Vulgate and Septuagint.

[Colabomb]

Could someone who is familiar with the differences between the vulgate and the Septuagint, help me out in understanding some of the differences in them?

The Duay Rheims version (based on the Vulgate) of Sirach Chapter 17 reads;

Sir 17:1-31 God created man of the earth, and made him after his own image. (2) And he turned him into it again, and clothed him with strength according to himself. (3) He gave him the number of his days and time, and gave him power over all things that are upon the earth. (4) He put the fear of him upon all flesh, and he had dominion over beasts and fowls. (5) He created of him a helpmate like to himself, he gave them counsel, and a tongue, and eyes, and ears, and a heart to devise: and he filled them with the knowledge of understanding. (6) He created in them the science of the spirit, he fired their heart with wisdom, and shewed them both good and evil. (7) He set his eye upon their hearts to shew them the greatness of his works: (8) That they might praise the name which he hath sanctified: and glory in his wondrous act that they might declare the glorious things of his works. (9) Moreover he gave them instructions, and the law of life for an inheritance. (10) He made an everlasting covenant with them, and he shewed them his justice and judgments. (11) And their eye saw the majesty of his glory, and their ears heard his glorious voice, and he said to them: Beware of all iniquity. (12) And he gave to every one of them commandment concerning his neighbour. (13) Their ways are always before him, they are not hidden from his eyes. (14) Over every nation he set a ruler. (15) And Israel was made the manifest portion of God. (16) And all their works are as the sun in the sight of God: and his eyes are continually upon their ways. (17) Their covenants were not hid by their iniquity, and all their iniquities are in the sight of God. (18) The alms of a man is as a signet with him, and shall preserve the grace of a man as the apple of the eye: (19) And afterward he shall rise up, and shall render them their reward, to every one upon their own head, and shall turn them down into the bowels of the earth. (20) But to the penitent he hath given the way of justice, and he hath strengthened them that were fainting in patience, and hath appointed to them the lot of truth. (21) Turn to the Lord, and forsake thy sins: (22) Make thy prayer before the face of the Lord, and offend less. (23) Return to the Lord, and turn away from thy injustice, and greatly hate abomination. (24) And know the justices and judgments of God, and stand firm in the lot set before thee, and in prayer to the most high God. (25) Go to the side of the holy age, with them that live and give praise to God. (26) Tarry not in the error of the ungodly, give glory before death. Praise perisheth from the dead as nothing. (27) Give thanks whilst thou art living, whilst thou art alive and in health thou shalt give thanks, and shalt praise God, and shalt glory in his mercies. (28) How great is the mercy of the Lord, and his forgiveness to them that turn to him ! (29) For all things cannot be in men, because the son of man is not immortal, and they are delighted with the vanity of evil. (30) What is brighter than the sun; yet it shall be eclipsed. Or what is more wicked than that which flesh and blood hath invented? and this shall be reproved. (31) He beholdeth the power of the height of heaven: and all men are earth and ashes.

The KJV reads;

Sir 17:1-32 The Lord created man of the earth, and turned him into it again. (2) He gave them few days, and a short time, and power also over the things therein. (3) He endued them with strength by themselves, and made them according to his image, (4) And put the fear of man upon all flesh, and gave him dominion over beasts and fowls. (5) They received the use of the five operations of the Lord, and in the sixth place he imparted them understanding, and in the seventh speech, an interpreter of the cogitations thereof. (6) Counsel, and a tongue, and eyes, ears, and a heart, gave he them to understand. (7) Withal he filled them with the knowledge of understanding, and shewed them good and evil. (8) He set his eye upon their hearts, that he might shew them the greatness of his works. (9) He gave them to glory in his marvellous acts for ever, that they might declare his works with understanding. (10) And the elect shall praise his holy name. (11) Beside this he gave them knowledge, and the law of life for an heritage. (12) He made an everlasting covenant with them, and shewed them his judgments. (13) Their eyes saw the majesty of his glory, and their ears heard his glorious voice. (14) And he said unto them, Beware of all unrighteousness; and he gave every man commandment concerning his neighbour. (15) Their ways are ever before him, and shall not be hid from his eyes. (16) Every man from his youth is given to evil; neither could they make to themselves fleshy hearts for stony. (17) For in the division of the nations of the whole earth he set a ruler over every people; but Israel is the Lord's portion: (18) Whom, being his firstborn, he nourisheth with discipline, and giving him the light of his love doth not forsake him. (19) Therefore all their works are as the sun before him, and his eyes are continually upon their ways. (20) None of their unrighteous deeds are hid from him, but all their sins are before the Lord (21) But the Lord being gracious and knowing his workmanship, neither left nor forsook them, but spared them. (22) The alms of a man is as a signet with him, and he will keep the good deeds of man as the apple of the eye, and give repentance to his sons and daughters. (23) Afterwards he will rise up and reward them, and render their recompence upon their heads. (24) But unto them that repent, he granted them return, and comforted those that failed in patience. (25) Return unto the Lord, and forsake thy sins, make thy prayer before his face, and offend less. (26) Turn again to the most High, and turn away from iniquity: for he will lead thee out of darkness into the light of health, and hate thou abomination vehemently. (27) Who shall praise the most High in the grave, instead of them which live and give thanks? (28) Thanksgiving perisheth from the dead, as from one that is not: the living and sound in heart shall praise the Lord. (29) How great is the lovingkindness of the Lord our God, and his compassion unto such as turn unto him in holiness! (30) For all things cannot be in men, because the son of man is not immortal. (31) What is brighter than the sun? yet the light thereof faileth; and flesh and blood will imagine evil. (32) He vieweth the power of the height of heaven; and all men are but earth and ashes.

