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Vaccinations

jazzbird

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Some comments in the circumcision thread prompted me to post this question to you parents as well...(sorry I have so many questions :sorry: ) did anyone not vaccinate their children? We are concerned about the possible problems that may arise from this.

And while I'm on the subject, has anyone heard about the senate bill regarding vaccination rights? Supposedly its supposed to fight "terror." Right. Whatever. Our government really frightens me.

Vaccine activists are railing against a new Senate bill (S.3) entitled “Protecting America in the War on Terror Act of 2005.” Sponsored by Senators Bill Frist (R-TN) and Judd Gregg (R-NH), S.3 shields drug companies from liability for vaccines, limit states’ rights to regulate vaccines, and calls for a national vaccination tracking system. Many vaccine activists believe these provisions are paving the way for mass vaccination mandates that will be created and enforced at the federal, not the state, level.

Source: http://www.mothering.com/sections/action_alerts/march2005.html
 

sara elizabeth

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We had our first child vaccinated, just because that's the way its done, and it never occured to us to do otherwise. Then I started hearing things about it and looked into the whole idea. Our other three are not vaccinated.
It kind of is a hard decision to make. On the one hand we wanted to do everything in our power to protect our kids and on the other hand we didn't want to do something unneccesary that could cause harm. Some of the things that convinced us are:
1. The possible link between vaccinations and auto-immune diseases (cancer, luekemia, etc)
2. The possible link between vaccination and SIDS
3. The possible link to ADD and autism
Now, I realize that those are all unproven, but it seems like there is alot of evidence to support some of them.
Some that are proven are:
1. All the nasty ingredients in the vaccinations (do you really want to inject pig or monkey matter into your child?)
2. Most vaccinations only protect for 10-15 yrs. (some of these diseases are much more serious in adulthood, like mumps, and german measles, and that is about when the vaccination wears off!)
3. Alot of the diseases that we vaccinate against are not a big deal (most of our grandmothers had measles and mumps and say they were about like chicken pox was to us.)

Our kids have been very healthy, and we haven't regreted our decision.
If we lived in a country where medical care was not so easy to obtain we probably would choose to immunize. But, as it is we feel like it is better to treat a problem if it comes up than to possibly cause more problems (like cancer or SIDS) by trying to prevent something that they may never even encounter.

There are lots of conflicting ideas on this subject, so I would advise that you do lots of reading. I hope I don't sound to adamant about this, because I realize that we all as parents have to make the decision that feels right to us, and neither one is an easy choice to make.:)
 
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jazzbird

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Thanks for the input Sara. Even though some of those links are not proven, the possibility is enough to really scare me. If we look at the rise in ADD and Autism in recent years, it's gotta make you wonder. I really don't think I am a paranoid person, but I certainly want to do absolutely everything possible before conception, during pregnancy, during labor and birth, and once my children are in my arms, to avoid dangers to them.

Do you know of any good websites that are unbiased and weigh the pros and cons of both? I have read some good articles online, but most are from a very strong viewpoint.
 
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sara elizabeth

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This comes from the National Health Federation
What's in Vaccines?
Compiled by Dawn Winkler


This is a representative, not a comprehensive, list of the various types of vaccines.

Acel-Immune
DTaP
Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed
Lederle Laboratories
1-800-934-5556
produced using formaldehyde, thimerosal, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum
phosphate, polysorbate 80, gelatin

Act HIB
Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib) Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate
Connaught Laboratories
1-800-822-2463
produced using ammonium sulfate, formalin, sucrose, thimerosal
medium: semi-synthetic

Attenuvax
Measles Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co, Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolized gelatin
medium: chick embryo

DPT
Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed
SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals
1-800-366-8900 ext. 5231
produced using aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde, ammonium sulfate,
washed sheep red blood cells, glycerol, sodium chloride, thimerosal
medium: porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein

Energix-B
Hepatitis B
SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals
1-800-633-8900 ext. 5231
produced using aluminum hydroxide, thimerosal
medium: yeast (possibly 5% residual)

Havrix
Hepatitis A
SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals
1-800-633-8900 ext. 5231
produced using formalin, aluminum hydroxide, phenoxyethanol (antifreeze),


polysorbate 20, residual MRC5 proteins (from medium)
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Biavax
Rubella and Mumps Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co, Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolized gelatin
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

HibTiter
Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib)
Lederle Laboratories
1-800-934-5556
produced using polyribosylribitol, ammonium sulfate, thimerosal
medium: chemically defined, yeast based

Fluvirin
Influenza Virus Vaccine
Medeva Pharmaceuticals
1-888-MEDEVA
(716)274-5300
produced using embryonic fluid (chicken egg), neomycin, polymyxin,
thimerosal, betapropiolactone
medium: embryonic fluid (chicken egg)

FluShield
Influenza Virus Vaccine, Trivalent, Types A&B
Wyeth-Ayerst
1-800-934-5556
produced using gentamicin sulfate, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80,
tri(n)butylphosphate, thimerosal
medium: chick embryos

IPOL
Inactivated Polio Vaccine
Connaught Laboratories
1-800-822-2463
produced using 3 types of polio virus, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol
(antifreeze), neomycin, streptomycin, polymyxin B
medium: VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells

MMR
Measles Mumps Rubella Live Virus Vaccine
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using sorbitol, neomycin, hydrolyzed gelatin
mediums: M&M - chick embryo
Rubella - human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)



M-R-Vax
Measles and Rubella Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin
mediums: Measles - chick embryo
Rubella - human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Menomune
Meningococcal Polysaccharide Vaccine
Connaught Laboratories
1-800-822-2463
produced using thimerosal, lactose
medium: freeze dried polysaccharride antigens from Neisseria Meningitidis

