Vaccine - Take, wait, never + political position + right - middle - left

[cow451]

Because wearing a mask in public is the same as being imprisoned...

Next thing you know they will be super gluing masks to our faces!

 

[cow451]

Only that certain parts of the population have been conditioned to give up their freedom and live in perpetual lockdown as ordered by the government that is there to maintain freedom.
It's a true statement: "All social engineering is preceeded by verbal engineering".

I need to take an antihistamine…. So much straw today, some might say

 

[The happy Objectivist]

I think we need a little levity to counteract all the doom and gloom. And by the way, that was a new one for me - Biden actually being part of some secret cabal that released the virus. Working with Trump?

I didn't say that he was part of a cabal that released the virus. I'm saying that he seemed to have known it was coming.

 

[The happy Objectivist]

You say the numbers are highly inflated. I have a daughter who works in a hospital and suffered shock from all the dying patients, young and old. In our church people have lost parents and friends. To have a family member there and gone within 5 days is quite shocking, when the common thread is Covid. How much do you value those dear to you? How angry would you be against the politicians if they could do something about it and did nothing?

If the hospitals were totally overrun, normal infections and trauma that would not normally be life threatening would become so. It is easy when the actions stopped this happening in the UK yet over 100,000 have died, its no joke, no scam, no exaggeration. The UK is probably close to the worst infection rate in the world, because we are so international and so relaxed and there is so much group mixing. Most of my family is now double vaccinated, so there is some real relief.

I have little sympathy for those who say no the vaccine. They will be isolated and shunned, because the risk to everyone far outweighs the right of the individual to refuse to comply. It is like everyone smoking and then being told the cost to the community is too high, so unless you stop you will lose privileges. It is the right of a society to behave like this, because it is about collective responsibility and debt one to another. If by not doing this people die, how will you feel? At 60 50% or so of the population have serious conditions which make them vulnerable. If I can show love to them by being vacinnated I will. Its that simple. God bless you

My wife had to have emergency surgery during the height of the pandemic. The hospital was practically empty, most of the nurses laid off and elective surgeries canceled. Yes,
it's tragic that people have died. And I'm sure there are many heartbreaking stories but this virus has a 99.97 percent survival rate. It seems absurd to take an experimental treatment that no one knows the long range effects of with a death rate that small. I don't believe the government will make it mandatory and they won't have to. It will become increasingly hard to go anywhere and do anything without proof of vaccination. That's how it will be accomplished. The other side of the picture is the life-changing harm this has done to millions of people like my niece who now has heart problems because of it.

How many of those 100,000 died solely of the virus. The CDC says that 6% of the total deaths are the result of the virus alone.

 

[partinobodycular]

...but this virus has a 99.97 percent survival rate.

Source please.

 

[Bradskii]

I didn't say that he was part of a cabal that released the virus. I'm saying that he seemed to have known it was coming.

Ah, so he knew but didn't tell anyone. He kept it secret from us for some nefarious political reason. Which is pretty much the definition of cabal.

 

[partinobodycular]

Did you know that in 2020 42 million babies died despite the anti-abortionists efforts to stop it?

Ah, I didn't realize that it was a math problem. So it's just that 4 million dead from Covid doesn't reach your threshold of care. Out of curiosity, just how many deaths does it take before the number of dead outweighs your right not to be inconvenienced.

And you do not seem to care about the young men who experience cardiac arrest and die from a vaccine that is against a viruse that is not a threat to them

Ok, now I'm really confused. 5208 people have died from the vaccine, that's 0.0017%, and you're outraged, yet for the 4 million that have died from Covid not a hint of concern.

There are are those who experience nervous changes they will never recover from, young mothers of children. Such hardness of heart towards young adults whose lives are ruined from a needless vaccine.

Use a double standard much?

On the one hand you pooh-pooh the danger of the Covid virus because only 2% of those infected die. I guess those who don't die, don't matter, because you don't even acknowledge their long term health problems.

