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Wait a minute, if the Beast has...

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by RDoubleU, Mar 4, 2012.

  1. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    The Antichrist's religious claims could include the claim that he's Maitreya (the bodhisattva prophesied by Buddhism, the 5th incarnation of Buddha in the present kalpa), for the Gnostic part of the Antichrist's religion of Gnostic Luciferianism has some core teachings in common with Buddhism:

    1. The material realm is unreal and evil. (Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Maya", from Hinduism.)

    2. People must strive to escape the material realm completely and enter into a state which is wholly non-physical (Parinirvana in Buddhism, the Pleroma in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Brahman", from Hinduism.

    3. The way for people to get free from their imprisonment within the material realm is through their minds attaining a certain level of enlightenment (Nirvana in Buddhism, Gnosis in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Moksha", from Hinduism.

    4. The way for their minds to attain this certain level of enlightenment is through following the way of the Serpent (one legend of Buddhism says that the Buddha was given the true Buddhism by the King of the Serpents; and in Gnosticism, Gnosis comes from the Christ/the Serpent). Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea of the enlightening serpent, originally called "Kundalini", from Hinduism. (Regarding the serpent in Gen. 3, Gnostics see him as the good guy, just as they see YHWH as the bad guy.)


    The Bible contradicts each of the four points above:

    1. The material realm is real, and was created very good (Gen. 1:31). God himself is in the flesh (Jn. 1:1,14, Lk. 24:39) and remains wholly without sin (Heb. 4:15). So there's nothing evil about matter in itself.

    2. People must strive to attain to a resurrection (Philip. 3:11) into an immortal human body of flesh and bone, like the immortal human body of flesh and bone which Jesus obtained at his resurrection (Lk. 24:39, Philip. 3:21, 1 Cor. 15:21-23,51-54, Rom. 8:23-25), and in which Jesus will remain forever as our fully-human mediator (1 Tim. 2:5), our fully-human high priest (Heb. 2:16-17, 7:24-26). His tomb is empty (Mt. 28:6), and when he returns he will show the scars of the crucifixion on his body (Zech. 13:6, 12:10-14).

    3. Resurrected people who have been truly enlightened (Eph. 1:18, or "illuminated": Heb. 10:32) by Jesus (Jn. 14:6-7, 8:32, 3:36) will remain in the material realm, ultimately living on a new earth with God himself (Rev. 21:1-4).

    4. The Serpent, Satan/Lucifer, is the deceiver of the whole world (Rev. 12:9).
  2. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    The Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Rev. 13:5-18), won't support Judaism (in its past and current form), insofar as Judaism worships YHWH (Deut. 6:4-5), whereas the Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Dan. 11:36, Rev. 13:5). And Judaism rejects Satan/Lucifer as being evil (Zech. 3:2, Isa. 14:12), whereas the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon) (Rev. 13:4, 12:9). And Judaism forbids the worship of any images (Lev. 26:1), whereas the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Rev. 13:15). Regarding the idea of the Antichrist being Jewish by blood, both his parents could be Arabs (if his mother wasn't impregnated by Satan). But from some long-ago ancestor the Antichrist could also have some Jewish blood in him, from the tribe of Dan (Gen. 49:17), which could be the reason why the tribe of Dan isn't included in the 12 tribes of the 144,000 (Rev. 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Num. 1:32, Ps. 78:67, Ezek. 37:16b,19).

    The Antichrist could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezek. 28:2, cf. 2 Thes. 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the 2nd coming of a God-man named "Hakim". The Antichrist's last name could be "Hakim", and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the 2nd coming of the God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Dan. 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the 1st stage of his world takeover) and employ them as loyal spies at all levels of his United Arab government and military.

    The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.


    The symbolic whore "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) doesn't represent only the Vatican. For, while the corrupt aspects of the Vatican (as well as of other church headquarters) are certainly included in what "Babylon" represents, she represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of the Vatican. For the Vatican just by itself doesn't reign over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18). Nor is the Vatican the only place on the earth where people buy merchandise (Rev. 18:11). Nor is the Vatican the place where all martyrs have been killed (Rev. 18:24). Nor has the Vatican just by itself corrupted the entire world (Rev. 18:3). Nor has the Vatican been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Rev. 17:7,9-10).

