Very young children and Mass

[3toraiseup]

I would say that perception is inaccurate. Noisy kids annoy me, a lot in mass. I cannot concentrate on prayer or the homily. I really wish people would utilize the babysitting services offered at the large parish I attend.

Not that I make light of your personal situation. My husband struggles intensely with distraction at Mass. His inability to focus is why our children have stayed home. In fact, noisy kids annoy me too... especially if I can't hear what's being said during the mass.

But, as a parent who attends mass without my own children, I can say that other people's children distract me about .001% of the time whereas my own children distract me quite a bit more. Furthermore, I KNOW that the majority of people feel the same, because they say so. Catholics of all ages and abilities are welcome at Mass. I used to sit in the cry room next to a father and son who had Turet's Syndrome. Talk about a distraction! That father took his son every week to the *quiet* 7am Mass and sat with the nursing mothers so as not to distract the congregation

But I wasn't talking about noisy kids that need to be removed from their pew, rather I was refering to very young children who are being children... a little wiggly, a little chatty, but otherwise behaving age-appropriately. Two year olds can be taught to whisper. They can't sit very still, but they can stay within boundries.

In my experience, most noisy kids ARE removed from the mass... rare is it for a parent to allow the disruption to continue on and on. My comments were directed toward this parent of two twins, who feels as though the entire congregation is focused on every little sound or bump her children make. They aren't.

 

[vrunca]

Also, no offense to anyone's personal choices in parenting, but if I had thrown an object during church, I would have had a red back-end for a week. As it was, when I was a kid, I would be dragged out to the front steps of the church and spanked, vigorously, for making sound in church and not responding appropriately (shutting up) when my mom gave me "the look." It did not take many spankings on the church steps for me to sit in complete, dead silence through the entire church service.
-Michael

I am so sorry to hear this, you poor thing!! To have to be made to sit in dead silence through an entire church service is cruel. How can you possibly assist at Mass in dead silence, I hope you respond now!!

With our new priest, he wants me to start having children's Liturgy during the Sunday Mass . I don't necesarilly agree, some of the programs out there seem very well written and it is Liturgically correct to do this with pre-First Communicants, but it is such a loss to the church community! His reasoning is acceptable, it has nothing to do with the noise level, he wants the young children to understand what the readings are about. He said noise doesn't bother him, he said it is a sacrafice, but it is also a celebration!! He is going to have the kids process out and back in and give their gifts at the altar, before the regular collection is done. But he wants all under three year olds to stay in the church and those who have made their First Communion.

But anyway, bring the kids in....sit right in the front pew!!! Include them in on this wonderful celebration of the Mass!!!

 

[TexasCatholic]

Not that I make light of your personal situation. My husband struggles intensely with distraction at Mass. His inability to focus is why our children have stayed home. In fact, noisy kids annoy me too... especially if I can't hear what's being said during the mass.

Yes, that's what I'm referring to, the inability to hear what the celebrant is saying, particularly the homily. Most Catholic churches I've been to have fairly mediocre to inadequate P.A. sound systems, so it doesn't take a huge ruckuss to make hearing the action difficult, unfortunately.

But, as a parent who attends mass without my own children, I can say that other people's children distract me about .001% of the time whereas my own children distract me quite a bit more. Furthermore, I KNOW that the majority of people feel the same, because they say so. Catholics of all ages and abilities are welcome at Mass. I used to sit in the cry room next to a father and son who had Turet's Syndrome. Talk about a distraction! That father took his son every week to the *quiet* 7am Mass and sat with the nursing mothers so as not to distract the congregation

But I wasn't talking about noisy kids that need to be removed from their pew, rather I was refering to very young children who are being children... a little wiggly, a little chatty, but otherwise behaving age-appropriately. Two year olds can be taught to whisper. They can't sit very still, but they can stay within boundries.

In my experience, most noisy kids ARE removed from the mass... rare is it for a parent to allow the disruption to continue on and on. My comments were directed toward this parent of two twins, who feels as though the entire congregation is focused on every little sound or bump her children make. They aren't.

