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Video: 'You would think we deported a candidate for father of the year'

RocksInMyHead

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It's pretty clear what the judge said.
Bail hearings don't make statements of fact. If, for instance, someone is arrested on suspicion of murder, and the judge denies bail based on the DA's assertion that the suspect is a gang member and a danger to society, that does not mean that the DA has proven that the suspect is a gang member or a murderer - they would still need to establish that fact in the trial, including presentation of evidence and rebuttal/cross-examination by the defense. It simply means that the judge has seen enough evidence that he thinks the DA's assertion is likely true. It's not unusual for judges to err on the side of caution when it comes to bail decisions.

When Garcia had his actual immigration hearing, in which he was granted protection from deportation, the government failed to provide sufficient evidence of his gang affiliations, and Garcia's own testimony, as well as the supporting testimony of his family, was enough to convince the judge that he was not a danger. The government (under Trump - this was 2019 still) was given the opportunity to appeal this decision, and chose not to.

 
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JosephZ

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It's pretty clear what the judge said.
It's not pretty clear, it's very clear.

"The fact that a "past, proven, and reliable source of information" verified the Respondent's gang membership, rank, and gang name is sufficient to support that the Respondent is a gang member, and the Respondent has failed to present evidence to rebut that assertion."

The judge didn't say that Garcia is a gang member in that sentence, she said the testimony of a reliable source is sufficient to support that he is a gang member.

Again, this was a bond hearing, not a trial or a removal hearing. Garcia's gang membership wouldn't be determined at a bond hearing.


US Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested Abrego Garcia in 2019 as he was looking for day labour outside a Home Depot store in Maryland. A police informant told police Abrego Garcia was an MS-13 member. Immigration judges denied Abrego Garcia bond, both initially and on appeal, citing the informant’s accusation.

In the initial denial, the judge said the determination of Abrego Garcia’s gang membership “appears to be trustworthy and is supported” by evidence from the Gang Field Interview Sheet which, in part, referenced the informant. Abrego Garcia’s lawyers have repeatedly said in court that the informant’s accusation was fabricated.

The immigration judges’ decision to deny bond is not equivalent to ruling that Abrego Garcia was a gang member, David Bier, associate director of immigration studies at the libertarian Cato Institute, said.

In immigration bond hearings, detainees have the burden of proof to show they are neither a flight risk nor a danger to the community. Abrego Garcia “failed to meet his burden to show that he was not a danger,” Bier said. That’s not the same as the government proving affirmatively that he was an MS-13 member.

The immigration judge is only taking at face value any evidence that the government provides,” Bier said. “It is not assessing its underlying validity at that stage.”


 
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ViaCrucis

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Trump was never convicted of sexual assault.

Your guess would be incorrect.

You haven't paid any attention to what I've said on the matter. Because of your own bias against me on this i will no longer respond to you.

This is a bias which you are proving to be valid.

Trump was convicted of sexual assault. In fact the judge is on record for saying that he was found guilty of rape.

You don't believe either of these things.

But you believe, in spite of zero evidence, that Garcia was a gang member because a judge denied bail on the basis that the accusation of gang affiliation was sufficient to deny bail; but no evidence was provided in court of gang affiliation.

You don't have to respond to me.

But you are proving what I said accurate.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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DaisyDay

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During an immigration hearing, evidence was introduced that Garcia belonged to MS-13, along with testimony from a reliable informant. The judge said the informant had identified Garcia as a gang member; that's it. Her decision was limited only to the question of whether or not to release him from custody.
Furthermore, the "reliable informant" said that Abrego Garcia was a gang member in Suffix County, NY, where he never lived. How is that reliable?
 
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DaisyDay

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Trump was convicted of sexual assault. In fact the judge is on record for saying that he was found guilty of rape.
He was adjudicated to be guilty of sexual assault, but the trial was for defamation in denying the rape. Technically, in New York State, rape is penetration by a penis while digital rape is merely sexual assault. This was a civil case.

Criminally, he has been convicted of 34 felonies, but they were "only" financial misdoings and even though the convictions all stand, his stans insist that not all appeals have run out - which is true re the amounts awarded (which will almost certainly be reduced as they are historically).
 
