Wait or take action?

[heartnsoul]

I happened to browse the internet the other night and read the biography on Amy Grant. Apparently her ex husband, Gary Chapman, was a drug addict when they first got married. So their marriage was in turmoil from day one according to a close friend of Gary's.

As you know, she had divorced Gary after 16 years of marriage and is now married to Vince Gill who also divorced his wife of 17 years. They have a blended family with 3 kids from Amy's previous marriage and 1 daughter from Vince's last marriage. There isn't really too much info on the details of their divorces except that Amy has tried marital counseling and still decided to file for separation and then divorce because she has given her heart to Vince. From what I read, they've been married for over five years and are very happy and cherish each other.

Do you think she should have waited on God to deliver her from her painful marriage...or was it justified for her to take action and create her own destiny? All responses/opinions are welcome. Please be respectful to each other on the differing opinions. I love analyzing truths and am sincerely looking for the truth in Amy's decision.

 

[Soon Rev 22:11-12]

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

 

[plum]

wouldn't that hinge on one's view of the Master's teachings on divorce? that's a pretty rough subject for folks to deal with, understand, and see objectively.

 

[plum]

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

the entire section of Scripture is needed for context:

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Matthew 19:3-12[/font] 3 Some P'rushim came and tried to trap him by asking, "Is it permitted for a man to divorce his wife on any ground whatever?" 4 He replied, "Haven't you read that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, 5 and that he said, `For this reason a man should leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two are to become one flesh'? 6 Thus they are no longer two, but one. So then, no one should split apart what God has joined together." 7 They said to him, "Then why did Moshe give the commandment that a man should hand his wife a get and divorce her?" 8 He answered, "Moshe allowed you to divorce your wives because your hearts are so hardened. But this is not how it was at the beginning. 9 Now what I say to you is that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery!" 10 The talmidim said to him, "If that is how things are between husband and wife, it would be better not to marry!" 11 He said to them, "Not everyone grasps this teaching, only those for whom it is meant. 12 For there are different reasons why men do not marry -- some because they were born without the desire, some because they have been castrated, and some because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whoever can grasp this, let him do so."

My midrash (personal insight) on the highlighted statements is the following: The ideal in the beginning was a perfect relationship with the Father as illustrated by Adam walking together with the L-rd in Eden. Before the fall, there was no need for divorce to be an option, because before the fall Adam and Chava (Eve) followed G-d perfectly because there was no sin between them against G-d.
However, when the fall occurred, the need for words on divorce was present because of the consequences of sin, and so Moshe (Moses) was given that commandment to give to Israel about when divorce would be appropriate.

But as we see in the Sermon on the Mount, Yeshua/Jesus is calling us to a much higher standard. He says we should be perfect as our Father is perfect! We should follow G-d and walk with Him like Adam did. Since we are saved from the condemnation of our sins, we should strive to live according to G-d's ways without excuse or exception. And so if we have been born anew as a new creation and we are joined together with our spouse as one flesh and are following G-d together as Adam and Chava did before the fall... then there should be no need for divorce. Let no man put asunder what G-d has joined together... so in this, Yeshua is calling believers to a higher standard, still in line with the Torah (as he allows for divorce due to sexual immorality since he knows we are still sinners).

So in the case of Amy Grant... I don't believe she or her husband are exempt from the explicit words of Yeshua in that passage. They have committed adultery. But none of us can cast stones at her because we have all sinned against G-d. And I'm sure G-d will respond to our sins and their sins as the Just G-d that he is.

So no, I don't think, spiritually speaking, it was okay for her to "take action and create her own destiny"... of course her ex's sins were a huge reason why their marriage was ruined from the beginning... but there are many this-world consequences for our sins. That ruined marriage was one of them, perhaps.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I believe this is best left up to the Father. Anything outside the Father's will is sin and divorce is outside His will. However, lying, cheating, gossiping, bragging, etc... are also sins and outside His will. How many of us have been guilty of any of these since being a Christian? I suppose even this thread is a bit gossipy so let's just checkmark 'all' for the last question. The important thing is to concentrate on our own marriages and less time focusing or judging other's relationships.

