Vaccinations

[gracechick]

I heard on the national news that the government is churning out swineflu vaccination serum. The question is will it need to be given in 2 doses as appossed to the standard one dose that has been followed for flu recent shots.

What got my attention also was the government making the sflu shot mandatory. I would think that would be rather impossible to do, but I found myself irritated that someone else is outhere making such a decision for me and my family. Now I would understand if there appeared to be a true outbreak, but spots here and there and most seem to recover. I did hear one source say that no more people have died from this flu then do the regular flu strains we see each winter.

Also how are the drug companies involved here? What would they rake in for mandatory shots or at the very least pumped press about the dangers of contracting the flu?

Any medical or research people out there care to help me understand some of this as I am as clueless as most of the laymen population about the flu and if it is possibly of an engineered source.

 

[Matthewj1985]

Pick up a copy of "The Hot Zone" and "The Devil in the Freezer". It takes one, single conspiracy theorist keeping his family from getting immunizations like this to literally reinfect and entire population of people. Public health is most definitely a place where I want government to be and this is coming from a libertarian. I don't care if you that to give the immunization (granted, H1N1 doesn't scare me that much at this point) at gunpoint, some things are bigger than your rights to kill yourself and your kids (not speaking of you personally).

I know that the government awards contracts for vaccine makers and beyond that they are generally tight lipped about it (for good reason).

I would be curious to know where you are getting you info thought. I can't imagine anything being mandatory for everyone other than a smallpox vaccine.

 

[gracechick]

I did honestly hear this mentioned on I believe a ABC news and could not recall anytime where the word mandatory was mentioned. If you would like I suppose you could google it.

And no I am not some crackpot, but I do believe people need to be informed that they should consider what and why a serum is injected into their person. I had someone who works with autistic kids and has for years tell me that she found a certain booster shot tended to have autistic symptoms surface.

So shouldn't this be tracked and studied and then have a genestudy done to discover what may be causing said results. How is it that all the government wants you to do is accept everything is for your benefit. Well truth is it is not. Sometimes it is the for the power people and sometimes the cash.

Remember there was a new government Food Pyramid introduced about 10 years ago that turned it completely upside down? Instead of meats and such being listed as what should be consumed the most grains, vegetables, and fruits were front and center. Apparently the meat and dairy people threw a coniption along with other complaints so the pyamid went back to it's original form.

You feel threatened that I question forcing people to vaccinate? Why is that? I'm saying pray and seek the truth and make Informed decisions. And yeah I wish I knew what is behind this type of governmental push, but I don't. Only the Lord knows the whole story.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I am just thankful that I don’t live in the US. They have been contaminating vaccines for many years with mercury, this is what causes the autism in children. Tamiflu has links to the good’ol boys in the Bush administration.. if you want to call that an administration. I would call it a disaster and the end of america.
If the same feudalistic SoBs over here try and force the taking of vaccines.. I for one will not take anything against my will.. I have taken vaccines in the past to protect against the tropical diseases, for travel.
Your government has even got it so that they don’t have to label GM in foods.

 

[Drekkan85]

No, Cosmicgoldfish. You're wrong. It's rather simple. You, are, wrong.

There's no room for wiggling around, no room for grey. There's a right and a wrong. How do we know?

First the claim was mercury in vaccines caused autism. Until you look at other countries that used similar vaccines without the mercury tainting and had similar changes in autism. This held true that even after the US cracked down on the use of a mercury like preservative in vaccines the rate was uneffected.

Aha say some frauds like Wakefield (oh yes, he's no being investigated for completely fabricating his results, it wasn't just bad science/inability, it was wilful fraud) - it's the 3-in-1 vaccine. Evidence against that? Japan. Japan stopped giving the 3-in-1 MMR vaccine a long time ago. Result? Same rate in Autism cases as the US/Europe that continued with MMR as standard.

Ahh, say the truly retrograde, so it's the vaccines in general! Except we have Denmark. The Danish study used about 400,000 samples. Denmark is fantastic - it tracks those both in and out of the vaccination system throughout life. Again, autism rates were identical between the vaccinated and unvaccinated kids.

So there we have it - fiction (vaccines cause autism) is disproven by the power of science.

***
It's worth noting there is ONE case where MMR or really any vaccine can and has caused autistic like symptoms. It's a rare genetic condition that causes the body to react to any infection. The problem is that this is literally any infection, so the chances of the child escaping infancy without the associated brain damage is non-existent.