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rjs330

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Bail hearings don't make statements of fact. If, for instance, someone is arrested on suspicion of murder, and the judge denies bail based on the DA's assertion that the suspect is a gang member and a danger to society, that does not mean that the DA has proven that the suspect is a gang member or a murderer - they would still need to establish that fact in the trial, including presentation of evidence and rebuttal/cross-examination by the defense. It simply means that the judge has seen enough evidence that he thinks the DA's assertion is likely true. It's not unusual for judges to err on the side of caution when it comes to bail decisions.

When Garcia had his actual immigration hearing, in which he was granted protection from deportation, the government failed to provide sufficient evidence of his gang affiliations, and Garcia's own testimony, as well as the supporting testimony of his family, was enough to convince the judge that he was not a danger. The government (under Trump - this was 2019 still) was given the opportunity to appeal this decision, and chose not to.

Bail hearings don't make statements of fact. If, for instance, someone is arrested on suspicion of murder, and the judge denies bail based on the DA's assertion that the suspect is a gang member and a danger to society, that does not mean that the DA has proven that the suspect is a gang member or a murderer - they would still need to establish that fact in the trial, including presentation of evidence and rebuttal/cross-examination by the defense. It simply means that the judge has seen enough evidence that he thinks the DA's assertion is likely true. It's not unusual for judges to err on the side of caution when it comes to bail decisions.

When Garcia had his actual immigration hearing, in which he was granted protection from deportation, the government failed to provide sufficient evidence of his gang affiliations, and Garcia's own testimony, as well as the supporting testimony of his family, was enough to convince the judge that he was not a danger. The government (under Trump - this was 2019 still) was given the opportunity to appeal this decision, and chose not to.

In this case the judge did make a statement of fact.

The fact that a "past, proven, and reliable source of information" verified the Respondent's gang membership, rank, and gang name is sufficient to support that the Respondent is a gang member, and the Respondent has failed to present evidence to rebut that assertion.

I think I'm just going to keep on quoting the judge in this case. I'm not longer going to argue this. I'm just going to quote.

He was also slated for deportation. Garcia fought it asking for asylum which was denied. He also claimed he was i. Danger i. El Salvador. The judge agreed.

However the judge also stated that the withholding from removal was not the same as asylum. The judge clarifies that it only refers to the right not to be deported to a particular country rather than the right to remain in the US. The judge referred to INS vs Aguirre-Aguirre 526 US 415 1999.

He was NOT protected from deportation. He was protected from being deported to El Salvador.
 
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rjs330

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It's not pretty clear, it's very clear.

"The fact that a "past, proven, and reliable source of information" verified the Respondent's gang membership, rank, and gang name is sufficient to support that the Respondent is a gang member, and the Respondent has failed to present evidence to rebut that assertion."

The judge didn't say that Garcia is a gang member in that sentence, she said the testimony of a reliable source is sufficient to support that he is a gang member.

Again, this was a bond hearing, not a trial or a removal hearing. Garcia's gang membership wouldn't be determined at a bond hearing.


US Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested Abrego Garcia in 2019 as he was looking for day labour outside a Home Depot store in Maryland. A police informant told police Abrego Garcia was an MS-13 member. Immigration judges denied Abrego Garcia bond, both initially and on appeal, citing the informant’s accusation.

In the initial denial, the judge said the determination of Abrego Garcia’s gang membership “appears to be trustworthy and is supported” by evidence from the Gang Field Interview Sheet which, in part, referenced the informant. Abrego Garcia’s lawyers have repeatedly said in court that the informant’s accusation was fabricated.

The immigration judges’ decision to deny bond is not equivalent to ruling that Abrego Garcia was a gang member, David Bier, associate director of immigration studies at the libertarian Cato Institute, said.

In immigration bond hearings, detainees have the burden of proof to show they are neither a flight risk nor a danger to the community. Abrego Garcia “failed to meet his burden to show that he was not a danger,” Bier said. That’s not the same as the government proving affirmatively that he was an MS-13 member.

The immigration judge is only taking at face value any evidence that the government provides,” Bier said. “It is not assessing its underlying validity at that stage.”


