Vegetarianism is the only way...

[BondGirl]

....into heaven?

Have any of you heard this? What do you think of this?

 

[tinkerbell]

Did someone actually say this? This is so not true for so many reasons:

#1 Jesus ate fish

#2 This means that we have salvation by faith, not works

#3 The health message is not a message of salvation. The Bible does say that our bodies are the temple of God and that we must take care of them, but I'm sure there are some non-vegitarians who take better care of their bodies than vegetarians

Yes, I am a vegetarian for health purposes but it has nothing to do with me going to heaven or not.

 

[PaleHorse]

Did someone actually say this? This is so not true for so many reasons:

#1 Jesus ate fish

#2 This means that we have salvation by faith, not works

#3 The health message is not a message of salvation. The Bible does say that our bodies are the temple of God and that we must take care of them, but I'm sure there are some non-vegitarians who take better care of their bodies than non-vegetarians

Yes, I am a vegetarian for health purposes but it has nothing to do with me going to heaven or not.

Ditto on all points.

 

[seangoh]

I'll be surprised if someone actually said this. It just shows that that person doesn't understand what it means to be saved by grace through faith.

 

[Seraph1m]

....into heaven?
Have any of you heard this? What do you think of this?

Thankfully, vegetariamismis not salvific. Some people have suggested that it is, based on their understanding. However the example that Jesus gave us, before and after his resurrection, indicates to me in any event that it is not.

 

[smooze]

Ditto on all points.

your back?!!!!! what i said about organized religion i stand too....going to church to find favor in the eyes of man Forget it! lol how are you austin? I lost that linksey to the other forum!

 

[TrustAndObey]

Yikes! I've never heard anyone say you had to be a vegetarian to get to heaven so this is new to me.

 

[SassySDA]

Did someone actually say this? This is so not true for so many reasons:

#1 Jesus ate fish

#2 This means that we have salvation by faith, not works

#3 The health message is not a message of salvation. The Bible does say that our bodies are the temple of God and that we must take care of them, but I'm sure there are some non-vegitarians who take better care of their bodies than vegetarians

Yes, I am a vegetarian for health purposes but it has nothing to do with me going to heaven or not.

Where would anyone come up with THAT idea???

For one thing, God specified WHAT meat we could eat, not that we couldn't eat any.

 

[missiondocsda]

The writing of Ellen, even in vegetarianism, has impacted alot. THe church as a whole, or the central, has acknowledged her writing, called inspiration, yet the impact so far has not been always positive.

I remember a SDA church was raving about her false authentic information, no reliability, and I stopped the entire forum, by saying this,"Anyhow, she deserves no more, no less respect and dignity, as you do. College students, educated people, be discreetly in the manner we carry ourselves in talking and sharing, that reflect glory back to the kingdom we don't deserve. If Ellen g white doesn't lead you to Christ, don't we see ourselves (having more responsibility) leading others to Christ? "

Last Saturday I spent hours listening and talking to a non-SDA, a final yr student, we talked alot, and finally it hit the peak at the last 30 minutes, when he touched Ellen white. He commented she is the wound of the church, by all means, he will never attempt to work with ADventist after graduation.

No big fight, just a hug after the discussion, I appreciated alot.

However, i emphasized two keys in the discussion, without denying or acknowledging her, be a good reader, read with critical and analytical mind. If we don't read with these qualities, we never read. And worse still, we make alot of preassumed ideas and outrageous preposition against sb or sth we don't necessarily have to. Vegetarianism, is an example, and there are more.

If we want to share with others the goodness of hers, we need to do bit of education to the church, as we represent her, claiming her words, as equivalent or not to Paul's letter or whatsoever. Being in this church for 6 yrs, i acknowledge her, but how sad it is, to see the destructive directive forces from her writing, misread, and cause more unwanted impact to the wounded spirits who seek the mercy and glory of Christ the way, the truth.