Well, I have no problem with well-behaved children staying in the regular pews during mass. A bit of wiggling and an OCCASIONAL distracting sound is no big deal at all. But, in my experience many people seem to have developed an "ignore shield" for the sounds their own kids make and are almost able to tune out right next to them what drives me to insanity from all the way across the room. Also, the main parish I attend seats 1,000 people and is packed every mass (7 per weekend), and a crying child might create an even larger disruption while walking through the long rows and down the long aisles to get them to the cry room.... Also, the cry rooms are often completely full even before mass begins (because otherwise people have to STAND in the back, it really is that full every week)... so, then they take the kids out to the narnex (correct name?), which is open to the church and thus the crying is amplified by the vaulted ceiling.........

In any case, I want to reiterate that I have no problem and I'm able to deal with the minor distraction of well-behaving toddlers/children. But, when it goes beyond that, it is a distraction that really makes me wish for a child-free mass time offering....

-Michael

 

[TexasCatholic]

I am so sorry to hear this, you poor thing!! To have to be made to sit in dead silence through an entire church service is cruel. How can you possibly assist at Mass in dead silence, I hope you respond now!!

Well, there are no congregational responses in a Baptist worship service. Other than an appropriately (and enthusiastically) interjected "Amen!"... the congregation is expected to be quiet except for singing during songs (which I did as soon as I was old enough to read the hymnal) or providing a testimony at the appropriate time.

Also, every..... and I mean EVERY Baptist (or Methodist for that matter) church I attended during childhood/early adulthood had babysitting service and children's church. All, regardless of size... even a church with as few as 30 in attendance. So, you really rarely saw or heard a baby or toddler in church until they were old enough to behave properly (meaning quietly). My mom gave me paper and things to write/color when I was a smaller child, but before that I was cared for in the church's nursery as a baby/toddler.... and once I was old enough to understand bible verses and sing songs, I went to children's church until I was an adolescent and began going to the regular church services again.

I certainly don't miss the incompleteness of the Baptist sect, but I do miss the defacto nursery/child-care offered in those churches. This gives the parents the opportunity to worship without distraction and it gives the adults in church the chance to worship distraction-free.

Me and my wife intend to utilize babysitting or take turns to mass when our children are in this phase... and we plan to attend a church that has children's liturgy when they reach that age.

-Michael

 

[3toraiseup]

Eureka! This bring your children to Mass thing has a convert component.

I grew up in a Pentecostal Church where nary a child was heard. Ushers politely asked newcomers to bring children to the nursery (or children's church). For night services with no childcare, my mother carried a WOODEN SPOON in her purse to keep us in line. While I was spared the rod, my brother often had a red behind.

Part of my anxiety about having my own kids in Mass comes from my upbringing... very similar to SouthCoast's experience!

This is why I always respond in these threads that people need to do the best with what they've got. Some of us were not brought up in a family of 8 sitting in Mass every Sunday. It's a learning curve for parents as well as for the children.

Michael, I will remember you at Mass and say a little prayer that you will be given grace to offer up the distractions and perserverance in your effort to enter into the Liturgy.

 

[bostonlass]

I always took mine to the children's mass when they were that little. The grown-ups that don't like the distractions know to stay away and everyone's so noisy my kids were never even heard above them all. Plus the preist talks in "kid-language" and explains what is going on so that they actually do pay attention and all are happy.

 

[WarriorAngel]

WE toughed it out, and eventually told them they must behave at Church.

Actually, four young kids at Mass behaving was not easy, but it happened.

My youngest will be 6 on Monday.

We had cry room moments, and 'I wanna pull my hair out' moments, but all in all, it was never practical for us to go to seperate Masses.

 

[RoseofLima]

Well, there are no congregational responses in a Baptist worship service. Other than an appropriately (and enthusiastically) interjected "Amen!"... the congregation is expected to be quiet except for singing during songs (which I did as soon as I was old enough to read the hymnal) or providing a testimony at the appropriate time.

Also, every..... and I mean EVERY Baptist (or Methodist for that matter) church I attended during childhood/early adulthood had babysitting service and children's church. All, regardless of size... even a church with as few as 30 in attendance. So, you really rarely saw or heard a baby or toddler in church until they were old enough to behave properly (meaning quietly). My mom gave me paper and things to write/color when I was a smaller child, but before that I was cared for in the church's nursery as a baby/toddler.... and once I was old enough to understand bible verses and sing songs, I went to children's church until I was an adolescent and began going to the regular church services again.

