, i speak what i believe to be true.

Actually the commandment is do not murder not do not kill there is a difference. What I HONESTLY do not get about your position is you say you realize violence is sometimes needed, so does that mean you do not want everyone to be saved that are the good guys and protect from the bad people?

 

[devin553344]

You CAN do both sometimes God uses violence to restore peace. I can pray that violence will not be needed while at the same time realizing that in this fallen world it will be. For example, the folks that I know that have CCWs they do not leave the house praying I hope I have to use my gun today. No if anything they leave the house praying please do not have me need my gun today, but they carry it should they OR other people be threatened with violence. In the old testament God sometimes COMMANDED war. Now, I understand that we no longer live under old testament law, but we still do live in a fallen world and thus at times violence has to be, and in fact sometimes more people will die without war than with it.

I also pray for peace not war, thanks for your prayers, I think the military would also be thankful of prayers that might be in the spirit of sparing them suffering

 

[devin553344]

Actually the commandment is do not murder not do not kill there is a difference. What I HONESTLY do not get about your position is you say you realize violence is sometimes needed, so does that mean you do not want everyone to be saved that are the good guys and protect from the bad people?

With a person like you I feel safer, that is a wonderful position of not killing

 

[W2L]

You CAN do both sometimes God uses violence to restore peace. I can pray that violence will not be needed while at the same time realizing that in this fallen world it will be. For example, the folks that I know that have CCWs they do not leave the house praying I hope I have to use my gun today. No if anything they leave the house praying please do not have me need my gun today, but they carry it should they OR other people be threatened with violence. In the old testament God sometimes COMMANDED war. Now, I understand that we no longer live under old testament law, but we still do live in a fallen world and thus at times violence has to be, and in fact sometimes more people will die without war than with it.

My point is that we are to be separate from the world, and pray. We let God execute judgement.

You guys are saying that when prayer fails, pick up arms and march off to war. I dont agree. Paul clearly says that we dont war in the flesh. Also remember that im not saying God doesnt go to war. Im saying we dont. God is the avenger upon the lawless, according to my understanding.

 

[dogs4thewin]

With a person like you I feel safer, that is a wonderful position of not killing

I WANTED to serve BADLY since I was just ten ( after 9/11 I am 25 now with an Aug birthday) However my CP and seizure history makes me unfit, but if I could have I would have signed that dotted line as soon as I legally could with the DEP or as soon as I graduated high school.

 

[W2L]

I also pray for peace not war, thanks for your prayers, I think the military would also be thankful of prayers that might be in the spirit of sparing them suffering

Exactly. Finally we agree on something. Thank you.