    The symbolic whore "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Rev. 17:18), economic (Rev. 18:11), and religious (Rev. 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Rev. 18:3) and throughout history (Rev. 17:9-10).
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2012
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture view

    Well I agree that the Antichrist beast is not going to support Judaism for that final 42 months, nominal 3.5 years, worldwide reign. But before he enters that stage of his career, he will be embraced by the Jews as their King messiah. Which, in order for that to happen, he has to be a Jew.

    It is real simple if you look at the Antichrist progressing through his career. There are four stages. In order, from start to finish.

    1. little horn politician rising up among EU kings.
    2. False King messiah of Israel
    3. Man of sin, son of perdition
    4. Antichrist beast

    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  4. zeke37

    zeke37 IMO...

    antiChrist is not a man of flesh
    it's Satan.
    see Ez28 and Isa14

    Isa14:10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
    11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
    12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
    16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
    18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
    19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
    20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

    Rz28:12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
    13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
    14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
    16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
    17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
    18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
    19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture view

    Zeke, I highlighted part of your quote in red. In Isaiah 14, it refers to him being a man, not an angel. His body is in the grave, but gets booted out - the Antichrist coming back alive, the wounded head that will be healed in Revelation 13.

    Ezekiel 28:12-19 is about Satan, agreed. It is the first part of Ezekiel 28 that is about the Antichrist. As the man of sin, the son of perdition, 2thess2, he goes into the temple, sits in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

    Now look at what it says in Ezekiel 28.

    1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
    3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
    4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
    5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
    6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
    7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
    8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
    9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
    10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

    God has the Antichrist, in his man of sin-son of perdition stage, killed for going into the temple and claiming to be God. In Isaiah 14, the part highlighted in red, in His disdain for him, being a Jew who betrays his people and his land, God has him kicked out of the grave - like abominable branch, opposite to Jesus the righteous branch. He will be a Jew.

    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture view

    Great Babylon, in Revelation 16, is the ancient Babylon, tower of Babel, rebellion against God. In Revelation 17, the whore carries on the traditions of ancient Babylon, incorporating the legends surrounding Nimrod which resulted in Easter, Mary worship, etc, which would be the Vatican. I agree the Mystery Babylon is not limited to the Vatican and the RCC.

    In Revelation 18, the port city of trading that will be destroyed, imo, is Rome which will be destroyed when the Vatican is destroyed.

    The reason I think Nimrod is the beast in the bottomless pit is that unifying the earth's population in rebellion against God started with Nimrod. Which is common to what the Antichrist beast will do in the last 42 months.

  7. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    Based on what scripture? For "anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who's "against" the true Christ, as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 Jn. 2:22), or denies that Christ is the human/divine Son of God (1 Jn. 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 Jn. 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 Jn. 4:3) has been working since the 1st century AD (2 Thes. 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 Jn. 2:18, 2 Jn. 1:7). The Antichrist (the AC) won't claim to be Christ, for his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer/Satan could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 Jn. 2:22) during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the AC (Rev. 13:4-18), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18.

    But none of this means there won't also be multiple false human Christs who will arise during the trib (Mt. 24:24), including 1 who will be a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the trib, the AC could "cut" a peace treaty with a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" (Dan. 9:26a, 11:22-23a), promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep a 3rd Jewish temple (Rev. 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, for at least 7 more years (Dan. 9:27a).

    The 10 kings won't all have to be European, for Dan. 7's 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Dan. 7:17,23), is the ancient Roman Empire. The 10 horns/kings (Dan. 7:7,24) which come out of it could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman Empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 iron/clay toes of Dan. 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Dan. 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Dan. 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, e.g., there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

    But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand, and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other, could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into 1 confederation. The person who could bring this about could be the Antichrist (the AC). The arising of the "little" horn (Dan. 7:8, 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Dan. 7:24), could mean the AC will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations could mean the AC's country's territory used to be part of the Roman Empire. And before that, it could have been part of 1 of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Dan. 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the AC could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezek. 28:2, 2 Thes. 2:4).

