Veggies may not be that good for you

[trophy33]

People living in poverty is still the biggest group in the world by economic groupings and most of these people are bunched up in cities where they have extremely limited option to grow or raise what they eat.

A cheap diet is the only option available to about half of all the people on the world including myself.

In some places, meat is expensive and plants cheap, in other places meat is cheap and plants expensive.

Just read what Jesus did. How He lived.

If you want to go biblical instead of scientific, think about what the people said to live many hundreds of years ate.

Anyway, I suppose that the most readers of these forums are people from western countries, i.e. from countries in which healthy options are more or less of the same price as junk food and both meat and plants can be bought cheaply, after some searching. So for the most of us, its just about making the right choice and to find the right information.

 

[FireDragon76]

In some places, meat is expensive and plants cheap, in other places meat is cheap and plants expensive.

Plant-based diets tend to be cheapest in developed nations, but generally they are cheaper around the world (with possible exceptions, of course, due to local economies or growing conditions).

New study shows vegan and vegetarian diets are cheaper and healthier

Learn how switching you food choices to vegan and vegetarian diets could reduce your food costs by one-third.

www.healtheuropa.com

(the original study):

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00251-5/fulltext

 

[trophy33]

Plant-based diets tend to be cheapest in developed nations, but generally they are cheaper around the world (with possible exceptions, of course, due to local economies or growing conditions).

New study shows vegan and vegetarian diets are cheaper and healthier

Learn how switching you food choices to vegan and vegetarian diets could reduce your food costs by one-third.

www.healtheuropa.com

(the original study):

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00251-5/fulltext

In many places/cities/countries, if you want to get the comparable nutrition from less poisonous (= bio) plants, meat, eggs or dairy are frequently (much) cheaper.

It depends on a place - in Switzerland, meat is very expensive. In France or Poland, meat is much cheaper. And it also frequently differs in various regions.

 

[timewerx]

The cardio during a fasted state appears to be working. I dropped a half inch off my waist and lost two percent of my total body fat over the weekend. I did two sessions each day of about twenty minutes each in the morning before breakfast, doing mostly uphill walking on a treadmill.

Congratulations! It really works and works best in the morning because your body is already under fat metabolism first thing in the morning.

I suppose walking uphill on a treadmill works great too. As long as it's easy enough, then you'll do great.

If you have a stationary bike at home you can do 3 to 5 minutes whenever you're feeling hungry. Exercise will trigger release of glucose from liver and raise blood sugar but since the exercise is very short, your body will not consume all the glucose and you'll have higher blood sugar than before you exercised. The raised blood sugar will suppress hunger for a while. And you can do 3 to 5 minutes again when hunger returns. Works like a charm!

 

[timewerx]

If you want to go biblical instead of scientific, think about what the people said to live many hundreds of years ate.

Jesus and the disciples seemed to have plenty of fish and bread and sometimes red meat in their diet.

Bread was a staple food in the time and place of Jesus and would make their diets high carb diet. They also consumed wine often but obviously in small enough quantity to avoid drunkenness.

But I doubt any of them would be obese or overweight as that could be seen as evidence of gluttony and they couldn't have covered great distances on foot if they were overweight or obese.

How they managed their weight despite high carb diet, the answer is obvious. They all had lots of physical activity. It was the ancient times after all. They didn't have TV, no radio, no gadgets, no cars, no planes. Work often involved lots of physical activity. Many of them simply walked on foot for over-land transport.

Jewish customs also required two days of fasting each week and Jesus went beyond this (not just with the 40-day fasting). Additionally, Jesus walked up and down a mountain to pray.

They all had tons of exercise with fasting. That is where the Holy Spirit guided me into. I followed it and now I have body fat % of an athlete despite having a high carb diet.

 

[trophy33]

How they managed their weight despite high carb diet, the answer is obvious. They all had lots of physical activity.

Actually, the answer is a bit different - they did not eat junk food (a mixture of sugars and seed oils). You cannot overeat with their type of bread or with fish/meat.

If somebody eats naturally (i.e. the ancestral diet), he will not be obese even without any substantial physical activity. Because body can regulate intake of natural food.

Exercise is for overall health, its not a treatment of obesity. You are still falling for this junk food companies marketing. Its not about moving more, its in the food.

 

[timewerx]

Actually, the answer is a bit different - they did not eat junk food (a mixture of sugars and seed oils). You cannot overeat with their type of bread or with fish/meat.

I would have. I have over-eaten on foods many people would find unpalatable or too plain or too bland.

It's called "acquired taste". You'll get a lot of "acquired taste" when you're poor! Poor here means poor - can't afford to eat fast food on a regular basis nor buying bags of potato chips.

Sugar is not so terrible if you have lots of exercise. Sugar doesn't kill birds because birds get tons of exercise.

Exercise is for overall health, its not a treatment of obesity. You are still falling for this junk food companies marketing. Its not about moving more, its in the food.

