Wait, what?

[Andrei D]

When Americans Say They Believe in God, What Do They Mean?

A few head scratching highlights:

"Sizable minorities of Catholics (28%) and mainline Protestants (26%) say they believe in a higher power or spiritual force, but not in God as described in the Bible."

"...just six-in-ten Catholics and mainline Protestants say God [is] all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful..."

"...among college graduates, fewer than half (45%) say they believe in the biblical God."

"...85% of Republicans believe God loves all people"

"...seven-in-ten or more of nonwhite Democrats believe in God as described in the Bible, and say they believe God is all-loving, all-knowing or all-powerful" but "just one-in-three white Democrats believe God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving."

When Americans Say They Believe in God, What Do They Mean?

 

[Albion]

When Americans Say They Believe in God, What Do They Mean?

A few head scratching highlights:

"Sizable minorities of Catholics (28%) and mainline Protestants (26%) say they believe in a higher power or spiritual force, but not in God as described in the Bible."

"...just six-in-ten Catholics and mainline Protestants say God [is] all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful..."

What is the purpose for omitting any mention of EVANGELICAL Protestants, although they were listed in the poll results along with (all) Catholics and Mainline Protestants?

If we take ALL Protestants and compare them with all Catholics, the Protestants come in as much more conventional or orthodox in their beliefs than the Catholics.

 

[FenderTL5]

What is the purpose for omitting any mention of EVANGELICAL Protestants, although they were listed in the poll results along with (all) Catholics and Mainline Protestants?

If we take ALL Protestants and compare them with all Catholics, the Protestants come in as much more conventional or orthodox in their beliefs than the Catholics.

Just a guess:
It's the Eastern Orthodox forum.

 

[Albion]

Just a guess:
It's the Eastern Orthodox forum.

Well, what would Orthodox Christians have to lose by simply comparing (all) Roman Catholics with (all) Protestants, especially since that is what the poll itself does?

 

[Andrei D]

What is the purpose for omitting any mention of EVANGELICAL Protestants, although they were listed in the poll results along with (all) Catholics and Mainline Protestants?

If we take ALL Protestants and compare them with all Catholics, the Protestants come in as much more conventional or orthodox in their beliefs than the Catholics.

You mean me? I highlighted what I found head scratching. I think black Protestants and Evangelicals' beliefs are not head scratching (in this poll).

 

[Albion]

OK, I see now how you looked at it.

 

[FenderTL5]

Well, what would Orthodox Christians have to lose by simply comparing (all) Roman Catholics with (all) Protestants, especially since that is what the poll itself does?

I read the methodology on the study; since Orthodox was not identified, that generally means that Orthodox results are grouped with Catholics. So a particular interest is shown in the Catholic results.. that may or may not not be what the OP thought. Which is why i responded, "just a guess."

 

[Halbhh]

When Americans Say They Believe in God, What Do They Mean?

A few head scratching highlights:

"Sizable minorities of Catholics (28%) and mainline Protestants (26%) say they believe in a higher power or spiritual force, but not in God as described in the Bible."

"...just six-in-ten Catholics and mainline Protestants say God [is] all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful..."

"...among college graduates, fewer than half (45%) say they believe in the biblical God."

"...85% of Republicans believe God loves all people"

"...seven-in-ten or more of nonwhite Democrats believe in God as described in the Bible, and say they believe God is all-loving, all-knowing or all-powerful" but "just one-in-three white Democrats believe God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving."
View attachment 227276
When Americans Say They Believe in God, What Do They Mean?

Really great information. Didn't realize Pew had finished a new survey. It's normal that only some portion of people in a church truly believe, but it has probably gone up at least in some denominations because of the not-believers just leaving finally, as being Christian is no longer as socially necessary as it was in the U.S. 50 years ago. It's become socially acceptable in most areas to stay home, no church, and that means the people actually attending are more likely to truly believe. That won't hold in a church where non-attendance is a real social negative, but instead in that kind of church/culture, even the non believers will continue to attend because of that social pressure, though of course this is backward looking to say so.