    The AC could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist confederation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Dan. 7:24): Egypt ("toward the south" of Lebanon: Dan. 8:9), Iraq and Syria ("toward the east" of Lebanon: Dan. 8:9). This confederation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine (i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land": Dan. 8:9). This Baathist confederation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt (Dan. 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Dan. 11:19) shortly before the AC arises on the world stage (Dan. 11:21-45). Years later, when the AC gains control over all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Rev. 17:12) who will defer to him, like, e.g., when Napoleon gained control over different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.


    The symbolic whore "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Rev. 17:18), economic (Rev. 18:11), and religious (Rev. 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Rev. 18:3) and throughout history (Rev. 17:9-10). The 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire all that "Babylon" represents (Rev. 17:16-17a) when they destroy the cities of the earth (Rev. 16:19), possibly with nukes (and possibly with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Rev. 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Rev. 16:17b) of the future tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:2-20:6, Mt. 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Satan/Lucifer (Isa. 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

    Near the very end of the trib, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and the 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil YHWH is about to begin [Rev. 16:14, 19:19], a battle which we'll win, and so we'll be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma. So let us now completely destroy this awful prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, completely burn up all the gewgaws which we've hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break every chain of attachment to this vile material realm, that we might more freely ascend back into our rightful place in the blessed Pleroma".

    Of course this will be a total lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: Jn. 10:30, Zech. 14:3-4) will completely defeat the armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Rev. 16:14, 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent millennium (Rev. 20:1-6). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezek. 36:35, Isa. 51:3). And after the millennium and subsequent events are over (Rev. 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Rev. 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Rev. 21:2-4).

    There could be a future, literal tower of Babel, as it were. For if science eventually detects "the God Particle" in the LHC and comes to admit that it's a non-physical particle, which science could call the "spiriton", some scientists could still refuse to believe in and submit themselves to God (YHWH), saying that the existence of spiritons (i.e. spirit) doesn't require that there's one infinite, conscious spirit-being called "God" or "YHWH". And in its subsequent experiments with spirit, science could come into contact with the evil spirit-being called Satan, or Lucifer, who could manifest himself in some high-energy experiment and claim that he's the true God of mankind and must be worshipped, so that a nascent spiritual science could be hijacked and employed by Lucifer and his worshippers as one part of their coming deception by which the world eventually will be deceived into worshipping Lucifer (the dragon) and his human son the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-18).

    The unity of mankind that will occur at that time could be like that which occurred at the time of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:6), and there could even be an end-time equivalent to the Tower of Babel, which could be built in the rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For Lucifer could show mankind how to build there a huge tower device, a huge spiritual machine the size of the Empire State Building which will be able to send up into the sky an incredibly powerful spiritual beam analogous to a laser. Near the end of the tribulation, Lucifer could tell mankind that it will need to employ this huge weapon during an impending battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:14b, Revelation 19:19). Mixing some science fiction with some ancient lies of Gnosticism, Lucifer could tell mankind something like:

    "YHWH is now heading toward the earth in his gigantic spaceship which is shaped like a Borg Cube [cf. Revelation 21:2a,16]. He's coming to enslave you and to turn you all into Borg-like automatons. But this mighty Tower Device will be able to blow his Borg Cube and him to bits with its spiritual ray. Then we can focus the Tower Device on any point of empty space until it burns in space-time a hole, a portal through which I will lead your spirits out of this vile material universe which YHWH made to be your prison, and I will lead you back up into the purely-spiritual realm of the Pleroma, where you can live in bliss as gods forever, doing as you please, just as you had done for all ages past with me before we by mistake fell into YHWH's trap of this material universe".

    Before the second coming happens, Lucifer could prove the power of the Tower Device to mankind by letting the Antichrist or his False Prophet use it to blow up some large asteroids out in space, so that mankind will go into its battle against YHWH in full confidence that it will be able to destroy him. But when the battle comes the device won't work against YHWH (cf. Psalms 21:11, KJV). Instead, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will take total victory in the battle (Revelation 19:11-20:6).