 

[heartnsoul]

I believe this is best left up to the Father. Anything outside the Father's will is sin and divorce is outside His will. However, lying, cheating, gossiping, bragging, etc... are also sins and outside His will. How many of us have been guilty of any of these since being a Christian? I suppose even this thread is a bit gossipy so let's just checkmark 'all' for the last question. The important thing is to concentrate on our own marriages and less time focusing or judging other's relationships.

I agree with you. However, my intention is not to gossip about Amy Grant. I am using her life as a real model for discussion because 97% of marriages are struggling and many married people can understand the complexity of Amy Grant's dilemma and her choices. Some things are better kept in the closet and not worth bringing out into the light, but I feel this subject needs to be discussed, analyzed and let the truths be heard. So while I agree with your post, I would ask that you please not disrupt the harmony of my thread and allow the freedom of others to express his/her opinions in response to my question. Thank you. No hard feelings from my end.

For those who replied so far, I appreciate your honesty and opinions. Keep the ideas coming!

 

[holo]

I think it was good that she made the obviously heavy choice to end a non-functioning marriage.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Thank you. No hard feelings from my end.

Thanks....my comments weren't actually directed at you but more in general to everybody. Sorry if it seemed I singled you out

Just curious, where'd you get the information that 97% of marriages are struggling? It's a fallacy that 50% of marriages end in divorce. We took a look at it in a grad-level stats course of mine and we came up with about 1/3 or so being more accurate...anyhow, I am interested in how somebody would come up with the 97% figure. I know too many content couples to believe it

 

[heartnsoul]

Thanks....my comments weren't actually directed at you but more in general to everybody. Sorry if it seemed I singled you out

I, too, am sorry for the misunderstanding.

Just curious, where'd you get the information that 97% of marriages are struggling? It's a fallacy that 50% of marriages end in divorce. We took a look at it in a grad-level stats course of mine and we came up with about 1/3 or so being more accurate...anyhow, I am interested in how somebody would come up with the 97% figure. I know too many content couples to believe it

I heard that just recently about two weeks ago on a Christian Radio program called "New Life Ministries". Steve Auterburn and Dr. Henry Cloud were hosts on the show that day and were discussing this subject. I wasn't surprised of the 97% figure because most marriages I know of are either unequally-yoked or are struggling due to spiritual immaturity. So there is something to be said about waiting for the right, spiritual mature partner. Just check out the marriage forum here on the CF and you can see all the struggles that Christians are dealing with. Not saying that marriages can't improve and grow because we all know they can with faith and commitment to God. However, the 97% figure just shows the impatience of most of us when it comes to developing spiritual maturity and waiting on God. Hind sight is always 20-20...and I'm sure Amy Grant could attest to that fact.

 

[Lynn73]

Since I'm in my third marriage I can't say a whole lot. The ideal and right thing is God's way but we don't always succeed at that.

 

[ephraimanesti]

I happened to browse the internet the other night and read the biography on Amy Grant. Apparently her ex husband, Gary Chapman, was a drug addict when they first got married. So their marriage was in turmoil from day one according to a close friend of Gary's.

As you know, she had divorced Gary after 16 years of marriage and is now married to Vince Gill who also divorced his wife of 17 years. They have a blended family with 3 kids from Amy's previous marriage and 1 daughter from Vince's last marriage. There isn't really too much info on the details of their divorces except that Amy has tried marital counseling and still decided to file for separation and then divorce because she has given her heart to Vince. From what I read, they've been married for over five years and are very happy and cherish each other.

Do you think she should have waited on God to deliver her from her painful marriage...or was it justified for her to take action and create her own destiny? All responses/opinions are welcome. Please be respectful to each other on the differing opinions. I love analyzing truths and am sincerely looking for the truth in Amy's decision.

DEAR SISTER,

AMY'S DECISION IS BETWEEN HERSELF AND GOD. THE TRUTH LIES IN GOD'S HANDS ALONE.​

ephraim

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I'd like to do a little informal poll in the marriage forum about the 97% struggling thing. Whenever I go in there I see alot of problems being posted but I think the content folk just are not posting as much. I see problem marriages...hubby's family having many of them but I also see so many good marriages. I'll post the link after I get the poll up. Just guessing, I'd say the 'struggling' percentage will be between 25 to 40% (and I think that could be high) but I could be wrong.

okay, here we go...it's a pretty basic question but I'll be interested in reading the results. I'd be very surprised if the number is high. I don't blame anybody for repeating the statistic but I think it is irresponsible for folks on the radio to give these type of statistics because they will be quoted and this is a big part of the reason the misleading 50% divorce rate statistic is out there.