The judge said.

The fact that a "past, proven, and reliable source of information" verified the Respondent's gang membership, rank, and gang name is sufficient to support that the Respondent is a gang member, and the Respondent has failed to present evidence to rebut that assertion.

He was found to be a gang member.
 
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JosephZ

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The judge said.

The fact that a "past, proven, and reliable source of information" verified the Respondent's gang membership, rank, and gang name is sufficient to support that the Respondent is a gang member, and the Respondent has failed to present evidence to rebut that assertion.

He was found to be a gang member.
Again, the judge didn't say that Garcia is a gang member in that sentence; she said the testimony of a reliable source is sufficient to support that he is a gang member.

I've already linked to three experts in immigration law and have provided the court documents that show he was never found to be a member of a gang. Even the quote from the judge you keep posting to support your argument isn't saying what you think it says. I'm beginning to think that if the judge that ruled in Garcia's hearing told you herself that she didn't find Garcia to be a member of a gang, you would believe her.

Anyway, I decided to ask Grok as a last resort, and here's what it says:

He was found by the judge to be a gang member.

garcia0.jpg
 
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rjs330

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Again, the judge didn't say that Garcia is a gang member in that sentence; she said the testimony of a reliable source is sufficient to support that he is a gang member.

I've already linked to three experts in immigration law and have provided the court documents that show he was never found to be a member of a gang. Even the quote from the judge you keep posting to support your argument isn't saying what you think it says. I'm beginning to think that if the judge that ruled in Garcia's hearing told you herself that she didn't find Garcia to be a member of a gang, you would believe her.

Anyway, I decided to ask Grok as a last resort, and here's what it says:



View attachment 363969
Again, the judge didn't say that Garcia is a gang member in that sentence; she said the testimony of a reliable source is sufficient to support that he is a gang member.

I've already linked to three experts in immigration law and have provided the court documents that show he was never found to be a member of a gang. Even the quote from the judge you keep posting to support your argument isn't saying what you think it says. I'm beginning to think that if the judge that ruled in Garcia's hearing told you herself that she didn't find Garcia to be a member of a gang, you would believe her.

Anyway, I decided to ask Grok as a last resort, and here's what it says:



View attachment 363969
Yes the judge did.

The fact that a "past, proven, and reliable source of information" verified the Respondent's gang membership, rank, and gang name is sufficient to support that the Respondent is a gang member,
 
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Pommer

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Yes the judge did.

The fact that a "past, proven, and reliable source of information" verified the Respondent's gang membership, rank, and gang name is sufficient to support that the Respondent is a gang member,
This point is moot as the government has stipulated that Garcia was deported erroneously (and to the only country that he had been barred from being deported to).
 
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rjs330

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This point is moot as the government has stipulated that Garcia was deported erroneously (and to the only country that he had been barred from being deported to).
Yes. I'm trying to counter the false narrative be spread by the left. He was found to be deportable. However we could not send him to El Salvador. Which we did. It was a screw up. Bring him back, put him through the process to have that order removed and send him back.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Listen we know all that. That doeant change fact that he was found to be a gang member of MS13. That was the accusation including his position and name. Of course he was and that was a reason he wasn't sent back. He was scared of the rival gang there.

He was with MS13 members, he had wads of cash on him all drawn on with symbols of MS13, he had a MS13 position and name. He was afraid of his rival gang. It all adds up. The court decided.
If only we could prevent all gang members from going to prison. Heaven forbid they are in fear of rival gangs. All gang members should be released now!
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Yes. I'm trying to counter the false narrative be spread by the left. He was found to be deportable. However we could not send him to El Salvador. Which we did. It was a screw up. Bring him back, put him through the process to have that order removed and send him back.
Maybe he can get his due process remotely? Like a Zoom meeting? That was a thing during the Covid lockdowns.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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There was no ruling from the judge that Garcia was a gang member. The only ruling the judge made was that he be denied bail.

If the judge did rule at that time that Garcia was a member of MS 13, then a conservative judge appointed by the Trump administration wouldn't have later released him and given him protected status.
He was denied bail because he was seen as too much of a public threat due to his gang affiliations and was seen as a flight risk.
 

