Voting and Christians

[OzSpen]

It only becomes a matter of conscience when one believes it violates a mandate of Scripture, or church teaching. Since people/churches interpret Scripture differently folks are going to come to different conclusions on such matters.

Note I did not refer to the Australian gov't as "dictator-run", only that compulsory voting in my limited experience was only known in 3d world dictatorship nations, particularly Africa and the Middle East.

This is where you are wrong in your understanding of compulsory voting. There has been much discussion in Australia whether we should go back to non-compulsory voting.

According to this article by a federal politician in Australia, Julie Bishop,

What does Australia have in common with Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Cyprus, Ecuador, Fiji and Greece? How about Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Mexico, Nauru, Peru, Singapore, Turkey and Uruguay? (see ‘Vote – or Else’)

Oz

 

[cow451]

Why? Because they said who they support and who they would like us to vote for?

We aren't required to vote for who they're supporting, we're free to vote for whomever or not at all.

The church is benefitting from tax exemption. They should not be engaging in such partisan activities. I have no respect for clergy that abuse their positions of authority.

 

[Boidae]

The church is benefitting from tax exemption. They should not be engaging in such partisan activities. I have no respect for clergy that abuse their positions of authority.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I do not share it.

I see nothing wrong with a church endorsing a candidate.

 

[MrJim]

You are speaking as an American. The world is bigger than the USA.

Here in Australia, voting at local, State and Federal elections is compulsory, by legislation of the government. Therefore, to be an obedient Christian, I am to follow the teaching of Romans 13:1-7,

If I do not vote, I am fined. If I do not like any of the candidates, I have to vote, but nobody is to know if I give an informal vote. I know of some folks Down Under who on rare occasions (because they don't approve of any of the candidates) scribble across the ballot.

Sincerely, Oz

This is where you are wrong in your understanding of compulsory voting. There has been much discussion in Australia whether we should go back to non-compulsory voting.

According to this article by a federal politician in Australia, Julie Bishop,


Oz

This is interesting; how much is the fine and are there any conscientious objectors that refuse and pay it? I know there are some anabaptist / mennonite folks down there and the conservatives among them would generally abstain from the process due to religious beliefs.

 

[cow451]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I do not share it.

I see nothing wrong with a church endorsing a candidate.

They also put their tax exempt status at risk. I have yet to meet a congregation willing to pay taxes like any other business.

 

[OzSpen]

This is interesting; how much is the fine and are there any conscientious objectors that refuse and pay it? I know there are some anabaptist / mennonite folks down there and the conservatives among them would generally abstain from the process due to religious beliefs.

Mr Jim,

The Australian Electoral Commission on its website has an article, 'Voting within Australia - frequently asked questions'. In it, it states:

What happens if I do not vote?

Initially the Australian Electoral Commission will write to all apparent non-voters requesting that they either provide a reason for their failure to vote or pay a $20 penalty.
If, within 21 days, the apparent non-voter fails to reply, cannot provide a valid and sufficient reason or declines to pay the penalty, then prosecution proceedings may be instigated. If the matter is dealt with in court and the person is found guilty, he or she may be fined up to $50 plus court costs.

The Australian parliament voted to make voting compulsory in 1924. However, there have been many ordinary people and politicians who have opposed such. I am one who opposes compulsory voting, but I will always choose to vote. I see it as my responsibility as a responsible Christian. If there is no candidate in my electorate who I support, I'll vote informally.

As for conscientious objectors to compulsory voting, I'm aware of one of my wife's friends who belonged to a certain religious sect and they chose to pay the fine.

You may be interested in, "Ken Mayer: An American perspective on compulsory voting", delivered at the Australian National University in May 2012. A summary of this article states:

Ken Mayer: An American perspective on compulsory voting

• Professor Ken Mayer delivered this public lecture on the 24 May 2012 at The Australian National University entitled: An American perspective on compulsory voting.
  
  Low levels of voter turnout have been a significant feature of American elections over the last fifty years. In this lecture Professor Mayer explores the high costs of low turnout and the damage it does to the quality of representative democracy in the US. He analyses the pros and cons of the Australian compulsory voting model as a remedy for America's problems in the context of the growing interest amongst some American political scientists in the idea of compulsory voting. By exploring the philosophical, practical, and legal objections, Professor Mayer attempted to explain why there is no compulsory voting in the United States and why it is unlikely that there will ever be.
  
  Professor Mayer's teaching and research interests are in American government and institutions (especially Congress and the Presidency) and campaign finance. He is the author of With the Stroke of a Pen: Executive Orders and Presidential Power (Princeton University Press, 2001), The Political Economy of Defense Contracting (Yale University Press, 1991), and The Dysfunctional Congress? The Individual Roots of an Institutional Dilemma (Westview Press, 1999, with David T. Canon). His work has appeared in the American Journal of Political Science, Election Law Journal, the Journal of Politics, Legislative Studies Quarterly, Public Administration Review, PS: Political Science and Politics, Regulation, and the UCLA Pacific Basin Law Journal. He served on the editorial board of the American Political Science Review and a number of other journals. His current research focuses on election administration in the United States, and the effectiveness of recent state-level campaign finance reforms. Professor Mayer was the inaugural Fulbright-ANU Distinguished Chair in American Political Science at the Australian National University in 2006.

