Visciously Anti-Christian friends

[fenderbender]

What you are dealing with here is demonic possession, or at least very strong demonic influence.

In reality, IF you are seriously born again you are covered by the blood of Jesus and can walk in authority over them with nothing to fear. The trouble lies in having enough faith to walk with the authority of the Holy Spirit who will defeat them (not the people, but the spirits in them). From what I've read here, I don't think you have enough faith at this point to be able to stand for very long before they (the evil, not your friends) find a crack in your your armour and bring you down, either by circumstances in your life, or by direct influence on your mind.

YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER ARE IN GRAVE DANGER. Advice - get the heck out of the situation before you and/or your daughter get burned. The spirits in these people are not playing fun little argument games. They are terrified of losing their grip on their hosts. They are very angry at you right now and will do everything they can to destroy you.

Until you have enough faith to walk in victory over them, and completely understand what is happening, you are at risk. Your posts are peppered with lots of comments that suggest that, by your own admission, you don't understand what you are dealing with here.

Continue to pray for their release and continue to grow in your faith, but I would caution agianst in depth study of their beliefs at this point. Right now you need to dig deeper into Christ to learn how to walk in faith and authority. And, you need to back out of the current situation.

 

[fenderbender]

If you are interested, there is a book called "Inside the New Age Nightmare" that is very good at explaining how people get trapped under demonic influence and the consequence of it all. Randall N. Baer, the author, was formerly a top new age leader who converted to Christ. He dove head over heels into all of the areas that you're friends are into, and more.

His testimony could be good learning tool for you, maybe your friends as well.

 

[wonderwaleye]

Dear InnocentOdion


" IF YOU ARE ASHAMED OF ME ON EARTH SO SHALL I BE OF YOU IN THE KNIGDOM OF ALMIGHTY GOD "


There must be NO soft soaping of GOD or GOD'S WORD.


GOD never said we have to make them or trick them into believing. JUST PREACH THE GOSPEL.


If it be their decision to stay lost then I think GOD'S WORD spells it out.


" WE EACH SEEK OUR OWN SALVATION "


It's sad to see them lost especially if it's someone real close for which you have a special love. But we do not have the choice.


IT IS SAD THEY DON'T REMEMBER:

“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components which are: hearing, accepting, and then acting ( COMMITING ) upon that which you have accepted.
X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O ( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

 

[InnocentOdion]

Thank you.
I'm concerned though, because the Satanist & Wiccan, they're having a child, and they said they're going to raise their child the exact opposite of mine, a theistic Satanist or Wiccan gothic baby, why?

"just to spite you".

I'm going to keep them away from my baby - I will take her out the room if they come near here until they get the message after being thrown out by me enough times, that they're not welcome here unless they are less aggressive. It's a shame and it will almost hurt to do that though, because they are still my friends.

I'm praying for my spiritst friend to see sense though. The spiritist, I could work with - but his partner is stopping him from seeing me.

 

[Lumen]

Okay. Two things.

#1: Stop trying to convert them. Throw everything evangelical out the window in regards to them. Just be their friend, live a Godly life, and ask them to respect your beliefs as you respect theirs.

#2: If they keep up with this constant hate of you, throw them out of your life. And tell them why you are not their friend anymore, it is because of their intolerance.

 

[wonderwaleye]

Dear Luman


We are to witness to others but we don't have to be friends with evil. Friends in CHRIST only.


GOD'S WORD is very clear:

" Proverbs 3:7

Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil


Romans
Chapter 12

9 Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good; "


ALWAYS REMEMBER:


“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components which are: hearing, accepting, and then acting ( COMMITING ) upon that which you have accepted.
X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O ( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

 

[Lumen]

If they tolerate him and are not hateful like they've been I see no reason why he shouldn't be their friend. Being a true friend is the ONLY way to truly witness in my opinion.

 

[wonderwaleye]

If they tolerate him and are not hateful like they've been I see no reason why he shouldn't be their friend. Being a true friend is the ONLY way to truly witness in my opinion.

Dear Luman


" 2 Corinthians 7:1

Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. "


" LEAN NOT ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING

Proverbs 3:5

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding "


GOD SPEAKS TO US THROUGH HIS WORD SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components which are: hearing, accepting, and then acting ( COMMITING ) upon that which you have accepted.