Regards,
Jimmy

 

[Princessdi]

Being "born" into Adventism, believe me I heard this quite a lot and from the pulpit, no less. This was a very popular teaching and still is amongst some withing the denomination. I believe that is where we made our mistake. I have seen many "forced" into the vegetarian lifestyle when they really couldn't afford it(we all know how expensive that veggi meat is)and subsequently left the church, because it became too difficult to keep that rigid list od do's and don'ts.

Newer [Adventist]members, "just keep on living"(as the old folks say), and you will come across a whole lot of things that will leave you speechless, but said in all sincerity.

 

[Seraph1m]

The writing of Ellen, even in vegetarianism, has impacted alot. THe church as a whole, or the central, has acknowledged her writing, called inspiration, yet the impact so far has not been always positive...

However, i emphasized two keys in the discussion, without denying or acknowledging her, be a good reader, read with critical and analytical mind. If we don't read with these qualities, we never read. And worse still, we make alot of preassumed ideas and outrageous preposition against sb or sth we don't necessarily have to. Vegetarianism, is an example, and there are more.

If we want to share with others the goodness of hers, we need to do bit of education to the church, as we represent her, claiming her words, as equivalent or not to Paul's letter or whatsoever. Being in this church for 6 yrs, i acknowledge her, but how sad it is, to see the destructive directive forces from her writing, misread, and cause more unwanted impact to the wounded spirits who seek the mercy and glory of Christ the way, the truth.

Regards,
Jimmy

Jimmy, you have made some very valid points. It is however the gospel of Christ Jesus and the goodness of God we must share with others. EGW has been dead for what 100yrs? With that said, please bear in mind that she can not be blamed for the way others have misrepresented many of the things she has stated. I have always encourage others to read the scriptures prayerfully and critically, asking for guidance and understanding from the Holy Spirit. That is exactly what she encouraged everyone to do, thus one would not have a need to rely on her work. The Holy Spirit is more than able to open our understanding. We simply need to learn to listen and be receptive to Him when He does so.

Peace

 

[moicherie]

Brought up in the system so heard that too along with, flee the cities, wear hats (ladies only), wear a tie (men only), must kneel in church for prayer, don't give me my tithe envelope in the church only outside and all the other add ons to salvation some Adventist espouse....Jesus paid it all folks so some of us need to stop buying the cheap stuff.......

 

[TrustAndObey]

Being "born" into Adventism, believe me I heard this quite a lot and from the pulpit, no less. This was a very popular teaching and still is amongst some withing the denomination. I believe that is where we made our mistake. I have seen many "forced" into the vegetarian lifestyle when they really couldn't afford it(we all know how expensive that veggi meat is)and subsequently left the church, because it became too difficult to keep that rigid list od do's and don'ts.

Newer [Adventist]members, "just keep on living"(as the old folks say), and you will come across a whole lot of things that will leave you speechless, but said in all sincerity.

Why is it I'm only recognized as a babe when it comes to my time in the church? LOL I'm a babe in Christ, period. Don't make me whip out the "millstone around the neck" verse again.

Austin and I are both in our mid-thirties but the funny thing is that we hang out with much older Adventists. I'd say our best friends in our church family are some of the oldest ones there. Seriously our favorite couple to go do things with are both in their seventies and have been Adventist for many, many, many, many years. No one we fellowship with (and again, we mostly fellowship with older couples) has ever said anything about even being completely vegetarian, let alone that getting us to heaven!

HEALTH is emphasized in our church, not vegetarianism! Now true at pot luck there are only vegetarian dishes but that's to cater to the majority. There are still a lot of people in our church that openly admit to eating clean meats.

 

[Princessdi]

LOL!!! Just wanted to let to give you a heads up about some of the things you might hear along the way.


...mid thirties....yes those were good years! LOL!!!

Why is it I'm only recognized as a babe when it comes to my time in the church? LOL I'm a babe in Christ, period. Don't make me whip out the "millstone around the neck" verse again.