    The 7 heads of the beast in its empire aspect (Rev. 13:1, 17:3) represent 7 empires (Rev. 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the 1st century AD: "five are fallen" (Rev. 17:10, 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Rev. 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) had not come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Rev. 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the AC) (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Rev. 17:11), which will be a revival of 1 of the 5 empires which had fallen by the time of John (Rev. 17:8,10-11). It could be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The AC may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Dan. 3, Rev. 13:15).

    And the AC could make his world capital in the rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq), and build a main temple to himself (and Lucifer/Satan) there. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zech. 5:8,11), and the AC is called "that Wicked" (2 Thes. 2:8). He may also claim to be Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Gen. 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, et al. For the AC may claim that he's had many different "past lives" as different human rulers.

    A 3rd aspect of Rev.'s beast is that it's a powerful fallen angel (referred to with a Greek masculine-pronoun "he" in Rev. 17:11) who's now literally in the bottomless pit and will literally ascend from it during the coming tribulation to spiritually empower the AC's empire (Rev. 17:8-11). This fallen-angel aspect of the beast could be the angelic prince whom Satan had assigned to spiritually empower the ancient empire of Babylon, just as Satan had assigned other fallen angelic princes to spiritually empower the subsequent ancient empires of Persia and Greece (Dan. 10:13,20). When the ancient empire of Babylon was defeated, the fallen angelic prince empowering it could have been cast into the bottomless pit. This same fallen angel could be released to empower a revival of the empire of Babylon during the AC's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Rev. 13:5-18).

    The release of the powerful fallen angelic prince of Babylon from the bottomless pit could occur at the same time as the unbinding of 4 other powerful fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates river (Rev. 9:14b), who could have been bound there at the fall of the ancient empire of Babylon. When the 4 angels are released at 1 point during the coming tribulation, they will cause an army of 200,000,000 weird horse-like beings to kill 1/3 of mankind (Rev. 9:15-19). This could be done in order to make mankind completely desperate before its complete takeover by Satan and the AC mid-tribulation, when Satan himself will be cast down from heaven (Rev. 12:7-13:18).
  8. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9) isn't the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), but the one who will empower the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:9) and who will be worshiped along with the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4). The Antichrist will be cast into the lake of fire over 1,000 years before Satan is cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20-20:10). The Antichrist and Satan are shown to be separate persons also in Revelation 16:13.

    But Satan could spiritually enter into the man who is the Antichrist, just as Satan spiritually entered into Judas (Luke 22:3).

    If Ezekiel 28:2 has application to future events, because of its similarity to the unfulfilled 2 Thessalonians 2:4, then the prince of Tyre could be the future human ruler commonly called the Antichrist (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5-8). If that's the case, then the king of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:12) could be Lucifer/Satan (the dragon), who will empower the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:9). Lucifer, before his fall and the fall of man, could have been placed as a covering cherub over Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-15).

    There's a curious correlation between the prince and the king of Tyre on the one hand (Ezekiel 28), and the use of the name Hiram in the mystical teachings of a worldwide secret society which teaches Gnostic Luciferianism at its highest degree of initiation. For Hiram was the name of the human king of Tyre at the time of the building of King Solomon's temple (1 Kings 5). Also, Hiram was the name of another person from Tyre, the human master workman who helped Solomon build the temple (1 Kings 7:13-14). If the king and the prince of Tyre addressed in Ezekiel 28 are Lucifer and the Antichrist, then the name Hiram would be a perfect code name (not the actual name) for both of them, a name by which their identity within the Gnostic Luciferian teachings of the worldwide secret society could be kept secret from all but its highest-level initiates. Just as the human workman named Hiram built a temple to God in which all the world was to worship (1 Kings 8:41-43), so the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon) (Revelation 13:4), when the Antichrist gains power over the earth (Revelation 13:7).