***
Finally, much of this is because people don't understand what the world was like before vaccines. Nothing in the history of man has saved so many lives and so much human suffering as vaccination (the only thing that comes close are the famines that have been prevented by the adoption of modern farming and genetic modification of crops to improve yield).

Really, if you dislike vaccines so much let's give you some of that smallpox. I'm sure your homeopathy will save you. Just make sure it's in a sealed room so idiocy like homeopathy doesn't end up hurting the rest of us like it is now.

ETA: I'm really not trying to insult any posters here - merely the idea that vaccines are bad for you when they've saved so many lives and the only arguments against them are emotional arguments from lay people.

 

[gracechick]

I didn't say all were bad for people I was simply saying be wary of how money and other factors may affect the true quality of what is given. And as for their pure altruistic studies have you by chance seen the history of some of their research? As in using children in an orphange as guniea pigs to study differing effects of innoculations.
Btw as for homeopathy most of it isn't a joke. My sis has been an RN for decades and can tell stories of what the drugs and drug companies may do to uninformed patients. And she does not receive the flu shot each year, but takes care of her health and uses supplements and vitamins she researches.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

You feel threatened that I question forcing people to vaccinate? Why is that? I'm saying pray and seek the truth and make Informed decisions. And yeah I wish I knew what is behind this type of governmental push, but I don't. Only the Lord knows the whole story.

I totally agree. First of all when they come out with new medications/vaccinations it takes years before they discover "OPS well this causes this, so now you have to live with this".

Example: I took my daughters to go get the gardasil vaccination and their peditrician said at this time they are refusing to give the vaccinations. They are waiting for the vaccinations to be on the market for a few years to see what the end result is. So thats exactly what I am doing.

Some rush out and get these injections without fully knowing what effect it could have on the body years later.

And if the Government is going to mandate the vaccinations, are they also going to foot the bill? Highly doubt it!

 

[Matthewj1985]

I did honestly hear this mentioned on I believe a ABC news and could not recall anytime where the word mandatory was mentioned. If you would like I suppose you could google it.

And no I am not some crackpot, but I do believe people need to be informed that they should consider what and why a serum is injected into their person. I had someone who works with autistic kids and has for years tell me that she found a certain booster shot tended to have autistic symptoms surface.

The autism things is an urban legend, can you point me to ANY peer reviewed study showing a link? ALL the science points in the opposite direction. Also I was not assuming you were a crack pot, just making the point that most of the time stuff like this is rejected for religious reasons. Right now Polio vaccines are being rejected by Muslim clerics in Northern Nigeria because they believe it is a plot by Christians to sterilize young Muslim boys. For this reason a whole new generation will have to deal with the devastating effects of polio. While I tend to be pretty "live and let live" on religion, this is one place I will not budge an inch. Again pick up the books I named, they will really open your eyes about how bad a viral outbreak can be, the first deals with Marburg and Ebola and the second with Smallpox. I can't see how any same person would rely on prayer and religion when there is a vaccine that we know works.

I will concide that the smallpox vaccine, if administered to every American today would kill between 300 and 1000 people. That being said we have not really worked on the smallpox virus for 20+ years since we thought it was only found in 2 labs on earth. In reality the Russians were weaponizing the stuff and producing it by the ton. To this day they can not account for a LARGE amount of the stuff and literally on stamp sized scab from one person, released in a large city could sweep the globe in a number of weeks.

So shouldn't this be tracked and studied and then have a genestudy done to discover what may be causing said results. How is it that all the government wants you to do is accept everything is for your benefit. Well truth is it is not. Sometimes it is the for the power people and sometimes the cash.

It has been studied and the results are in, if you really want me to I will google them later but you are just as capable as I am. The problem is that we are all different people are there is no one magic bullet. A small number of people in a given population will show side effects from literally anything. Keep in mind though that your risks of complications from the normal "baby" shots given pales in comparison to the risk you take hopping behind the wheel of a car, or eating food from a street vendor. I agree that more research is never a bad thing but the anti-vaccination crowd shows the same level of ignorace as the creationist crowd but they put us ALL at risk with theirs.