Austin and I are both in our mid-thirties but the funny thing is that we hang out with much older Adventists. I'd say our best friends in our church family are some of the oldest ones there. Seriously our favorite couple to go do things with are both in their seventies and have been Adventist for many, many, many, many years. No one we fellowship with (and again, we mostly fellowship with older couples) has ever said anything about even being completely vegetarian, let alone that getting us to heaven!

HEALTH is emphasized in our church, not vegetarianism! Now true at pot luck there are only vegetarian dishes but that's to cater to the majority. There are still a lot of people in our church that openly admit to eating clean meats.

 

[tall73]

Yeah, the truth is a number of SDA's do believe this. And the idea is not quite as simple as some would think. They are fairly nuanced in their presentation. It is an extension of our view of the interplay between truth and duty, and especially reflects our understanding of the Sabbath etc.

Note, I am not saying I agree with it. I think the Bible is clear that vegetarianism has nothing to do with salvation.

Here is the general argument.

A. God revealed the vegetarian diet as best, most consistent with health.

B. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

C. If you reject what is best for the temple you are defiling it.

D. If you continually resist Holy Spirit inspired truth you are pushing God away.

E. Once you know the truth about vegetarianism being of God you are accountable if you don't do it.

Now as can be seen we use these general arguments with the Sabbath etc. all the time to say it WILL be an issue of salvation in the end time. We say it is of God, that it is resisted, that we should act on the truth we know etc.

So the vegetarian diet question is an extension of our views on rejecting or accepting truth.

Now as a general rule I agree that

A. It is bad to resist the conviction of the Spirit
B. We should act on what we know.
C. Vegetarianism is a good thing, on the whole.

But does that mean that we should take the interpretation to the extreme that we are saved by vegetarianism? In my estimation no. But in the hardliner's estimation, yes. To do otherwise is to rationalize it away.

Incidentally, I told her not to but the wifey just brought home a big Dairy Queen Blizzard. Now while it doesn't have meat, I am feeling a bit guilty eating it after writing all this! So do I REALLY think I am not saved by diet? haha. Anyway.

By the way, some people would also say that you are doomed if you know better and eat cheese. So it is not just vegetarianism.

The real question underlying the whole issue is at what point do we reject the Holy Spirit, hurt our conscience etc. by rejecting what we know to be right?

 

[Princessdi]

LOL!!! Ok, you and the Blizzard!

The major difference I can see with the doctrine of diet and that of the Sabbath is that God actually give a clean meat diet to Noah, we enforcing it with the COI. BTW, if he wanted to change it, I think it would have been done when Jesus was here. Some hard liners seem to be oblivious to tha fact that Jesus foloow the dietary laws as given toe the COI, and He was not the first SDA vegan. There is on other day which God blesed and sactified.

Right Tall, if you listen to some, you only only have water to drink. Like I siad I have seen many leave the church because it was too difficult to feed their families on this diet that was supposed to get them to Heaven. It is just sad. At some point we will learn that it is about relationship.

Yeah, the truth is a number of SDA's do believe this. And the idea is not quite as simple as some would think. They are fairly nuanced in their presentation. It is an extension of our view of the interplay between truth and duty, and especially reflects our understanding of the Sabbath etc.

Note, I am not saying I agree with it. I think the Bible is clear that vegetarianism has nothing to do with salvation.

Here is the general argument.

A. God revealed the vegetarian diet as best, most consistent with health.

B. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

C. If you reject what is best for the temple you are defiling it.

D. If you continually resist Holy Spirit inspired truth you are pushing God away.

E. Once you know the truth about vegetarianism being of God you are accountable if you don't do it.

Now as can be seen we use these general arguments with the Sabbath etc. all the time to say it WILL be an issue of salvation in the end time. We say it is of God, that it is resisted, that we should act on the truth we know etc.

So the vegetarian diet question is an extension of our views on rejecting or accepting truth.

Now as a general rule I agree that

A. It is bad to resist the conviction of the Spirit
B. We should act on what we know.
C. Vegetarianism is a good thing, on the whole.

