Vision, tagline, SoF, and revised promotion rule (last post has link to Wiki)

[Crazy Liz]

"existed before all time begotten of God the Father"

Please use another word besides existed, it is problematic. The word is not used anywhere in the John Chapter 1, which it is claimed to be cited from.

Existence is a word given to things that are created. Christ is begotten of the Father, who does not 'exist', but makes things exist.

I agree with you about the problems with the word "exist." (It's nice to see someone else has read Wittgenstein. ) However, I'm willing to pretend the CF creed was translated from some ancient language, and had to make a less-than-perfect translational choice, so that the meaning of the word "exist" is still open for discussion, and the mods in GA and GT are not going to use this new creed to censor posts pointing out the difficulties inherent in the word.

Creeds have the purpose of excluding and dividing, which makes me uncomfortable, but excluding and dividing through the use of creeds is something Christians have been doing since the time of Constantine, so it's hard to complain that it is a new innovation. This one appears to be an effort to reduce the number of exclusions and divisions, so it is a positive step for those not willing to go so far as the "no creed but Christ" folks.

 

[drstevej]

Creeds have the purpose of excluding and dividing,

And rightly so.

"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. Jn 4:23

Jesus made divisions,

"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers." Jn 4:24

Truth matters.

CLIPPY

 

[Criada]

I think this is good... short, clear and covers the essentials.
Thank you to those involved in producing it!

 

[Angel4Truth]

Members and staff,

Lee has set out his vision for CF. The new site motto will be: "Where Two or Three are Gathered." The vision for CF will be heavily focused on inreach, uplifting and encouraging Christians in faith, with slight emphasis on outreach.

Some of the keywords Lee used to describe his vision for CF:

- friendly
- Christian love
- kindness
- peace
- encouragement
- hope
- support
- PRAYER


In addition, the following will replace the Nicene Creed as Christian Forums' Statement of Faith. This was drawn up as a collaborative effort between senior staff, with the intent of having a clear, concise, and easy to understand statement of faith:

CF statement of faith: This is the basis of which our non-promotion rule is based upon, and is the baseline for forum-specific guidelines. An individual forum can use the Nicene Creed without asterisks, a confession of faith, or other statements, provided such is an expansion of the CF statement of faith. However, forum-specific guidelines must not conflict with the CF Statement of Faith.

CF supports the following as a statement of faith

We worship one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Isaiah 44:6-8; Exodus 3:15). God is three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who share one essence--the Trinity (John 6:27; John 1:1, 14; Romans 8:9; Hebrews 1:2-3).

Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ, the incarnate second person of the Holy Trinity, fully God and fully man (John 1:1, 14), was conceived in time by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35) and existed before all time begotten of God the Father (John 1: 2; John 1: 18). He was crucified for our sins, died, was buried, resurrected on the third day (1 Corinthians 15: 3-4) and is seated at the right hand of the Father (Mark 16: 19). Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah (John 1:49; Matthew 16:16). His coming was foretold by the prophets of the Old Testament (Acts 3:18-23). He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead (Acts 10: 42) and His Kingdom will have no end (2 Peter 1: 11).

With the new statement of faith, the promotion rule will be changed to the following:

You will not promote any faith, belief, or religion other than Christianity. For the purpose of these rules, Christianity is defined by Christian Forums' Statement of Faith.

I think this is wonderful but will it atually be enforced? The promotion issue isnt being enforced now : God is Imaginary & You Can Now Prove it To Yourself (

1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

Take a look at how long thats been sitting there

 

[pete56]

OK, so now we have guidelines and a statement of faith and rules to say what is promoting other faiths.

We also have a statement saying we will focus on inreach and unity and Christian fellowship.

All of this is good ( some might say very good), but I still do not see any where what is to be done about the staff members that are not professing Christians (if there are any still here that is). Neither has any thing been said about the qualifying faith requirements for any new members of staff that I am aware of.

Lets not all get lost in the details of different creeds and lose sight of the fact that at least some of the staff do not profess even the most basic of Christian beliefs, so ho exactly can e expect them to administer this new set of rules properly?

Pete

 

[Angel4Truth]

And many arent enforcing the existing guidelines and are removing posts without notification also that speak out against promotion of ideals other than christian ideals.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I think this is wonderful but will it atually be enforced? The promotion issue isnt being enforced now : God is Imaginary & You Can Now Prove it To Yourself (

1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

Take a look at how long thats been sitting there

If the rule is interpreted this way, the whole General Apologetics forum will have to go because a Christian can't intelligently discuss apologetics issues with a non-Christian where non-Christians are not able to state their objections from their own POV.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I did not see a request for suggested edits. This is not a WIKI.

Did you see a request in my post for your commentary? No.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I agree with you about the problems with the word "exist." (It's nice to see someone else has read Wittgenstein. ) However, I'm willing to pretend the CF creed was translated from some ancient language, and had to make a less-than-perfect translational choice, so that the meaning of the word "exist" is still open for discussion, and the mods in GA and GT are not going to use this new creed to censor posts pointing out the difficulties inherent in the word.