X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O
( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

 

[vespasia]

InnocentOdion

Hallo,
When I get some time off this evening I will post you as thought through and prayed about response as I can.
I used to be one of the ones scratching my head at the wierd OTT witnessing behaviour Christians felt the need to engage in once they began to work out what they thought I believed back then.

The situations encountered in the UK are kind of differant to the USA.
Given this is the UK its unusual to find people having real belief in anything!
The pagan scene is far older for a start and there is a greater need for a missional church attitude.

More later.

 

[InnocentOdion]

Okay. Two things.

#1: Stop trying to convert them. Throw everything evangelical out the window in regards to them. Just be their friend, live a Godly life, and ask them to respect your beliefs as you respect theirs.

#2: If they keep up with this constant hate of you, throw them out of your life. And tell them why you are not their friend anymore, it is because of their intolerance.

I'm not evangelical with them. They're evangelical with me.

I don't preach to them unless they start criticising my beliefs, otherwise I'm me, in which case I'm just defending my faith - that or if they ask or are interested in knowing more.

They are the ones giving me lectures on how immoral and wrong my religion is and how I should apologise for something done hundreds of years ago by people whom I've never met, and then saying they want to blow up churches and that we are like the plague and are going to take over so the world should die now. I'm afraid it doesn't go down well with me.

Thanks for the advice though, but as you can see they really are something else to deal with!

 

[vespasia]

I am hazarding a guess that your friends are in a similar age group to yourself.
If they are anything like some of the teenagers I know they will have begun to explore alternative spirituality I guess in their early teens helped by the internet. Some of the sites in googles cache(five years ago and more) did include discussions from many UK groups with regards to the behaviour of the Christian church towards them in the late 1980's and 1990's. Such sites certainly did not mince their words. Think of SAFF, PAN and the more politicaly astute version of this decade; PEBBLE

In the UK to describe oneself as a satanist-luciferian tends to indciate a young person who has not finished an internal philosohical debate. For those of a theistic inclination there are older groups but it is unlikely your friend will have meet their exacting requirements.

Wicca itself does NOT embrace 'black magick' but a young person with a lot of pent up anger may well do so in an effort to gain some power and control following a period of feeling they had none. If they had a real understanding of the unpredictable nature of black magick they would not touch it unless they were stone cold sober and utterly in control of their emotions and had thought long and hard of ALL the potential consequences for themselves. It has a habit of comming back at the person who tries to send it out.
Now God CAN take a persons anger especially if their human father has given them a warped template of the fatherhood of God.

From your posts it reads as if your pagan friend has only looked inwards at her self constructed belief and rejects anything that does not fit with how she thinks the world should be. This is a tad 'fluff bunny' and indicates she is still young and has not considered looking outside of herself for answers.

Your 'animist' friend is using that label as a cover, they are therian and yes there are therian/furry clubs in Britian. He has probably gleaned most of his information on the subject from the www and this is framing his beliefs and subsequent reactions to his envioronment. The therian mindset is similar to the sanguine but one heck of a lot more sociable. Some are drawn to the therian lifestyle as an answer to their mental distress its easier to think your a werewolf/ were (insert choice) than suffering a form of mental anguish. This is going to be the hardest one to reach as you risk this person equating any concept of Christ agianst the therian philosophical outlook; some especially amongst the elders I truly DO believe they are the dogs of heaven sent down in human form. That is one of the saner concepts.

In the UK those who are very seriously studying the occuult tend to be too busy to make a lot of noise about it and debating even atagonistically with a known Christian is considered a distraction from exploration. The only way I would get into an aggresive arguement with a Christian was if they persistantly hounded me the rest of the time they simply did not register as important enough to listen too.

You cannot do anything to convince them to change their minds BUT God can.
How you live your life will speak louder than any mere words. The Christians who quitely lived their faith had more impact on me than those who shouted and raved.
Quitely pray for them when you spend time with God for them to want to begin to seek God as He really is so that one day they may also know Christ.

*Sighs* In the Uk the 'witch hunts' of the late C16-C17th were aimmed at those marginalised by society, it was a time of great political upheavel that resulted in the 'enlightenment' reactions which produced at one end of the scale 'The Lunar society' representing order and The Hellfire Clubs representing a debuached libertine egotistical one. The Church did not produce Matthew Hopkins the choas of the collapsed social infrastructure did.