Of course you're outraged by the rare side effects of the vaccinated.

Why do I get the feeling that all this indignation isn't really about the danger to others, it's about the imposition on you. You just don't like people telling you what to do, and pointing at some supposed inequalities is your way of rationalizing your resentment.

 

[The happy Objectivist]

Ah, so he knew but didn't tell anyone. He kept it secret from us for some nefarious political reason. Which is pretty much the definition of cabal.

Possibly. I wouldn't put anything past him or any politician. They lie to us all the time. Remember Rahm Immanuel.
“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”

 

[Bradskii]

Possibly. I wouldn't put anything past him or any politician. They lie to us all the time. Remember Rahm Immanuel.
“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”

So Trump was part of a Republican cabal and Bidden a Democratic one. With the same ends, oddly enough. Or were they part of a single cabal?

 

[Sodafox]

Ah, I didn't realize that it was a math problem. So it's just that 4 million dead from Covid doesn't reach your threshold of care. Out of curiosity, just how many deaths does it take before the number of dead outweighs your right not to be inconvenienced.

I know you aren't talking to me but I'll answer anyway. I have two conditions, either of which can be met, so that should make it easy, right?

1. I was going to say the birth vs. death rate but, while you can find out how many births there were in 2020 with a simple Google search (similar to the result you get looking at the population of a country or the world, or even the death rate in 2019), you don't get the same ease with the death rate in 2020. Google seems to purposely avoid a simple number and instead provides articles about different KINDS of death but not a simple number. Hm. Weird. Wonder why that is.

2. Since lock-downs are in question, the years of lives lost. So, Covid has a 2% rate of death, so 98% survive. Let's be really generous and say average life expectancy is 90 years. Majority of deaths are over 60. So we're protecting 60 years vs 98 years. Again, let's say every once in a while a 20 year old dies. IF, and BIG IF, for every 60+ year old there's a 20 year old, we'll break even.

Those are my parameters to not be "inconvenienced" aka take a vaccine with a non-zero chance to either kill me or leave me with long term effects.

**That's not including people who committed suicide, didn't find a partner, or get proper medical care during all this (since it was "non-essential")

 

[Tanj]

1. I was going to say the birth vs. death rate but, while you can find out how many births there were in 2020 with a simple Google search (similar to the result you get looking at the population of a country or the world, or even the death rate in 2019), you don't get the same ease with the death rate in 2020. Google seems to purposely avoid a simple number and instead provides articles about different KINDS of death but not a simple number. Hm. Weird. Wonder why that is.

Is it because you are absolutely dreadful at using google?

Let Me Google That

From the 2nd google link (for me):
Provisional Mortality Data — United States, 2020
In 2020, approximately 3,358,814 deaths† occurred in the United States.

Counter question: Does how completely and utterly wrong you were about this very simple task give you pause to wonder how wrong you might be about your opinions of this virus?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Next thing you know they will be super gluing masks to our faces!

Or ask some to commit suicide to reduce carbon emissions.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I know you aren't talking to me but I'll answer anyway. I have two conditions, either of which can be met, so that should make it easy, right?

1. I was going to say the birth vs. death rate but, while you can find out how many births there were in 2020 with a simple Google search (similar to the result you get looking at the population of a country or the world, or even the death rate in 2019), you don't get the same ease with the death rate in 2020. Google seems to purposely avoid a simple number and instead provides articles about different KINDS of death but not a simple number. Hm. Weird. Wonder why that is.

2. Since lock-downs are in question, the years of lives lost. So, Covid has a 2% rate of death, so 98% survive. Let's be really generous and say average life expectancy is 90 years. Majority of deaths are over 60. So we're protecting 60 years vs 98 years. Again, let's say every once in a while a 20 year old dies. IF, and BIG IF, for every 60+ year old there's a 20 year old, we'll break even.

Those are my parameters to not be "inconvenienced" aka take a vaccine with a non-zero chance to either kill me or leave me with long term effects.