The problem I have is that if anyone wants to play amateur theologian to the point of writing out a Statement of Faith, they at least ought to have the knowledge sufficient to realize the problem with using "exist" in connection with God.

This is an issue if the SoF is to be enforced by people (staff) who aren't theologians or philosophers (and i don't expect them to be). Especially so, as no debating is to occur in reports anyways. I really don't want my icon or anyone elses' removed or be denied access to forums because a 16 year old doesn't understand metaphysics.

 

[CaDan]

If anyone is willing to start up a serious discussion of whether the term "to exist" applies to God in Theologyland, I will exert all my influence to keep it open.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

If anyone is willing to start up a serious discussion of whether the term "to exist" applies to God in Theologyland, I will exert all my influence to keep it open.

Whether it applies or not isn't so much what I'm after. I'd just like the issue to be open for theological discussion.

The SoF makes denying that particular attribute of God a heresy.

 

[Criada]

Do we have a timestamp issue again, or was SAs last post prophetic?
:confused?

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Houston- we have a problem.

 

[Angeldove97]

Staff knows that we're having timestamp issues again--- I just bugged Ron about it.

 

[Ramona]

Serious question: what exactly is meant by "Christian love" in the OP?

 

[TomUK]

I've made a few alterations which has simplified and also made it Trinitarian. It follows the structure of the original and where possible i've used language of the original. There's still a mountain of faults here and it's just something i did in five minutes but to my mind closer reflects what a very basic statement of faith needs to be.





We believe in one God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; three divine persons who share one essence--the Trinity.

The Father, the Almighty, is author and sustainer of all creation. The Son, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, God incarnate, fully God and fully man, conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary. He was crucified for our sins, died, was buried, resurrected on the third day and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He shall come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and His Kingdom will have no end. The Holy Spirit is the Lord and giver of life.

 

[Criada]

OK, so now we have guidelines and a statement of faith and rules to say what is promoting other faiths.

We also have a statement saying we will focus on inreach and unity and Christian fellowship.

All of this is good ( some might say very good), but I still do not see any where what is to be done about the staff members that are not professing Christians (if there are any still here that is). Neither has any thing been said about the qualifying faith requirements for any new members of staff that I am aware of.

Lets not all get lost in the details of different creeds and lose sight of the fact that at least some of the staff do not profess even the most basic of Christian beliefs, so ho exactly can e expect them to administer this new set of rules properly?

Pete

The non-Christian staff we have at the moment are extremely competent, and perfectly capable of moderating in accordance with the SoF and the rules.
I have never seen any of them promoting any other faith on this site, so I am not quite sure what your question here is?

 

[Glass*Soul]

Serious question... what, exactly, is meant by "Christian love" in the OP?

A good quesiton HoD (and well worth repeating, I think, five times ).

It makes sense, from a purely natural standpoint, for one to feel an obligation toward one's family and close-knit tribe or community. To do so helps preserve these institutions that do such a fine job of insuring our ability to survive and reproduce. Yet the message of Christ is that our neighbors are not only those who are close by and with whom we have a stake. It is those whose existence affords us no advantage whatsoever. Our natural selves would tell us that this is a waste of scarce resources and unwise. What's more, (and this is a truly dangerous idea) Christ taught us to love our enemies and to pray for those who spitefully use us.

It is an amazingly good apologetic, from the viewpoint of this skeptic.

So, Christian love is expressed when we engage those who do not belong to our families or closeknit group with generosity and respect, and most especially when we similarly engage those whom we regard as our enemies and those who make spiteful use of us.


Edit: May I add that I have no idea if this is what is meant by the OP, nor do I entertain any illusions that my opinion on the matter is of any consequence to this board.

 

[snoochface]

Look, if they didn't want discussion of the announcement, they should have closed the thread as soon as it was posted.

The fact that it is an open thread invites discussion. What is the point of arguing over whether or not there should be discussion? If they don't want our input (which, really, they don't, but they seem to want to give us the illusion of wanting our input) they can close the thread. Sooper mod powerz and all that.

 

[Tonks]

If anyone is willing to start up a serious discussion of whether the term "to exist" applies to God in Theologyland, I will exert all my influence to keep it open.

That term was my insertion...though I worded it incorrectly. I was concerned with Christ's eternal pre-existence.

The point was lost in the discussion due to the fact that there was a greater debate over 1) whether it was proper to affirm the Virgin Birth and 2) whether the Dread Judgment was a necessary part of any expression of faith. It, frankly, was an after throught and inserted quickly as the discussion also revolved around whether calling Christ "God" would be offensive to some "Christians" - at which point I damned near lost my mind...

The phrase should be changed...but it was ignored in the thrash over other points which occupied much of the thread.