I am in partial agreement with you here because I knew some people who exercised as much as I did but still overweight.

Yet, I never knew anyone who exercised as much who is obese. Not one even if they indulge in food.

Personally, I lost significant amount of weight from exercise, even before I knew about Intermittent Fasting and in better times where I ate whenever I'm hungry (high carb diet).

 

[trophy33]

Sugar doesn't kill birds because birds get tons of exercise.

Not sure what this means but if you will feed birds with sugar, they will die no matter of exercise. Like any animal, humans included. Sugar acts as a poison. Exercise can limit or hinder some effects, but the wrong nutrition will still damage the body in some way.

Eating poisons and junk and doing crazy nonsensical exercise to balance it out is not a smart life style. This mindset is wrong. As some kind of a desperate measure in a total poverty? Maybe. But certainly not as a general recommendation.

 

[timewerx]

Not sure what this means but if you will feed birds with sugar, they will die no matter of exercise. Like any animal, humans included. Sugar acts as a poison. Exercise can limit or hinder some effects, but the wrong nutrition will still damage the body in some way.

Eating poisons and junk and doing crazy nonsensical exercise to balance it out is not a smart life style. This mindset is wrong. As some kind of a desperate measure in a total poverty? Maybe. But certainly not as a general recommendation.

Hummingbirds eat lots of sugar through nectar.

Food ingredient for hummingbird feeders is 1/4 cup refined white sugar and 1 cup water. This is from the Audobon Society - the foremost authority in bird conservation.

https://www.audubon.org/news/how-make-hummingbird-nectar.

And don't assume the worst that I'm swimming on sugar. I don't. I only use refined sugar with the decaf coffee drink only twice a day and from tomato ketchup. The rest of the carbs I get from white rice.

I don't eat ice cream. No chocolate bars, no snacks, no cookies, no soda pop, no processed meat, no frozen meals. Most of my food comes from the wet market sourced from raw food ingredients. The only items I eat bought from the grocery store is the oat meal and powdered milk. and My sugar intake is still far less than the average American.

 

[trophy33]

Hummingbirds eat lots of sugar through nectar.

They live 4 years on average.

 

[trophy33]

And don't assume the worst that I'm swimming on sugar. I don't. I only use refined sugar with the decaf coffee drink only twice a day and from tomato ketchup. The rest of the carbs I get from white rice.

I don't eat ice cream. No chocolate bars, no snacks, no cookies, no soda pop, no processed meat, no frozen meals. Most of my food comes from the wet market sourced from raw food ingredients. The only items I eat bought from the grocery store is the oat meal and powdered milk. and My sugar intake is still far less than the average American.

This is not about you, personally. You commonly switch the focus on you, in these topics. However, the context is about the right principles, ideal diet and general recommendations - and a wrong diet cannot be solved with exercise. An intense exercise may actually be harmful, because body can break faster, without proper nutrition.

 

[timewerx]

This is not about you, personally. You commonly switch the focus on you, in these topics. However, the context is about the right principles, ideal diet and general recommendations - and a wrong diet cannot be solved with exercise. An intense exercise may actually be harmful, because body can break faster, without proper nutrition.

If you really believe it's diet alone, then my omnivorous diet must be perfect because it has restored me to youth and more.

 

[timewerx]

They live 4 years on average.

A bigger, well cared for pet mouse on the other hand that isn't as sugar addict as hummingbirds lives only 3 years.

This article discusses why and why a hummingbird's prodigious consumption of sugar does not kill it nor accelerate its aging. One possible factor is antioxidants and these compounds are typically released during exercise. Antioxidants can also act as anti-inflammatory.

What Bird Longevity Might Teach Us About Human Health

Birds have an exceptional resistance to aging. Can scientists discover their secrets?

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

 

[trophy33]

If you really believe it's diet alone, then my omnivorous diet must be perfect because it has restored me to youth and more.

OK, you are young and elite and whatever. You said that many times.

Anyway, I did not claim that something is "about diet only". Great diet, moving/exercise, great sleep, low stress, regular daily rhythm and other factors like living in a clean environment or having a life purpose and optimism are needed for longevity and great health span.

I lived near mining towns so I know from the first hand experience that "moving a lot" will not make you healthy. People die in 60's, 50's, 40's, if they smoke, drink alcohol eat wrong foods. No matter that they work physically the whole day or are slim. Hard work actually harmed many of them so they are partly disabled long time before they die.

 

[FireDragon76]

Seed oils aren't toxic or inflammatory, in fact some seed oils (like sesame oil) contain greater antioxidant potential than many other foods. It is true some seed oils are often used in making junk food, but this is a case of the whole being greater (or worse) than the sum of their parts. In general, calorie per calorie, replacing saturated fat in the diet with polyunsaturated oils is a good strategy for lowering risk of heart disease. Of course, there's a big difference between oil on a salad or greens, and oil in a donut.

