view of hell and gratitude to Christ

[All4Christ]

Anastasia’s point is very important. When you view Hell as a punishment from a vindictive God, it really doesn’t make much sense if we follow the Western understanding of original sin. Of course, this does vary to some degree across the various denominations.

We consider that original sin to introduce physical death to us all. We aren’t guilty of Adam and Eve’s Original sin. We also don’t consider salvation to be a one time occurrence. It is a process to grow closer and become more like Christ...somewhat similar to the Holiness version of sanctification, although it isn’t separated as “salvation” and then “sanctification”. God desires the salvation of all - and loves everyone.

With that in mind - what exactly is Hell? Is it a place God made to punish people? Scripture teaches that even the depths of Sheol are filled with God’s presence.

In the OT, God’s full presence could not be experienced directly, hence the burning bush, Moses’ experience, etc. At the end after the final judgment, however, we are truly in God’s full presence....the presence of his unadulterated love. The question become - how will we react to this Love? Will we experience the joy of His love? Or will we be burned from it since we love sin over God? If we are not filled with God’s presence, and if we love sin over God, we won’t be able to stand the pure love of God without pain and suffering. That’s not so much a punishment from God, but a choice we all make.

Does that make sense? I’m still really tired from being sick, so my writing may not be very clear yet.

For some more info: The Orthodox Faith - Volume IV - Spirituality - The Kingdom of Heaven - Heaven and Hell

 

[“Paisios”]

I’m still really tired from being sick, so my writing may not be very clear yet.

Praying for your healing.
Lord, have mercy.

 

[AMM]

How do Orthodox understand this passage from Paul: (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

"They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

It seems like some Orthodox believe that hell is still the presence of God, but experienced differently based on the individual (i.e., those who have been purged with hyssop and washed whiter than snow with the blood of the lamb are united to Christ and experience his love warmly, but those who reject God are forced to endure his presence which burns them - but it seems like Paul says that hell is not in the presence of the Lord), so I'm curious how you all interpret Paul here

 

[ArmyMatt]

How do Orthodox understand this passage from Paul: (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

"They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

It seems like some Orthodox believe that hell is still the presence of God, but experienced differently based on the individual (i.e., those who have been purged with hyssop and washed whiter than snow with the blood of the lamb are united to Christ and experience his love warmly, but those who reject God are forced to endure his presence which burns them - but it seems like Paul says that hell is not in the presence of the Lord), so I'm curious how you all interpret Paul here

I think that's a mistranslation and in the Greek it's "from before the presence of the Lord." not "away from the presence of the Lord."

 

[AMM]

I think that's a mistranslation and in the Greek it's "from before the presence of the Lord." not "away from the presence of the Lord."

Interesting. I hadn't thought to look at the Greek yet. Downsides of not being comfortable with the language yet, is that I rarely use it (and thus remain uncertain with it). In my very limited knowledge, I guess apo prosopou could be translated both ways.

Interestingly, the ESV also notes that "destruction, away from" can also be "destruction that comes from". Isaiah 2 is given as a crossreference by the ESV, which describes the day of judgment by saying that unbelievers hide from the Lord's might and glory among rocks and caves (to paraphrase) which supports the Orthodox view -- unbelievers cower in terror for fear of the blinding holiness of God, but they aren't in a different location.

 

[TheSynergist]

Yes, we are guilty and should repent. But more, they take us further from God and are actually jabs into our person that injure us further - we grow sick with sin, and if we continue in it, our person/nature becomes corrupt, perverted, loving darkness. If we insist on remaining in such a state, we would not be prepared to encounter the holiness and love that is God, in His direct presence. It would be torment for us. Yet God in His Great and unending mercy wants nothing more than to bind up those wounds we inflict upon ourselves, heal us from our sickness and transgressions, make us whole and raise us up in likeness of His Son, and restore to us perfect fellowship, so that we can become partakers with Him and enjoy Him forever. That is why we can love God.

This is amazing. I know this is true, but from years of wrong theology I struggle with this greatly. Thank you!