When faced with someone who is obviously very angry it is normally sensible to acknowledge that anger and remain calm to 'de-esculate' rather than aggrivate. That IS easier said than done though. She sounds very upset that you have gone into a belief system she considers abusive and this reaction may well come from a mix of a human concern for your wellbeing combeined with a real horror your going to become 'one of them'.

Many older UK pagans (thats my age group over 40) have not forgotten the late 1980's and early 1990's in this country that culminated in the La Fontaine Report of 1994. They remain suspicous of and wary of Christians for good reasons. To get such a level of spite you need to have someone who has grown up in and been hurt by someone in or by the church itself. Christ may be perfect but His church is not.

Most occultists like the rest of humanity are inherantly selfish.

Your theistic satanist is not in contact with any of the established UK orders because if he was he would not be running around boasting of wanting to 'blow up all the churches' That is a human reaction meant to annoy you personnally and see how YOU react and not a satanic philsophy. If he had spent any time in serious thought and consideration he would have worked out you cannot blow up the churches only thier buildings.

Sadly not all friendships can survive your making a choice to follow Christ. People being aggresive around a young child regardless of their faith is a good reason to cut a contact. Even older pagans would recommend that course of action.
If your friends are intrested in a real friendship as opposed to what is happening now they may want to contact Pastor Phil at The Gathering in Salem. He runs the Circle and Cross talk list that has helped many pagans who have been concerned when people they love have converted to Christianity. Pastor Phil has an ability to dispel the myths about Christ and help people see that Christ is not like His church, it is the church that needs to be like Christ.

You may also find the information at these websites helpful to you.

www.refugeministries.cc
www.exwitch.org
www.ancientcrossroads.org

 

[Lumen]

I'm not evangelical with them. They're evangelical with me.

I don't preach to them unless they start criticising my beliefs, otherwise I'm me, in which case I'm just defending my faith - that or if they ask or are interested in knowing more.

They are the ones giving me lectures on how immoral and wrong my religion is and how I should apologise for something done hundreds of years ago by people whom I've never met, and then saying they want to blow up churches and that we are like the plague and are going to take over so the world should die now. I'm afraid it doesn't go down well with me.

Thanks for the advice though, but as you can see they really are something else to deal with!

Yeah, my question is why are you friends with them if they are intolerant of your faith?

Try asking them what makes their faith the only right one, and your's so evil.

Yes, christians have done terrible things in the past, but do they also ask every German to apologize for what Hitler did?

 

[vespasia]

Yes, christians have done terrible things in the past, but do they also ask every German to apologize for what Hitler did?

In the UK.
The young hotheads in the pagan scene not only would, they do.

 

[wonderwaleye]

Dear InnocentOdion

OOOHHH MYMYMY!!! I sometimes wonder if CHRISTIANS see and UNDERSTAND what they are saying.

" I'm not evangelical with them. They're evangelical with me.

I don't preach to them unless they start criticising my beliefs, otherwise I'm me, in which case I'm just defending my faith - that or if they ask or are interested in knowing more. "

So what are you REALLY saying here???

Could it be:

" JESUS WHILE YOU COMMANDED ME TO GO FORTH UNTO THE ENTIRE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL, GUESS WHAT, I'M NOT GOING TO DO IT "

Same meaning just different words.



" THEY WILL LOOK BUT NOT SEE AND LISTEN AND NOT HEAR!!! "


So says GOD'S WORD!!!


TRY TO REMEMBER:


“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components which are: hearing, accepting, and then acting ( COMMITING ) upon that which you have accepted.
X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O ( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

 

[CyberPaladin]

InnoncentOdion I have only skimmed over the thread before but it's worth repeating you need to get yourself some new friends you have to realize some people aren't going to accept the changes you have made especialy pagans and they will end up dragging you down.

 

[Lumen]

Dear InnocentOdion

OOOHHH MYMYMY!!! I sometimes wonder if CHRISTIANS see and UNDERSTAND what they are saying.

" I'm not evangelical with them. They're evangelical with me.

I don't preach to them unless they start criticising my beliefs, otherwise I'm me, in which case I'm just defending my faith - that or if they ask or are interested in knowing more. "

So what are you REALLY saying here???

Could it be:

" JESUS WHILE YOU COMMANDED ME TO GO FORTH UNTO THE ENTIRE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL, GUESS WHAT, I'M NOT GOING TO DO IT "

Same meaning just different words.