I certainly don't miss the incompleteness of the Baptist sect, but I do miss the defacto nursery/child-care offered in those churches. This gives the parents the opportunity to worship without distraction and it gives the adults in church the chance to worship distraction-free.

Me and my wife intend to utilize babysitting or take turns to mass when our children are in this phase... and we plan to attend a church that has children's liturgy when they reach that age.

-Michael

It turned out that I ended up an attatchment parent...and I am never separated from my babies, and don't allow my others to be babysat until they are at least around 1 1/2--and then only by family. I was never comfortable with handing my children off to some stranger with who knows what qualifications or child rearing philosophy.

I didn't know that I'd turn out to be that kind of parent - it just happened...my oldest had very serious separation anxiety as an infant and toddler (and pre-schooler). Now he's totally comfortable in new situations after he get sover that initial anxiety of the unknown. But I would hesitate to make plans about childcare, before there are any babies, becuase it might turn out you end up with a baby who comes wired a little different from other children- and change all of your expectations.

Also- Mass is not just about worship-- all in attendence have their souls fundamentally changed by being present--even the smallest babe in arms.

 

[lameschina]

You have given me a lot to think about...although I am still undecided about when I'm going to start bringing them again.



They are starting to mature enough that they can follow simple "social" directions (sit still, shh, etc.)...for a little while. We may end up with coloring books in the cry room yet.

But I think having the experience of Mass when a child is young outweighs my need to have perfect serenity while I am there.

Rose, I have to agree that you can't say what you are going to do until your child is born. I am not an attachment parent but I did have a lot of beliefs about childcare, etc. that had to be seriously reconsidered once I had a practical opportunity to test them out!

Again, thanks, I have learned a lot.

Jennifer

 

[TexasCatholic]

What I think it comes down to is parents these days (by and large) are not teaching their kids proper PUBLIC behavior..... In addition to being expected to be SILENT in church I was expected to maintain a LOW VOLUME and speak only when appropriate at the following places:

1) Restaurants, including fast-food. Believe it or not, it is not free-for-all time just because you're at McDonalds.
2) Visiting family/friends when in the presence of adults... we could act goofy like kids when we were off in the KID'S room, back yard, etc (within reasonable, non-screaming volume levels). Not in the living room making complete idiots of ourselves (and our parents). Not acceptable.
3) Any adult congregating area, e.g. mom or dad's workplace, bible study meetings (adult meetings), in line at a public place, or anywhere else that civil behavior is expected.

We could let go and be kids anytime in our bedroom(s), back yard, front yard, playgrounds, etc and to some extent school (of course having differing behavioral expectations for classroom vs. recess/playground).

Failure to meet expectations even after correction by mom, dad or ANY ADULT IN AUTHORITY AT THE TIME (e.g. teacher, babysitter, adult family member) would result in punishment... and "timeout" and "oh, golly honey, we'll have to take away your Playstation privileges" are not punishments. Punishment meant a red backside, as it should in appropriate situations, which would include anytime a child is not in compliance with parental requests even after repeated correction.

So, basically, I think my issue goes beyond mass, but to the poor child rearing methods that are employed these days by so-called parents. It's not reserved for the rich or the poor or the middle-class, it's all over the place. I can always tell a good parent, say, in line at Wal-Mart, because he/she only has to give a dirty sneer to the child who is misbehaving to get IMMEDIATE correction. That parent has actually used discipline effectively... I can always tell a POOR parent out in public, because they make empty threats, which result in NO change in the child's behavior, and they ultimately give in to whatever the kid wants. These children are usually LOUD, squealing/whining/crying, talk WAY too loud and simply have never been trained on public behavior. Bad parenting. Catholics are no exception... If anything, they illustrate it to us when they bring them to church acting out their lack of training and discipline.

-Michael

 

[ZooMom]

I think most parents are doing the best they can. I think that, by and large, most parents love their children and want them to be happy. Some parents confuse happiness with gratification, and you get spoiled unsocialized children who are anything but happy. And, yeah, those kids might be difficult to be around, but they are just kids and it isn't their fault. And their parents just may not have useful parenting skills, or even be aware that they need any. They love their kids, they take them to the doctor, keep them healthy, provide them clothes, food, shelter, toys, bring them to church...what more can they do, right. When I see parents struggling with kids like that, I don't get mad or annoyed. What good does that do? I feel bad for them, and if I can I offer to help. I've been behind other parents at church and at the check outs at stores and if I see a baby or toddler getting loud and cranky, I try to distract them. Smile at them, wink at them, say something sympathetic and encouraging to the mom or dad. Heck, even my kids will do stuff like that for other people's kids. Especially Corry. He loves kids, and you just don't see that much in 12 year old boys.