 

[Albion]

I read the methodology on the study; since Orthodox was not identified, that generally means that Orthodox results are grouped with Catholics. So a particular interest is shown in the Catholic results.. that may or may not not be what the OP thought.

I would hope that a poll that takes pains to keep mainline Protestants separate from evangelical Protestants would not be as sloppy as to do that--but it could be.

He says he was simply highlighting the most dismal parts of the findings, period. I get it.

 

[FenderTL5]

I would hope that a poll that takes pains to keep mainline Protestants separate from evangelical Protestants would not be as sloppy as to do that--but it could be.

It actually does that (see screenshot below). It could be that there were no Orthodox participants at all... who knows?

He says he was simply highlighting the most dismal parts of the findings, period. I get it.

It's all good. I was merely guessing at that point anyway.

 

[Principal Moo]

OK, I see now how you looked at it.[/QUOTE

When Americans Say They Believe in God, What Do They Mean?

A few head scratching highlights:

"Sizable minorities of Catholics (28%) and mainline Protestants (26%) say they believe in a higher power or spiritual force, but not in God as described in the Bible."

"...just six-in-ten Catholics and mainline Protestants say God [is] all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful..."

"...among college graduates, fewer than half (45%) say they believe in the biblical God."

"...85% of Republicans believe God loves all people"

"...seven-in-ten or more of nonwhite Democrats believe in God as described in the Bible, and say they believe God is all-loving, all-knowing or all-powerful" but "just one-in-three white Democrats believe God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving."
View attachment 227276
When Americans Say They Believe in God, What Do They Mean?

As a proud American, I hate to say this, but: this is why I will not move my family back to the US right now.

 

[ArmyMatt]

'tis a sad state of affairs.

 

[Radagast]

I read the methodology on the study; since Orthodox was not identified, that generally means that Orthodox results are grouped with Catholics.

Pew wouldn't do that. They have a standard methodology for classifying religion.

I imagine that the Orthodox, being a small group in the US, are included in the Christian category, but not described separately (there wouldn't be enough Orthodox in the sample to get truly meaningful percentages).

 

[Radagast]

It actually does that (see screenshot below).

So, doing some arithmetic, there were 176 Christians in the sample who were neither Catholic nor Protestant (out of 2990 Christians in total, and 4729 people in total).

The Orthodox would be included among the 176. Knowing Pew, they probably included Mormons in that 176 as well (rather than counting Mormons as non-Christian).

Doing some further arithmetic, 77% of those 176 people say that they believe in the God of the Bible (compared to 69% of Catholics and 91% of Evangelical Protestants).

 

[Radagast]

'tis a sad state of affairs.

Yes.

 

[FenderTL5]

Pew wouldn't do that. They have a standard methodology for classifying religion.

I imagine that the Orthodox, being a small group in the US, are included in the Christian category, but not described separately (there wouldn't be enough Orthodox in the sample to get truly meaningful percentages).

This could very well be true. The tell-tale nomenclature of "all Catholics" is not used in this one.

 

[dzheremi]

The United States is a religiously illiterate society, and this illiteracy is only getting worse as our society is increasingly aggressively secularized/secularizing, so none of these bizarre or depressing statistics are all that surprising.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The United States is a religiously illiterate society, and this illiteracy is only getting worse as our society is increasingly aggressively secularized/secularizing, so none of these bizarre or depressing statistics are all that surprising.

I sometimes hear religious discussions among students in school. Sadly I am prevented from instructing them in that context. (I'm trying to see whether asking them questions in a way that makes them think might be possible ... ?) But hearing them say how they understand what they are told ... is very revealing.

The ones who are searching are often getting their info from the loudest voices in the media. And those aren't Orthodox or anything like it. Often they are the more fringe-type beliefs.

 

[Andrei D]

those aren't Orthodox or anything like it. Often they are the more fringe-type beliefs.

A little ironic seeing how I am always perceived as the fringiest of the fringe for being Orthodx, lol

 

[~Anastasia~]

A little ironic seeing how I am always perceived as the fringiest of the fringe for being Orthodx, lol

You have a point ...