" THEY WILL LOOK BUT NOT SEE AND LISTEN AND NOT HEAR!!! "


So says GOD'S WORD!!!


TRY TO REMEMBER:


“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components which are: hearing, accepting, and then acting ( COMMITING ) upon that which you have accepted.
X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O ( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

Yes, we're just supposed to go and preach to everyone. Forget about friendship, just preach preach preach until we drop dead from asphyxiation.

/sarcasm

I am hazarding a guess that your friends are in a similar age group to yourself.
If they are anything like some of the teenagers I know they will have begun to explore alternative spirituality I guess in their early teens helped by the internet. Some of the sites in googles cache(five years ago and more) did include discussions from many UK groups with regards to the behaviour of the Christian church towards them in the late 1980's and 1990's. Such sites certainly did not mince their words. Think of SAFF, PAN and the more politicaly astute version of this decade; PEBBLE

In the UK to describe oneself as a satanist-luciferian tends to indciate a young person who has not finished an internal philosohical debate. For those of a theistic inclination there are older groups but it is unlikely your friend will have meet their exacting requirements.

Wicca itself does NOT embrace 'black magick' but a young person with a lot of pent up anger may well do so in an effort to gain some power and control following a period of feeling they had none. If they had a real understanding of the unpredictable nature of black magick they would not touch it unless they were stone cold sober and utterly in control of their emotions and had thought long and hard of ALL the potential consequences for themselves. It has a habit of comming back at the person who tries to send it out.
Now God CAN take a persons anger especially if their human father has given them a warped template of the fatherhood of God.

From your posts it reads as if your pagan friend has only looked inwards at her self constructed belief and rejects anything that does not fit with how she thinks the world should be. This is a tad 'fluff bunny' and indicates she is still young and has not considered looking outside of herself for answers.

Your 'animist' friend is using that label as a cover, they are therian and yes there are therian/furry clubs in Britian. He has probably gleaned most of his information on the subject from the www and this is framing his beliefs and subsequent reactions to his envioronment. The therian mindset is similar to the sanguine but one heck of a lot more sociable. Some are drawn to the therian lifestyle as an answer to their mental distress its easier to think your a werewolf/ were (insert choice) than suffering a form of mental anguish. This is going to be the hardest one to reach as you risk this person equating any concept of Christ agianst the therian philosophical outlook; some especially amongst the elders I truly DO believe they are the dogs of heaven sent down in human form. That is one of the saner concepts.

In the UK those who are very seriously studying the occuult tend to be too busy to make a lot of noise about it and debating even atagonistically with a known Christian is considered a distraction from exploration. The only way I would get into an aggresive arguement with a Christian was if they persistantly hounded me the rest of the time they simply did not register as important enough to listen too.

You cannot do anything to convince them to change their minds BUT God can.
How you live your life will speak louder than any mere words. The Christians who quitely lived their faith had more impact on me than those who shouted and raved.
Quitely pray for them when you spend time with God for them to want to begin to seek God as He really is so that one day they may also know Christ.

*Sighs* In the Uk the 'witch hunts' of the late C16-C17th were aimmed at those marginalised by society, it was a time of great political upheavel that resulted in the 'enlightenment' reactions which produced at one end of the scale 'The Lunar society' representing order and The Hellfire Clubs representing a debuached libertine egotistical one. The Church did not produce Matthew Hopkins the choas of the collapsed social infrastructure did.

When faced with someone who is obviously very angry it is normally sensible to acknowledge that anger and remain calm to 'de-esculate' rather than aggrivate. That IS easier said than done though. She sounds very upset that you have gone into a belief system she considers abusive and this reaction may well come from a mix of a human concern for your wellbeing combeined with a real horror your going to become 'one of them'.

Many older UK pagans (thats my age group over 40) have not forgotten the late 1980's and early 1990's in this country that culminated in the La Fontaine Report of 1994. They remain suspicous of and wary of Christians for good reasons. To get such a level of spite you need to have someone who has grown up in and been hurt by someone in or by the church itself. Christ may be perfect but His church is not.

Most occultists like the rest of humanity are inherantly selfish.

Your theistic satanist is not in contact with any of the established UK orders because if he was he would not be running around boasting of wanting to 'blow up all the churches' That is a human reaction meant to annoy you personnally and see how YOU react and not a satanic philsophy. If he had spent any time in serious thought and consideration he would have worked out you cannot blow up the churches only thier buildings.