    The Antichrist's future Luciferian rule over the earth could be pictured by the most common, publicly known symbol for the worldwide secret society, in which a drafting/measuring compass, an instrument shaped like the two legs of an "A" (as in "Antichrist"), is sometimes shown standing atop a globe of the earth. And beneath, as in support of the "A" is a drafting/measuring square, an instrument shaped like an "L" (as in "Lucifer"). Also, found within the "L" is the letter "G", which could ultimately stand for the (false) "Gnosis" (knowledge) of Gnosticism (cf. the original Greek of 1 Timothy 6:20b), which the secret society (mistakenly) thinks can be found in Lucifer. The Antichrist will teach the ancient Gnostic lie that YHWH is evil (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), and the ancient Gnostic lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (1 John 4:3). The Antichrist will also deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22).
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture view

    Based up the scripture of Jesus saying to Nicodemus, another they would accept, while rejecting him. Above Jesus's head on the cross was a plaque - "King of the Jews". The Antichrist has to be qualified to be the anointed King of Israel - which means he has to be a Jew.

    Do you think it is just coincidence that the Jews have been looking for their messiah for the past 2000 years, someone other than Jesus?

    Before talking about "anti" Christ, you need to get a handle on "Christ", what that means in the different contexts. It was not until after the resurrection and Luke 24:44-47, that Christ became equated with meaning Savior from our sins. Before then, Christ was christos, Greek for messiah, and messiah meaning "anointed", not Savior. Anointeds were kings and priests - that's the context of messiah in the old testament. The Antichrist has to be single person who is to be a false fulfillment of the Jews' expectation of the great King of Israel - who the disciples had belief of it being Jesus, until he was crucified, dashing their hope at the time. It wasn't until after the resurrection and Jesus opening their understanding that they grasped the big picture.

    So the Antichrist, means not only opposed to, but also in lieu of. Which in the second stage of his career the Antichrist will be perceived by the Jews as their King Messiah - King of Israel, in lieu of the true King of Israel who they rejected.

    Again, you have to put the meaning of the word Christ in context, depending upon its application. The Antichrist will be a false King Messiah, as Jesus prophesied to Nicodemus the Jews was accept instead of him. Anti - in the second stage of the Antichrist's career simply means someone "in lieu of" Jesus that the Jews will accept as their King Messiah.

    In the the third and fourth stages of his career, Anti is going to mean "opposed to". Now whether the Antichrist offers a false guarantee of eternal life during his fourth stage - which personifying himself as being a Savior from death is likely imo.

    Your rationale eludes me. antichrists - little a - deny that Jesus came in the flesh in regards to his resurrection. They denied that, although they were once among the congregation of believers, that Jesus was bodily resurrected (in the flesh). Thus denying the blessed hope that we have in Christ Jesus for the redemption of our bodies as well.

    Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    You have the Antichrist as someone separate from a false Jewish messiah. The Antichrist will be the false Jewish messiah.

    Your argument would be better off - that you believe the Prince who shall come, the beast of Revelation, the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8, as being a gentile - not labeling him as the Antichrist, but as an evil end times person of unequaled persona.

    You are creating confusing calling him the Antichrist.

    Again, in your theory, you create confusion by calling said person the Antichrist. You should pick something else, the beast for example.

    Shorten your posts and the copy and pastes.

    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  10. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    If you're thinking of John 5:43, how was that addressed to Nicodemus, and how does it require the Antichrist (the AC) will be accepted by the Jews (or anyone else) as the Messiah/Christ (King of Israel), instead of someone else (i.e. 1st, a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish Messiah, and then, ultimately, Satan himself: see post #67)?

    Based on what scripture?

    Based on what scripture? "Anti"-Christ doesn't have to mean "in lieu of", but can simply mean "opposed to".

    Not only re: his resurrection, but also altogether (i.e. the Gnostic denial that Christ himself ever became flesh).

    He won't, but he'll "cut" a 7-year treaty/covenant/league with a false, ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" (Dan. 9:26a, 9:27a) after he defeats him (Dan. 11:22-23a).