Oz

 

[MrJim]

Mr Jim,

The Australian Electoral Commission on its website has an article, 'Voting within Australia - frequently asked questions'. In it, it states:
The Australian parliament voted to make voting compulsory in 1924. However, there have been many ordinary people and politicians who have opposed such. I am one who opposes compulsory voting, but I will always choose to vote. I see it as my responsibility as a responsible Christian. If there is no candidate in my electorate who I support, I'll vote informally.

As for conscientious objectors to compulsory voting, I'm aware of one of my wife's friends who belonged to a certain religious sect and they chose to pay the fine.

You may be interested in, "Ken Mayer: An American perspective on compulsory voting", delivered at the Australian National University in May 2012. A summary of this article states:


Oz

This is fascinating and I had no idea, thanks! For the record outside of the US Australia is number 2 in foreign countries where I would like to visit or even live (just behind Ireland)

 

[OzSpen]

This is fascinating and I had no idea, thanks! For the record outside of the US Australia is number 2 in foreign countries where I would like to visit or even live (just behind Ireland)

If you ever come Down Under and are in the Brisbane area, why don't we arrange a get-together.

I don't expect that we will be visiting Pennsylvania in a long while. We were there in 1976 in the Amish country. I obtained my MA degree from Ashland Theological Seminary, Ashland OH, which is an Old Order Amish community. I'm not Amish.

In Christ, Oz

 

[MrJim]

If you ever come Down Under and are in the Brisbane area, why don't we arrange a get-together.

I don't expect that we will be visiting Pennsylvania in a long while. We were there in 1976 in the Amish country. I obtained my MA degree from Ashland Theological Seminary, Ashland OH, which is an Old Order Amish community. I'm not Amish.

In Christ, Oz

Sounds like a deal

 

[OzSpen]

This is fascinating and I had no idea, thanks! For the record outside of the US Australia is number 2 in foreign countries where I would like to visit or even live (just behind Ireland)

Mr Jim,

Have you seen this article in USA Today? Is this a reasonably accurate estimate? 'Why 90 million Americans will not vote in November'.

What is the climate in USA churches regarding voting? I'm particularly interested in knowing how evangelicals respond to Obama and Romney. How are they planning to vote? Or is voting not in the picture?

I wonder how many evangelicals make up these 90 million people.

Oz

 

[MrJim]

Mr Jim,

Have you seen this article in USA Today? Is this a reasonably accurate estimate? 'Why 90 million Americans will not vote in November'.

What is the climate in USA churches regarding voting? I'm particularly interested in knowing how evangelicals respond to Obama and Romney. How are they planning to vote? Or is voting not in the picture?

I wonder how many evangelicals make up these 90 million people.

Oz

Sounds a out right; there are a lot of jaded people here..folks of all stripes that have given up on the system and basically just work to get through the day and care for their families not believing anything the gov't has to say. Many insulate themselves with distractions to drown out the noise of Washington. There is no real alternatives...each candidate becomes twice the child of hell as the predecessor and many of those that vote are basically voting against someone or something more than voting for someone or something. It can be depressing if thought about long enough.

And to quote that famous sociologist Jim Goad:

"Every four years we're given a choice between a stale biscuit and a piece of burnt toast"

 

[OzSpen]

Sounds a out right; there are a lot of jaded people here..folks of all stripes that have given up on the system and basically just work to get through the day and care for their families not believing anything the gov't has to say. Many insulate themselves with distractions to drown out the noise of Washington. There is no real alternatives...each candidate becomes twice the child of hell as the predecessor and many of those that vote are basically voting against someone or something more than voting for someone or something. It can be depressing if thought about long enough.

And to quote that famous sociologist Jim Goad:

"Every four years we're given a choice between a stale biscuit and a piece of burnt toast"

My, oh my, that is cynicism with a capital C.

I take a different perspective. My Federal and State MPs and my local council councillor are there to represent me. If I need representation on a matter, I go to my MP or councillor.

This week I went to see my Dr. and when I paid for the consultation, the Dr was unable to be the Australian Medicare rebate to place directly in my bank account because I paid with a credit card. I needed to pay with a debit card to get that refund directly into my bank account. So I've contacted the Federal Minister of Human Services and my local Federal MP to try to get action so that my Medicare refund can be paid directly onto my credit card.

The federal govt is trying to make a paperless trail with Medicare reimbursements but this failure to do so with a credit card needs to be brought to my MPs and the government's attention.

You need to understand that our Medicare system is different from Medicare in your country. Medicare is our government funded medical service. We can get free hospital through Medicare provision. When we go to our regular Dr, we get a refund of about $30 from Medicare and it is this $30 amount that I want placed on my credit card, rather than having to go to a Medicare agency to get a cash refund.

I use my MPs to act on my behalf. That's why I consider it a privilege to vote in a democracy.

Oz

 

[98cwitr]

Sounds a out right; there are a lot of jaded people here..folks of all stripes that have given up on the system and basically just work to get through the day and care for their families not believing anything the gov't has to say. Many insulate themselves with distractions to drown out the noise of Washington. There is no real alternatives...each candidate becomes twice the child of hell as the predecessor and many of those that vote are basically voting against someone or something more than voting for someone or something. It can be depressing if thought about long enough.

And to quote that famous sociologist Jim Goad:

"Every four years we're given a choice between a stale biscuit and a piece of burnt toast"

wow...I can identify with this!