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BigNorsk said:

If I may add to the "all" debate. See the thing is, that pretty clearly all does not mean absolutely every single one in many contexts in the bible.

For instance "All have sinned..." Now clearly there is one very obviouse exception, Jesus. So all doesn't mean absolutely all.

That's a given.

But at that point Calvinist theology leaves the question and just makes a leap that since all doens't necessarily mean all, that then it means only the elect.

Here's the problem. While all might not quite mean all. It's never used to only mean a small bunch or a minority. Ant that's really how Calvinists use it. Ask your pastor what percentage of people in the world he beilieves are elect, are saved. If he thinks about it, I doubt he would come up with anything over maybe 10%, but possibly higher, say 25%. So this is a huge leap from all doesn't mean all, to all only means a few.

The only ways he could get higher is to adopt nonCalvinistic beliefs, like general revelation can save or that a good Muslim or Hindu could be saved or some such thing, or reject salvation through faith, but I doubt he will do those. But he does, because he doesn't think about it, take all which can have some exceptions and make it mean some or a few.

Some will try to finesse it and say well it's all because the saved come from all nations, again just ask him to show you multiple locations where all means a few from many places and he won't be able to.

So all doesn't mean all, but the meaning in Greek is not the equivalent to some or the minority or a handful either. All just doesn't fit the elect.

Marv

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