    The little horn of Daniel 7 could be the little country the AC will come from (e.g. Lebanon), instead of the AC himself (see the "Dan. 7" part of post

    Also, the AC could indeed be mostly Gentile (i.e. mostly Arab) (see post #62).

    The AC is the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who'll come (Rev. 13:18) & bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) & himself (Rev. 13:4,8, 12:9). He'll rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Rev. 13:5-10, Dan. 7:25, 12:7) & will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Rev. 19:20, 16:13) who by amazing Luciferian/Satanic miracles (cf. 2 Thes. 2:9), such as calling fire down from heaven (Rev. 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the AC (Rev. 13:15) & receiving a mark of the AC's name or gematrial name-number on their right hands or foreheads (Rev. 13:16-18). The AC & his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:20).
  11. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    Any mistaken teaching which claims the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in the future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking he isn't the Antichrist.

    Nero didn't fulfill the detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) in Rev. 13:4-18, 16:2-16, 19:19-21. Also, Nero didn't fulfill other detailed Antichrist scriptures (e.g. 2 Thes. 2:3-9, Dan. 11:31,36, Mt. 24:15). And John didn't see the detailed prophecies of Rev. until decades after the time of Nero. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) said: "We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him [John] who beheld the apocalyptic vision [Rev.]. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign" (Against Heresies 5:30:3c). The end of Domitian's reign was 96 AD. Nero's reign was 54-68 AD. The detailed prophecies regarding the Antichrist haven't yet been fulfilled.

    Also, is there an ancient historical source which shows how "Nero Caesar" was usually transliterated into Hebrew letters at the time Rev. was written, so we can confirm whether or not the usual Hebrew transliteration of "Nero Caesar" added up to 666 in Hebrew gematria, instead of an intentionally-altered Hebrew spelling (e.g. why was an "n" added after "Nero", to make "Neron"; and why was the "ae" of "Caesar" skipped to make "Csar", when, for example, the "ae" in "Israel" gets at least an "aleph" in Hebrew), intentionally altered into a weird, never-actually-used spelling that adds up to 666 (just as people today could intentionally mis-transliterate into Hebrew the name of someone living today so that the mistransliterated name adds up to 666 in Hebrew gematria)? Also, just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. So even if it could be proven that the usual Hebrew spelling of "Nero Caesar" added up to 666, or that the usual spelling of the name of someone living today adds up to 666, this doesn't require that that person is the Antichrist.

    Also, should we even assume that the name of the Antichrist has to be transliterated into Hebrew in order for it to add up to 666? For Rev. was originally addressed to Greek-speaking Gentile churches in the Roman province of "Asia" (Rev. 1:11), not to Hebrew-speaking Jewish churches in Judaea. And John the apostle used 3 letters from the ancient Greek alphabet to express the number 666 in Rev. 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus), not any letters from the Hebrew alphabet. (But this doesn't require that the name of the Antichrist has to be transliterated into ancient Greek in order for it to add up to 666, because John used the ancient Greek alphabet only because it was the most common one used by the believers he was addressing at the time Rev. was written.) Also, even when "Nero Caesar" (instead of "Neron Csar") is transliterated into Hebrew, it doesn't have to result in the name adding up to 666, but can instead add up to 617:

    N -- Nun = 50 (cf. the "Ne" in "Nebo" in the Hebrew of Num. 32:3: Nun for the "N" and nothing for the "e")
    E /
    R -- Reysh = 200
    O -- Vav = 6 (cf. the "o" in "Nebo" in the Hebrew of Num. 32:3 being the letter Vav)

    C -- Qowph = 100 (cf. "Kareah" in the Hebrew of Jer. 40:8, and "Caesar" being "Kaisar" in the Greek of Mt. 22:17)
    A -- Aleph = 1 (cf. the "ae" in "Israel" in the Hebrew of Gen. 32:28: Aleph for the "a" and nothing for the "e")
    E /
    S -- Samek = 60 (cf. the "sar" in "Ellasar" in the Hebrew of Gen. 14:1: Samek for the "s" and nothing for the "a")
    A /
    R -- Reysh = 200

    Total = 617