 

[timewerx]

I lived near mining towns so I know from the first hand experience that "moving a lot" will not make you healthy. People die in 60's, 50's, 40's, if they smoke, drink alcohol eat wrong foods. No matter that they work physically the whole day or are slim. Hard work actually harmed many of them so they are partly disabled long time before they die.

Wait what?? You're comparing mining to recreational exercise?

 

[trophy33]

Wait what?? You're comparing mining to recreational exercise?

No. I am saying that moving a lot will not heal you from a bad food and lifestyle, which is what you are proposing all the time.

 

[trophy33]

Seed oils aren't toxic or inflammatory

In the Sydney Diet-Heart Study....The group consuming more vegetable oil had a 62% higher rate of death during the seven-year study compared to the group eating less vegetable oil.
Consuming vegetable oil increases your risk of death more than physical inactivity and heavy drinking, and for all the attention that red meat and sodium get, eating vegetable oil is 12 to 20 times more deadly...

In the Los Angeles Veterans Administration Study, the group of participants who increased fat from vegetable oil–while keeping total fat the same–were 82% more likely to die from cancer compared to the control group that didn’t increase fat from vegetable oil...

In another study, the Minnesota Coronary Experiment, participants who increased their consumption of corn oil and margarine had 86% more heart attacks, and for those aged 65 or older, a higher risk of death after four years

Death by Vegetable Oil: What the Studies Say

In a world without vegetable oil, we may be twenty pounds lighter, have half the amount of heart disease and cancer, live longer, think clearer, feel better, and be happier and less depressed.

www.jeffnobbs.com

In general, calorie per calorie, replacing saturated fat in the diet with polyunsaturated oils is a good strategy for lowering risk of heart disease.

"The recommendation to limit dietary saturated fatty acid (SFA) intake has persisted despite mounting evidence to the contrary. Most recent meta-analyses of randomized trials and observational studies found no beneficial effects of reducing SFA intake on cardiovascular disease (CVD) and total mortality, and instead found protective effects against stroke."

https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077

Of course, there's a big difference between oil on a salad or greens, and oil in a donut.

What makes junk food to be junk food? Seed oils, sugar, preservatives and frying. All these things are industrial, our ancestors did not do them, so our body cannot process them properly. A higher amount or their combination with each other is more deadly, indeed.

Also, what is the oil put on home-made salads or greens? Mostly extra virgin olive oil, which is made by just cold pressing the olives. If used in a rational amount, its like eating a handful of olives. Not too comparable to industrial seed oils which equal to eating thousands of seeds. However, about 50% of olive oil sold as extra virgin is faked. Also, EVOO is not used in sold salads, because its too expensive. And its certainly not used in donuts, only the cheapest junk is used in such products.

 

[timewerx]

No. I am saying that moving a lot will not heal you from a bad food and lifestyle, which is what you are proposing all the time.

I don't think I said those things in the context you're presenting.

Anyway, that's serious accusation. I would have expected you to report my posts to the mods if you truly believe what you're saying that I'm giving advice that may cause harm to others.

No matter that they work physically the whole day or are slim. Hard work actually harmed many of them so they are partly disabled long time before they die.

The context of your previous post is that "moving a lot" will also cause harm. But you used the example of mining work which doesn't make sense in our discussion about diet and exercise.

There's a huge difference between physical labor in mining work vs recreational exercise. >40 hrs/week in mining vs my 8 hrs/week exercise. That and the lack of structure in work-related physical labor increase probability of chronic injuries and inflammation.

 

[trophy33]

I don't think I said those things in the context you're presenting.

Anyway, that's serious accusation. I would have expected you to report my posts to the mods if you truly believe what you're saying that I'm giving advice that may cause harm to others.



The context of your previous post is that "moving a lot" will also cause harm. But you used the example of mining work which doesn't make sense in our discussion about diet and exercise.

There's a huge difference between physical labor in mining work vs recreational exercise. >40 hrs/week in mining vs my 8 hrs/week exercise. That and the lack of structure in work-related physical labor increase probability of chronic injuries and inflammation.

Because the topics of diet and health are sadly still controversial in our time, thanks to decades of lazy research and thanks to various manipulations and financing from international companies or religious organizations, reporting posts common people write about their opinions or experience, is not an option. Mods are neither scientists nor medical doctors and there is nothing against the rules to be opinionated or wrong.

If you do not like the example of people working physically, fine. Your choice. I know that moving a lot will not balance out a bad diet. Also, mining towns are not as much directly about mining today, as you seem to think. Most, if not all mines are already closed. But there is still a lot of various physical labor (in steelworks, ironworks and similar factories), there and people are mostly slim, although not living long lifes because of their terrible diet and bad environment.

Running for hours, too much resistance training, various contact sports and other forms of non-work activities can have similar harmful impact as physical work. With wrong nutrition, various injuries and problems will come faster than without such intensive activity.