**That's not including people who committed suicide, didn't find a partner, or get proper medical care during all this (since it was "non-essential")

It is just about impossible to get real news from google on covid. If we look at those around us, it’s dismissed as “anecdotal.” If I told them that in our city, during the height of the “pandemic” ICU was at max 60% capacity, that’s just “anecdotal” on the level with a fairy tale. Youtube is not as easily cancelled so those often scientific reports (until edited) have more. There’s too many for the powers that be to delete. But the control of information tells a bigger story.

 

[partinobodycular]

It is just about impossible to get real news from google on covid... Youtube is not as easily cancelled so those often scientific reports (until edited) have more. There’s too many for the powers that be to delete. But the control of information tells a bigger story.

Maybe you didn't get the news, but Google owns Youtube. And the idea that they couldn't control the content on Youtube if they wanted to suggests to me that you've never actually had a channel on Youtube, and you're not real clear on how all this technology stuff works huh. Ah, but this must be right, because you heard it on Youtube. And what the heck, if it keeps the fantasy alive...

 

[Sodafox]

Is it because you are absolutely dreadful at using google?

Let Me Google That

From the 2nd google link (for me):
Provisional Mortality Data — United States, 2020
In 2020, approximately 3,358,814 deaths† occurred in the United States.

Counter question: Does how completely and utterly wrong you were about this very simple task give you pause to wonder how wrong you might be about your opinions of this virus?

Funny! Notice how on your "let me Google that", the bold number is from 2018? Not 2020?

*Edit: for fun I tried with 2019 and Google didn't bold that number either. I guess whatever algorithm Google uses needs more time or articles before it does that?

Also, trying to invalidate my argument over that? Don't listen to me then! Just look at the numbers.

For anyone who didn't look themselves, the births in the US for 2020 was 3.6 million.

3.6 births > 3.3 deaths

That said, I'm curious how births will shake out in 2021. On one hand you had people stuck at home maybe without much else to do, but on the other hand people put their relationship plans on hold to see how this all shakes out.

Probably less deaths to car accidents too but on mobile it's tough jumping around looking for that stuff.

**Car deaths probably minimal: Fatality Facts 2019: State by state

In before "there would've been more deaths of it weren't for the lockdowns!" Maybe. Or maybe the people with 2+ other conditions would've died from one of those or even the common flu.

 

[cow451]

Or ask some to commit suicide to reduce carbon emissions.

You are aware that carbon emissions are not the topic here, correct?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You are aware that carbon emissions are not the topic here, correct?

You are aware that the governments are asking people to believe them and risk their health for no gain, right?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Funny! Notice how on your "let me Google that", the bold number is from 2018? Not 2020?

*Edit: for fun I tried with 2019 and Google didn't bold that number either. I guess whatever algorithm Google uses needs more time or articles before it does that?

Also, trying to invalidate my argument over that? Don't listen to me then! Just look at the numbers.

For anyone who didn't look themselves, the births in the US for 2020 was 3.6 million.

3.6 births > 3.3 deaths

That said, I'm curious how births will shake out in 2021. On one hand you had people stuck at home maybe without much else to do, but on the other hand people put their relationship plans on hold to see how this all shakes out.

Probably less deaths to car accidents too but on mobile it's tough jumping around looking for that stuff.

**Car deaths probably minimal: Fatality Facts 2019: State by state

In before "there would've been more deaths of it weren't for the lockdowns!" Maybe. Or maybe the people with 2+ other conditions would've died from one of those or even the common flu.

Time will tell if the vaccine programs have fallouts that the whole world’s population regrets. The governments will not regret it, most likely.

 

[cow451]

You are aware that the governments are asking people to believe them and risk their health for no gain, right?

No they are not. At least not my government, anyways.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No they are not. At least not my government, anyways.

You do not have to get the vaccine? That is not what appears to be the case in your country. There are article about people who lose their jobs or take the vaccine.