 

[plum]

Since I'm in my third marriage I can't say a whole lot. The ideal and right thing is God's way but we don't always succeed at that.

of course that is true. the ideal is always the ideal, but as we know, we can't even save ourselves on our own. that leap is much too far for any of us

 

[woobadooba]

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

So do you think the marriage is damned? And do you think she should get rid of the guy that she is married to now in order to appease a wrathful God?

Does God want His children to be happy or lonely?

 

[revduane]

So do you think the marriage is damned? And do you think she should get rid of the guy that she is married to now in order to appease a wrathful God?

Does God want His children to be happy or lonely?

One thing that I am so grateful to God for. He is so graceful, and merciful to clean up my mess when i screw up, or get ahead of Him. These things don't happen too often, because of me learning the hard way, but they do happen.

Hey Woob.

God Bless ya bud. Hope your day was good, and blessed. Tip for the day.

Never go anywhere of long distance with a Jehovahs Witness, because you can be sure, that when the trip ends, you may be brought up on charges for homicide, for beating him with his own Bible.

Blessings. Rev.

 

[woobadooba]

Never go anywhere of long distance with a Jehovahs Witness, because you can be sure, that when the trip ends, you may be brought up on charges for homicide, for beating him with his own Bible.

LOL

 

[Veritas]

I think it was good that she made the obviously heavy choice to end a non-functioning marriage.

I'm sure glad God doesn't give up on "non-functioning" relationships with us.

 

[Veritas]

So do you think the marriage is damned? And do you think she should get rid of the guy that she is married to now in order to appease a wrathful God?

Does God want His children to be happy or lonely?

False dichotomy. God wants us to be faithful....to Him and those we are sacramentally joined. Some of our choices can make us unhappy. I've had this experience. Should I just ask God when I see Him face-to-face, "well, didn't you want me to be happy?"

 

[harvester]

I happened to browse the internet the other night and read the biography on Amy Grant. Apparently her ex husband, Gary Chapman, was a drug addict when they first got married. So their marriage was in turmoil from day one according to a close friend of Gary's.

ans: she chooses to marry a drug addict, then she should face the consequences.

As you know, she had divorced Gary after 16 years of marriage and is now married to Vince Gill who also divorced his wife of 17 years. They have a blended family with 3 kids from Amy's previous marriage and 1 daughter from Vince's last marriage. There isn't really too much info on the details of their divorces except that Amy has tried marital counseling and still decided to file for separation and then divorce because she has given her heart to Vince. From what I read, they've been married for over five years and are very happy and cherish each other.

ans: why did he give her heart to vince? they are not yet married and amy has husband. love endures, perseveres and long sufferings. and again she choosed to
enter the situation.

Do you think she should have waited on God to deliver her from her painful marriage...or was it justified for her to take action and create her own destiny? All responses/opinions are welcome. Please be respectful to each other on the differing opinions. I love analyzing truths and am sincerely looking for the truth in Amy's decision.

ans: i think amy should have not done that... like what was written in matt. 5:32. she committed a sin. and for a christian sinning should never be an option.
also, she did not only violate matthew 5:32, but she doesnt trust GOD to protect her
at her old age( 16 years of marriage, am assuming that she is almost 40) hehehe

one more thing is her reason was not valid, she divorced her husband bec. of another man.

 

[woobadooba]

False dichotomy. God wants us to be faithful....to Him and those we are sacramentally joined. Some of our choices can make us unhappy. I've had this experience. Should I just ask God when I see Him face-to-face, "well, didn't you want me to be happy?"

You missed the point! A person can be happy doing drugs, but does that bring him into favor with God? Of course not.

But should God condemn a person who has had enough of an abusive relationship, merely because he/she couldn't bear the pain of spending the rest of his/her life alone, and thus decided to get a divorce and eventually remarry?

Maybe your view of God is one that would show no mercy to such a person, but my view of God is that He is loving, kind, and merciful. And He is a God who wants good things for His children.

And besides, who are you to presume that Amy Grant isn't faithful to God, or anyone else for that matter, who has had a similar experience? You know, she may be a lot closer to God than you think she is, perhaps even more than you are.

Matt. 7:1-2