Sadly not all friendships can survive your making a choice to follow Christ. People being aggresive around a young child regardless of their faith is a good reason to cut a contact. Even older pagans would recommend that course of action.
If your friends are intrested in a real friendship as opposed to what is happening now they may want to contact Pastor Phil at The Gathering in Salem. He runs the Circle and Cross talk list that has helped many pagans who have been concerned when people they love have converted to Christianity. Pastor Phil has an ability to dispel the myths about Christ and help people see that Christ is not like His church, it is the church that needs to be like Christ.

You may also find the information at these websites helpful to you.

www.refugeministries.cc
www.exwitch.org
www.ancientcrossroads.org

 

[wonderwaleye]

Yes, we're just supposed to go and preach to everyone. Forget about friendship, just preach preach preach until we drop dead from asphyxiation.

/sarcasm

Dear Luman

" Yes, we're just supposed to go and preach to everyone. Forget about friendship, "

OOHHHH MYMYMY!!!

Do you see what you just said???

Read the WORDS slowly and think about what you just said:

" friendship "

Just what kind of friend is it that leaves you in satan's HOLE??? A QUIET FRIEND??? OR A REAL FRIEND THAT WILL DO ANYTHING INCLUDING LAYING HIS LIFE DOWN FOR YOU???

OR ONE THAT WILL TELL YOU JUST LIKE IT IS NO MATTER WHAT???

Now lets look at that word:
" friendship " again. Does it still have the same meaning???

MAY WE ALL REMEMBER:

“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components which are: hearing, accepting, and then acting ( COMMITING ) upon that which you have accepted.
X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O ( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

 

[Lumen]

Dear Luman

" Yes, we're just supposed to go and preach to everyone. Forget about friendship, "

OOHHHH MYMYMY!!!

Do you see what you just said???

Read the WORDS slowly and think about what you just said:

" friendship "

Just what kind of friend is it that leaves you in satan's HOLE??? A QUIET FRIEND??? OR A REAL FRIEND THAT WILL DO ANYTHING INCLUDING LAYING HIS LIFE DOWN FOR YOU???

OR ONE THAT WILL TELL YOU JUST LIKE IT IS NO MATTER WHAT???

Now lets look at that word:
" friendship " again. Does it still have the same meaning???

MAY WE ALL REMEMBER:

“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components which are: hearing, accepting, and then acting ( COMMITING ) upon that which you have accepted.
X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O ( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

It's going much too far to say they are leaving him in "satan's hole".

 

[Gear853]

woah. let's relax now. we are suppose to help the OP here =)

 

[1Newcreation]

2Corinthians 6:14-15
" Do not be yoked together with unbelievers: For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?"


So I am curious what do you have in common with these people? What do you talk about? What kind of music do like to share? What books do you read and discuss about, what movies or tv shows do you like to watch and share, or where do you hang out? If you and your 'friends' are on the opposite ends of the spectrum regarding spiritual beliefs, then these beliefs must effect every aspect of your lives and the two cannot mingle. Light and darkness cannot be as one.

I agree with Fenderbenders post. You need to be concerned for the welfare of yourself and your daughter and I do not believe you are spiritually strong enough to contend with this kind of opposition right now. We have to be deeply rooted in the Word of God, armed for battle as is tells us in Ephesians 6.
You must also use scripture as it is written in the bible, if and when you are witnessing to your friends otherwise everything you are saying to them is like blowing in the wind.
Romans 10:17 "faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ."

Do you have any Christian friends? Are you afraid of being rejected and being alone if you tell these unbelievers you no longer want them in your home?
I still don't understand why you would have them visit you and spend time in your home. It's like inviting satan himself.
I am not saying you cannot see these people, maybe the Lord wants to use you as a beacon of light for these lost souls. But it should be on neutral ground and with less frequency. Your 'friends' hate Christ, think about it, they hate our saviour, our God, our Lord and they come into your home and belittle your beliefs and try and pull you away from the truth.

More effectively than anything else is to pray for these people. Pray for the Lord to remove the scales from their eyes.
Take your focus off these unbelievers who are not ready to hear the voice of God, as someone has stated already, you are throwing pearls to the swine. And
Look for other more willing souls, hungry to know the truth and want to be saved but do not know how.


1newcreation