But does that mean that we should take the interpretation to the extreme that we are saved by vegetarianism? In my estimation no. But in the hardliner's estimation, yes. To do otherwise is to rationalize it away.

Incidentally, I told her not to but the wifey just brought home a big Dairy Queen Blizzard. Now while it doesn't have meat, I am feeling a bit guilty eating it after writing all this! So do I REALLY think I am not saved by diet? haha. Anyway.

By the way, some people would also say that you are doomed if you know better and eat cheese. So it is not just vegetarianism.

 

[tall73]

Brought up in the system so heard that too along with, flee the cities, wear hats (ladies only), wear a tie (men only), must kneel in church for prayer, don't give me my tithe envelope in the church only outside and all the other add ons to salvation some Adventist espouse....Jesus paid it all folks so some of us need to stop buying the cheap stuff.......

Lol, I once attended a church in a town with the only real buildings being two churches and a baitshop/lawn mower repair/ general store. That day the sermon was on fleeing the cities!

Hats...yeah, we covered that one, in the Bible, but I doubt a salvation issue.

Ties...well now I heard a conference administrator give a stirring speech on the similarities between Sunday and ties:

a. People do it because everyone else does
b. People do it because it has always been done that way
c. pagan origin.

But yes, even a few years back at our church we had members telling people they couldn't come to church without a suit on.

Kneel for prayer....yeah, application of the EGW statement on the issue to an elder at Battle Creek.

Tithe envelopes...heard announcements should be given outside of church too.

 

[tall73]

LOL!!! Ok, you and the Blizzard!

The major difference I can see with the doctrine of diet and that of the Sabbath is that God actually give a clean meat diet to Noah, we enforcing it with the COI. BTW, if he wanted to change it, I think it would have been done when Jesus was here. Some hard liners seem to be oblivious to tha fact that Jesus foloow the dietary laws as given toe the COI, and He was not the first SDA vegan. There is on other day which God blesed and sactified.

Right Tall, if you listen to some, you only only have water to drink. Like I siad I have seen many leave the church because it was too difficult to feed their families on this diet that was supposed to get them to Heaven. It is just sad. At some point we will learn that it is about relationship.

Well I will say one thing, that blizzard was good good good!

It was some french silk type with little chocolate chunks, pieces of pie crust etc.

Anyway, I wouldn't be so sure that Jesus wasn't a vegetarian. Check out this site PETA site!

http://www.jesusveg.com/

aw man, they took down the picture of Jesus with that orange slice halo. That was the best! ...found it!

Oh, and he also was a raw food only guy:
http://www.soystache.com/jesus.htm

But then, that doesn't explain why God instituted animal sacrifice. PETA folks don't seem to big on that one either.

 

[Princessdi]

Now, I have never heard the one about giving the tithe outside of the church building. Now, we did/do have people who believe you can "pay" anything on Sabbath as long as it is in a itthe envelope. Hehehe!!!

Ties are pagan, too?! LOL!!!!

Lol, I once attended a church in a town with the only real buildings being two churches and a baitshop/lawn mower repair/ general store. That day the sermon was on fleeing the cities!

Hats...yeah, we covered that one, in the Bible, but I doubt a salvation issue.

Ties...well now I heard a conference administrator give a stirring speech on the similarities between Sunday and ties:

a. People do it because everyone else does
b. People do it because it has always been done that way
c. pagan origin.

But yes, even a few years back at our church we had members telling people they couldn't come to church without a suit on.

Kneel for prayer....yeah, application of the EGW statement on the issue to an elder at Battle Creek.

Tithe envelopes...heard announcements should be given outside of church too.

 

[tall73]

Now, I have never heard the one about giving the tithe outside of the church building. Now, we did/do have people who believe you can "pay" anything on Sabbath as long as it is in a itthe envelope. Hehehe!!!

Ties are pagan, too?! LOL!!!!

Yeah, fertility symbol, or so some claim, I will let you piece the rest of it together.

Pagan or not though, I don't know too many guys who are crazy about actually wearing them.