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RocksInMyHead

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He was denied bail because he was seen as too much of a public threat due to his gang affiliations and was seen as a flight risk.
And yet, was later permitted to stay in the US, protected from deportation. A decision that the government elected not to appeal. If he was such a threat, why didn't ICE make any effort to appeal his protection from deportation?
 
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DaisyDay

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He was denied bail because he was seen as too much of a public threat due to his gang affiliations and was seen as a flight risk.
The gang identification was hearsay and turned out to be impossible as he was identified as being in Suffix County where he never was.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Yes it's true. I can keep this up as long as you can. I dont care what legal experts say. I care what the judge said.
This should help you out.

After considering the information provided by both parties, the Court concluded that no bond was appropriate in this matter. The Court first reasoned that the Respondent failed to meet his burden of demonstrating that his release from custody would not pose a danger to others, as the evidence shows that he is a verified member of MS-13. Matter of Siniauskas, 27 l&N Dec. at 210; Matter of Adeniji, 22 l&N Dec. at 1111-13; 8 C.F.R. § 1003.19(h)(3). The BIA has held that, absent any indication that the information therein is incorrect or was the result of coercion or duress, Form 1-213 is "inherently trustworthy and admissible." Matter of Barcenas, 19 l&N Dec. 609,611 (BIA 1988). The Respondent contends that the Form 1-213 in his case erroneously states that he was detained in connection to a murder investigation. He also claims that the 1-213 is internally contradicts itself as to whether the Respondent fears returning to El Salvador. The reason for the Respondent's arrest given on his Form 1-213 does appear at odds with the Gang Field Interview Sheet, which states that the Respondent was approached because he and others were loitering outside of a Home Depot. Regardless, the determination that the Respondent is a gang member appears to be trustworthy and is supported by other evidence in the record, namely, information contained in the Gang Field Interview Sheet. Although the Court is reluctant to give evidentiary weight to the Respondent's clothing as an indication of gang affiliation, the fact that a "past, proven, and reliable source of information" verified the Respondent's gang membership, rank, and gang name is sufficient to support that the Respondent is a gang member, and the Respondent has failed to present evidence to rebut that assertion. The Court further held that no bond was appropriate in order to ensure the Respondent's appearance at future hearings, as he had not met his burden of showing that he would not be a flight risk. See 8 C.F.R. § 1003.l 9(h)(3). The Respondent's case presents limited eligibility for relief, thereby significantly diminishing his incentive to appear for future immigration proceedings. He is not married to his fiance, and any immigration relief that he can be expected to gain from a marital relationship with her in the future is speculative. Although the Respondent stated that he intends to file for asylum, his eligibility appears limited to withholding of removal and protection under the Convention Against Torture due to his failure to file an application within one year of his arrival in the United States. Those forms ofrelief are limited and contain standards that are difficult to meet. In addition, the record evidence shows that the Respondent has a history of failing to appear for proceedings pertaining to his traffic violations. See Bond Exh. 2, Tab I at 28-29. He asserted that he did not receive notice of these proceedings, but in his written statement, he admitted that he remembers receiving citations that he chose not to follow up on. See Bond Exh. 2, Tab Bat 5. The Respondent's lack of diligence in following up on his traffic court cases indicates that he cannot be trusted to appear in immigration court. In light of these findings, the Court concluded that no bond was appropriate in this matter. That order was issued on April 24, 2019. The Respondent reserved the right to appeal. Date �etli A. Kessler Immigration Judge


I honestly don't know how many times I have to post this evidence before people will stop claiming there is no evidence.
 

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Oompa Loompa

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The gang identification was hearsay and turned out to be impossible as he was identified as being in Suffix County where he never was.
An immigration judge disagrees. The judge found him to be a MS‐13 gang member based on the preponderance of the evidence provided.
 

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Oompa Loompa

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The judge didn't say that Garcia is a gang member in that sentence, she said the testimony of a reliable source is sufficient to support that he is a gang member.
Okay? Judge didn't say he was a gang member, just that his gang membership was confirmed?
 
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