 

[eoe]

The Vulgate is the Latin Bible. The Septuagint is the original Old Testament in Greek. In this case you are looking at the Vulgate vs the Masoretic text (KJV)- not the Septuagint.

Here is the Septuagint reading:

17:1 The Lord created man of the earth, and turned him into it again. 2 He gave them few days, and a short time, and power also over the things therein. 3 He endued them with strength by themselves, and made them according to his image, 4 And put the fear of man upon all flesh, and gave him dominion over beasts and fowls. 5 They received the use of the five operations of the Lord, and in the sixth place he imparted them understanding, and in the seventh speech, an interpreter of the cogitations thereof. 6 Counsel, and a tongue, and eyes, ears, and a heart, gave he them to understand. 7 Withal he filled them with the knowledge of understanding, and shewed them good and evil. 8 He set his eye upon their hearts, that he might shew them the greatness of his works. 9 He gave them to glory in his marvellous acts for ever, that they might declare his works with understanding. 10 And the elect shall praise his holy name.
11 Beside this he gave them knowledge, and the law of life for an heritage. 12 He made an everlasting covenant with them, and shewed them his judgments. 13 Their eyes saw the majesty of his glory, and their ears heard his glorious voice. 14 And he said unto them, Beware of all unrighteousness; and he gave every man commandment concerning his neighbour. 15 Their ways are ever before him, and shall not be hid from his eyes. 16 Every man from his youth is given to evil; neither could they make to themselves fleshy hearts for stony. 17 For in the division of the nations of the whole earth he set a ruler over every people; but Israel is the Lord’s portion: 18 Whom, being his firstborn, he nourisheth with discipline, and giving him the light of his love doth not forsake him. 19 Therefore all their works are as the sun before him, and his eyes are continually upon their ways. 20 None of their unrighteous deeds are hid from him, but all their sins are before the Lord 21 But the Lord being gracious and knowing his workmanship, neither left nor forsook them, but spared them.
22 The alms of a man is as a signet with him, and he will keep the good deeds of man as the apple of the eye, and give repentance to his sons and daughters. 23 Afterwards he will rise up and reward them, and render their recompence upon their heads. 24 But unto them that repent, he granted them return, and comforted those that failed in patience.
25 Return unto the Lord, and forsake thy sins, make thy prayer before his face, and offend less. 26 Turn again to the most High, and turn away from iniquity: for he will lead thee out of darkness into the light of health, and hate thou abomination vehemently. 27 Who shall praise the most High in the grave, instead of them which live and give thanks? 28 Thanksgiving perisheth from the dead, as from one that is not: the living and sound in heart shall praise the Lord. 29 How great is the lovingkindness of the Lord our God, and his compassion unto such as turn unto him in holiness! 30 For all things cannot be in men, because the son of man is not immortal.
31 What is brighter than the sun? yet the light thereof faileth; and flesh and blood will imagine evil. 32 He vieweth the power of the height of heaven; and all men are but earth and ashes.

 

[Colabomb]

The Vulgate is the Latin Bible. The Septuagint is the original Old Testament in Greek. In this case you are looking at the Vulgate vs the Masoretic text (KJV)- not the Septuagint.

Just fyi....

The KJV used something other than the Masoretic for its Deuterocanon, as the Masoretic does not include them. I assumed since the two were different, and I know that the Duay Rheims uses the Vulgate, that the KJV used the LXX.

I don't know of any other source for the Deuterocanon.

 

[eoe]

Hrm... I dunno.

Here is a link to the septuagint version that I listed above.

Sorry bro, wish I could be more help.

 

[Alchemist]

Hi Colabomb,

The Vulgate was a Latin translation of the Septuagint. As such, there is not too much difference between them, except that created by the translation from the Greek of the Septuagint to the Latin of the Vulgate. I am not sure what text was used for the "deuterocanonical" books of the KJV, however, so I can't comment on this.

What I will say is that the Masoretic text, used for the "non-deuterocanonical" books of the Old Testament in the King James, differs substantially from the Septuagint. As such, Orthodox tend to prefer the Doauy-Rheims (translated through Latin from the Septuagint) to the KJV, as far as I have seen. The New Testament of the KJV, however, being translated from the Textus Receptus, is generally accepted by Orthodox.