Remember there was a new government Food Pyramid introduced about 10 years ago that turned it completely upside down? Instead of meats and such being listed as what should be consumed the most grains, vegetables, and fruits were front and center. Apparently the meat and dairy people threw a coniption along with other complaints so the pyamid went back to it's original form.

I am not saying that government is always right, there has been much independant research done on this and also government is not the ones making the vaccine. As calous as it might sound, in the event of a smallpox outbreak (assuming it is not one of the vaccine resistant, bioengineered strains) in the US, 300-1000 people is such a miniscule drop in the bucket that I can't begin to fathom it. I would GLADLY sacrifice my entire family if it means that we could stop a virus that would literally kill off 90-100% of humanity.

You feel threatened that I question forcing people to vaccinate? Why is that? I'm saying pray and seek the truth and make Informed decisions. And yeah I wish I knew what is behind this type of governmental push, but I don't. Only the Lord knows the whole story.

Prayer is not the answer when it comes to science. This is the reason stuff like polio is still around. People decide that their prayers hold more weight than the rock solid science.

I feel threatened because I have read about the worst of the worst in the virus world. The Hot Zone is not mandatory reading in many high schools and I think it should be. Like I said this kind of ignorance is dangerous not only to the people who are being ignorant but to the rest of us.

 

[Drekkan85]

It's late here, I'm going to hit the hay. But before I do, you realise homeopathy has no effect whatsoever right? Now, herbal medicine has some - that's because most of the herbs used have since been refined into medicine to make them more effective, but the herbs still will work. Homeopathy is essentially, drinking water. Yes, that's right. You're drinking water and that's it.

How much of a joke is it? At every lecture he gives James Randi takes a different brand of "homeopathic" sleeping pills and downs the entire package without any effect. Not even a little bit drowsy.

Why? Because they're water. And people will spend money on it because a fool and his money are soon parted.

 

[gracechick]

My friend prayer and the wisdom of God is always a Christian's first resort.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

No, Cosmicgoldfish. You're wrong. It's rather simple. You, are, wrong.

There's no room for wiggling around, no room for grey. There's a right and a wrong. How do we know?

First the claim was mercury in vaccines caused autism. Until you look at other countries that used similar vaccines without the mercury tainting and had similar changes in autism. This held true that even after the US cracked down on the use of a mercury like preservative in vaccines the rate was uneffected.

Aha say some frauds like Wakefield (oh yes, he's no being investigated for completely fabricating his results, it wasn't just bad science/inability, it was wilful fraud) - it's the 3-in-1 vaccine. Evidence against that? Japan. Japan stopped giving the 3-in-1 MMR vaccine a long time ago. Result? Same rate in Autism cases as the US/Europe that continued with MMR as standard.

Ahh, say the truly retrograde, so it's the vaccines in general! Except we have Denmark. The Danish study used about 400,000 samples. Denmark is fantastic - it tracks those both in and out of the vaccination system throughout life. Again, autism rates were identical between the vaccinated and unvaccinated kids.

So there we have it - fiction (vaccines cause autism) is disproven by the power of science.

***
It's worth noting there is ONE case where MMR or really any vaccine can and has caused autistic like symptoms. It's a rare genetic condition that causes the body to react to any infection. The problem is that this is literally any infection, so the chances of the child escaping infancy without the associated brain damage is non-existent.

***
Finally, much of this is because people don't understand what the world was like before vaccines. Nothing in the history of man has saved so many lives and so much human suffering as vaccination (the only thing that comes close are the famines that have been prevented by the adoption of modern farming and genetic modification of crops to improve yield).

Really, if you dislike vaccines so much let's give you some of that smallpox. I'm sure your homeopathy will save you. Just make sure it's in a sealed room so idiocy like homeopathy doesn't end up hurting the rest of us like it is now.

ETA: I'm really not trying to insult any posters here - merely the idea that vaccines are bad for you when they've saved so many lives and the only arguments against them are emotional arguments from lay people.

I will concede that I could be wrong about this. It is not something that I have any speciality in.. All I am reporting, is a belief in the UK population that the vaccine given to children for mumps etc was believed to cause autism.
.. but what we note is that people no longer trust the government, and for good reason, they have been proved to have been lying about everything else.. Iraq for one.
Something is causing a rise in autism in children, now perhaps it’s not vaccines, but something is doing it.. and like I said.. I don’t know what particular thing is responsible for it.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

We need to weigh up the benefits of a vaccine, say for older people and seasonal flu.. against the possibility that they could actually succumb to the flu and die.. and then think that the vaccines were believed to be contaminated, as you hear that various studies have been done by various groups, Catholic and Muslim in parts of Africa/Philippines.. demonstrating contamination of vaccines for eugenic purposes.
So it’s a difficult one.