It's great for people to start thinking about how they want to parent before they have kids. And it's great to not make broad critcisms of people who are already doing it, because you just don't know their circumstances. Seeing someone struggling with their kid's bahavior in public is not an indication that they are a bad parent. Maybe they've just had a bad day, or the kid is overly tired or stimulated or even sick. You just don't know and you can 't be labeling people bad parents for stuff like that. Nobody's kids are perfect all the time. Nobody's.

Oh, and just for the record...I think there may have been some confusion with my first post. My children don't throw things in church. I said certain things had the potential to become thrown, and knowing that my boys liked to throw things, I brilliantly deduced that taking those things to church for them would be a bad idea. And, IMHO, it doesn't take a lot of backbone to strike a child. For some people all it takes is anger, or embarrassment, or frustration. And some people just do it because they can. If someone is going to use spanking as a discipline then they better be darn sure of their own control and self discipline...or all they are going to teach their child is that hitting people makes them do what you want and if they are doing something you don't want, hitting them makes them stop. My kids have been spanked. But only for doing something that could have caused them far greater hurt than the spanking. Spanking a child, especially a small child, for something like crying...I've yet to ever see that make the crying stop.
Remember that I said that some parents confuse happiness with gratification? Some parents also confuse respect with fear. Be careful about recommending spanking as a cure-all for inappropriate behavior. It isn't. But a little compassion and charity are more than called for, instead of contempt and criticism. Let's be kind.

Peace be with you.

Sandy

 

[RoseofLima]

What I think it comes down to is parents these days (by and large) are not teaching their kids proper PUBLIC behavior.....

This just made me giggle...I thought social behaviour was supposed to be cured by kids going to school... Everytime I mention homeschooling I have to answer how on earth my children will be socialized...

I actually think most adults don't know how to behave in public...have you heard some of the things people talk about on their cell phones in the middle of stores

 

[RoseofLima]

What I think it comes down to is parents these days (by and large) are not teaching their kids proper PUBLIC behavior..... In addition to being expected to be SILENT in church I was expected to maintain a LOW VOLUME and speak only when appropriate at the following places:

1) Restaurants, including fast-food. Believe it or not, it is not free-for-all time just because you're at McDonalds.
2) Visiting family/friends when in the presence of adults... we could act goofy like kids when we were off in the KID'S room, back yard, etc (within reasonable, non-screaming volume levels). Not in the living room making complete idiots of ourselves (and our parents). Not acceptable.
3) Any adult congregating area, e.g. mom or dad's workplace, bible study meetings (adult meetings), in line at a public place, or anywhere else that civil behavior is expected.

We could let go and be kids anytime in our bedroom(s), back yard, front yard, playgrounds, etc and to some extent school (of course having differing behavioral expectations for classroom vs. recess/playground).

Failure to meet expectations even after correction by mom, dad or ANY ADULT IN AUTHORITY AT THE TIME (e.g. teacher, babysitter, adult family member) would result in punishment... and "timeout" and "oh, golly honey, we'll have to take away your Playstation privileges" are not punishments. Punishment meant a red backside, as it should in appropriate situations, which would include anytime a child is not in compliance with parental requests even after repeated correction.

So, basically, I think my issue goes beyond mass, but to the poor child rearing methods that are employed these days by so-called parents. It's not reserved for the rich or the poor or the middle-class, it's all over the place. I can always tell a good parent, say, in line at Wal-Mart, because he/she only has to give a dirty sneer to the child who is misbehaving to get IMMEDIATE correction. That parent has actually used discipline effectively... I can always tell a POOR parent out in public, because they make empty threats, which result in NO change in the child's behavior, and they ultimately give in to whatever the kid wants. These children are usually LOUD, squealing/whining/crying, talk WAY too loud and simply have never been trained on public behavior. Bad parenting. Catholics are no exception... If anything, they illustrate it to us when they bring them to church acting out their lack of training and discipline.

-Michael

The funny thing is that when you actually have a child of your own--you begin to see far more clearly then detriments as well as benefits to your own upbringing. I used to think that my parents did a swell job---until I had a baby of my own and I realised how flippin' hard it is for me to parent my children- from all of the scars and wounds left by the emotions imprinted upon my from my own childhood. Nearly every single parent I know has gone through the same thing when they have become a parent--that reckoning with the past.

I do NOT spank my children (I can't do it without anger or annoyance). When we go into Wal-Mart- they are given the rules and parameters--and clear understanding of the consequence for failure to exercise thei freedom properly. They are very well behaved children. (I actually think they're little wretches--but we almost never go anywhere without someone complimenting how well behaved my children are). But it seems by your definition I am a bad parent.

I really took to heart the call to St. John the Baptist "Prepare ye' the way of the Lord!"--my primary job as a parent is to prepare my children for intimate relationship with Jesus and to fulfill their primary vocation- which is to give love and be loved. I try to look at my parenting choices in the light of eternity, not just whether or not I might be embarassed or inconvenienced

 

[Febe]

I remember, that once, an elderly lady looked angrily upon me, when I wispered, very low, an answer to one of my daughters questions... I didn't feel very welcome that Sunday - and it was when we had just started to go to the Catholic church...
I still remember my daughters question. The priest had talked about "to fear God", and my daughter wondered why we should be afraid of God, our Father in heaven; and I told her, that "to fear God" was a very old way to say that we should have very, very much respect for Him...
Nowadays, this critical lady often asks my youngest daughter to read a text in Mass...

 

[ZooMom]

I actually think most adults don't know how to behave in public...have you heard some of the things people talk about on their cell phones in the middle of stores

Amen to THAT!


And just on a funny note...I was distracted continuously yesterday during Mass by the pew full of adults behind me. Two older ladies in particular kept talking to each other. Perhaps I should have asked them how often they were spanked as children.

 

[Monica02]

Hello,

I was wondering how folks with very young children (past infancy, but not yet school age) dealt with attending Mass.

My husband and I have twin boys who will be two in August. We haven't taken them to Mass since they were about a year old, because they are too big to be held for an hour, but too little to have even a basic understanding of how they should behave.

As a result we don't go to Mass together because someone has to stay at home with them.

One of us could hang out in the "cry room" with them, but the room at our church is very small. Whoever had "cry room" duty would be a complete basket case by the time Mass was over.

Has anyone been through something similar? Any advice or sympathy would be greatly appreciated.

I have no kids but I absolutelly love to see them all at mass. They are precious. If the get unruly or loud simply remove them. No biggie. I feel like the church is sort of empty withour litte ones.

 

[RoseofLima]

Amen to THAT!


And just on a funny note...I was distracted continuously yesterday during Mass by the pew full of adults behind me. Two older ladies in particular kept talking to each other. Perhaps I should have asked them how often they were spanked as children.

LOL--- and then given them a Holy Whapping!

 

[ZooMom]

LOL--- and then given them a Holy Whapping!

Wouldn't that be a sight. The ladies in front of me did compliment my children on their behavior, though. We get that almost every Sunday. Ethan, especially, is a favorite with the adults around us. When we exchange the sign of peace, their dad and I trace a cross on the kids foreheads and then kiss them. Ethan tries to do that to the other people around him. Not the kiss, but he tugs on their hand until he can reach up to their heads to trace a cross. It's so precious.

 

[Sonfest Rocker]

Amen to THAT!


And just on a funny note...I was distracted continuously yesterday during Mass by the pew full of adults behind me. Two older ladies in particular kept talking to each other. Perhaps I should have asked them how often they were spanked as children.

there are some adults where i am at the moment that talk, the babys and toddlers are fine and silent all the time. its the teenagers that really annoy me i dont think they know what it means to be silent.(just letting u know i am no longer concidered a teen i am a young adult )

 

[Sonfest Rocker]

Wouldn't that be a sight. The ladies in front of me did compliment my children on their behavior, though. We get that almost every Sunday. Ethan, especially, is a favorite with the adults around us. When we exchange the sign of peace, their dad and I trace a cross on the kids foreheads and then kiss them. Ethan tries to do that to the other people around him. Not the kiss, but he tugs on their hand until he can reach up to their heads to trace a cross. It's so precious.

thats why we need children at mass they are the future of the church and they can be soo sweet.