 

[Matthewj1985]

I didn't say all were bad for people I was simply saying be wary of how money and other factors may affect the true quality of what is given. And as for their pure altruistic studies have you by chance seen the history of some of their research? As in using children in an orphange as guniea pigs to study differing effects of innoculations.

That is an ABSURD claim I would like you see you try and back up. The FDA has some SERIOUS stipulations on human trials.

Btw as for homeopathy most of it isn't a joke. My sis has been an RN for decades and can tell stories of what the drugs and drug companies may do to uninformed patients. And she does not receive the flu shot each year, but takes care of her health and uses supplements and vitamins she researches.

Maybe she needs to write a book. Homeopathy IS a joke, the dilution rates they talk about mean you are getting little more than the placebo effect. There is a reason it can't stand up to double blind tests.

 

[Matthewj1985]

I am just thankful that I don’t live in the US. They have been contaminating vaccines for many years with mercury, this is what causes the autism in children. Tamiflu has links to the good’ol boys in the Bush administration.. if you want to call that an administration. I would call it a disaster and the end of america.
If the same feudalistic SoBs over here try and force the taking of vaccines.. I for one will not take anything against my will.. I have taken vaccines in the past to protect against the tropical diseases, for travel.
Your government has even got it so that they don’t have to label GM in foods.

Ladies and gents, these are the types of people who pose a danger to ALL OF US.

 

[Matthewj1985]

I totally agree. First of all when they come out with new medications/vaccinations it takes years before they discover "OPS well this causes this, so now you have to live with this".

Example: I took my daughters to go get the gardasil vaccination and their peditrician said at this time they are refusing to give the vaccinations. They are waiting for the vaccinations to be on the market for a few years to see what the end result is. So thats exactly what I am doing.

Some rush out and get these injections without fully knowing what effect it could have on the body years later.

And if the Government is going to mandate the vaccinations, are they also going to foot the bill? Highly doubt it!

Do you know anything about FDA drug trials?

 

[Matthewj1985]

My friend prayer and the wisdom of God is always a Christian's first resort.

Prayer only goes so far. Do you realize the first Ebola outbreak happened to Nuns? Guess what, it killed them at the same rate it killed other, less pious people, 9 out of 10.

Prayer is all well and good but I think even you realize that a person would be insane to not seek medical attention with something easily curable.

 

[Matthewj1985]

I will concede that I could be wrong about this. It is not something that I have any speciality in.. All I am reporting, is a belief in the UK population that the vaccine given to children for mumps etc was believed to cause autism.
.. but what we note is that people no longer trust the government, and for good reason, they have been proved to have been lying about everything else.. Iraq for one.
Something is causing a rise in autism in children, now perhaps it’s not vaccines, but something is doing it.. and like I said.. I don’t know what particular thing is responsible for it.

There is ZERO evidence to support this claim. NONE, ZILCH, NADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Matthewj1985]

We need to weigh up the benefits of a vaccine, say for older people and seasonal flu.. against the possibility that they could actually succumb to the flu and die.. and then think that the vaccines were believed to be contaminated, as you hear that various studies have been done by various groups, Catholic and Muslim in parts of Africa/Philippines.. demonstrating contamination of vaccines for eugenic purposes.
So it’s a difficult one.

Studies? I would love to see them! The only thing I have ever seen are insane ramblings about how condoms don't prevent AIDS and how polio is a gift from Allah.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Do you know anything about FDA drug trials?

Actually I do know a little. I know it takes YEARS for drugs to be approved through FDA. But they truly don't know cause and effect of the drug on the human body until they start administering.

Let's take a look at FDA recall alerts

Index to Drug-Specific Information

 

[Matthewj1985]

Actually I do know a little. I know it takes YEARS for drugs to be approved through FDA. But they truly don't know cause and effect of the drug on the human body until they start administering.

Let's take a look at FDA recall alerts

Index to Drug-Specific Information

Look at those recall numbers versus drugs on the market that WORK. You are talking about single percentage points of failure.