Meruvax II
Rubella Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Mumpsvax
Mumps Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Orimune
Poliovirus Vaccine Live Oral Trivalent
Lederle Laboratories
1-800-934-5556
produced using 3 types of attenuated polioviruses, streptomycin,
neomycin, calf serum, sorbitol
medium: monkey kidney cell culture

Pneumovax
Pneumococcal Vaccine Polyvalent
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using phenol and capsular polysaccharides from the 23 most prevalent pneumococcal types

Imovax
Rabies Vaccine Adsorbed
Connaught Laboratories
1-800-822-2463
produced using human albumin, neomycin sulfate, phenol red indicator
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)



Rabies Vaccine Adsorbed
SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals
1-800-366-8900 ext. 5231
produced using betapropiolactone, aluminum phosphate, sodium
ethylmercurithiosalicylate (thimerosal), phenol red
medium: fetal rhesus monkey lung cells

Recombivax
Hepatitis B Vaccine Recombinant
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using thimerosal, aluminum hydroxide
medium: yeast (residual < 1% yeast protein)

RotaShield
Rotavirus Vaccine, Live, Oral, Tetravalent
Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories
1-800-934-5556
produced using 1 rhesus monkey rotavirus, 3 rhesus-human reassortant
viruses, sucrose, monosodium glutamate (MSG), potassium monophosphate,
potassium diphosphate, fetal bovine serum, neomycin sulfate, amphotericin B
medium: fetal rhesus diploid cell line

Varivax
Varicella Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, processed gelatin
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)


Chemical Profiles and Definitions, visit www.scorecard.org to investigate chemical profiles
Sources: EDF (Environmental Defense Fund) & MME (Mosby's Medical Encyclopdia)

Ammonium Sulfate: EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
neurotoxicant
respiratory toxicant

Amphotericin B: MME definintion - "a drug used to treat fungus
infections. Known allergy to this drug prohibits use. Side effects
include blood clots, blood defects, kidney problems, nausea and
fever. When used on the skin, allergic reactions can occur."

Aluminum: EDF Suspected - cardiovascular or blood toxicant
neurotoxicant
respiratory toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 6 ranking systems
On at least 2 federal regulatory lists



Beta-Propiolactone: EDF Recognized - carcinogen
EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
respiratory toxicant
skin or sense organ toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 3 out of 3 ranking systems
On at least 5 federal regulatory lists


Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to humans

Formaldehyde: EDF Recognized - carcinogen
Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
immunotoxicant
neurotoxicant
reproductive toxicant
respiratory toxicant
skin or sense organ toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems
On at least 8 federal regulatory lists
Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health

Gentamicin Sulfate: an antibiotic

Hydrolyzed Gelatin: obtained from selected pieces of calf and cattle
skins, de-mineralized cattle bones (ossein) and porkskin

Neomycin: an antibiotic

Phenol: aka Carbolic Acid
EDF Suspected - cardiovascular or blood toxicant
developmental toxicant
gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
kidney toxicant
neurotoxicant
respiratory toxicant
skin or sense organ toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 3 out of 10 ranking systems
On at least 8 federal regulatory lists

Phenoxyethanol: aka Antifreeze
EDF Suspected - developmental toxicant
reproductive toxicant
Less hazardous than most chemicals in 3 ranking systems

Polyribosylribitol: a component of the Hib bacterium

Polymyxin: an antibiotic

Polysorbate: EDF Suspected - skin or sense organ toxicant

Sorbitol: EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
Less hazardous than most chemicals in 1 ranking system

Streptomycin: an antibiotic

Sucrose: refined sugar

Thimerosal: ethyl mercury
EDF Recognized - development toxicant
Suspected - skin or sense organ toxicant

Tri(n)butylphosphate: EDF Suspected - kidney toxicant


neurotoxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 3 ranking systems
On at least 1 federal regulatory list


Just a note also, my younger two kids did get pertussis (whooping cough). They were 4 and 2. We took them to the doc, who said it really wasn't anything to worry about. It took them about 2-3 wks to get over it and they've been fine ever since. With pertussis the danger is in the first year of life and at that time a baby is not fully protected by the vaccinations anyway.

One of the best places to get reliable info is from the drug manufactures themselves. Merck is a big one. They will give you ingredient lists like this one, and also statistics from their clinical trials. I'm sorry, I don't have a link for that. My sister called directly to some of them and got most of the info I have.
 
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selune

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I am really frightened by the prospect of so many people not vaccinating their kids. Not only do the unvaccinated run the risk of contracting the diseases, they pose a hazard to anyone whether or not they are vaccinated because no vaccine is 100% effective. As for these diseases being just like chicken pox, "The death rate was slashed by as much as 92 percent in the 1-to-4-year-old group." please read this article
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6901574/

Another article with some very good graphs and explanations
http://www.highschoolscience.com/vaccines/vac_effective.html

I'm very pro vaccine after having my mother and grandfather nearly die from polio when my mother was young, and my husband's mother nearly die from whooping cough as a child. There are several things that are more likely tied to the increase of the things listed initially as opposed to vaccines.

Global deaths from measles have plummeted 39 percent since the 2001 launch of an international vaccination campaign to curb the disease, the World Health Organization and UNICEF said Friday.
Measles, which mostly strikes youngsters, can easily be prevented through vaccination. It claimed 873,000 lives in 1999, but the toll was down to 530,000 by the end of 2003, the U.N. agencies said.
this from http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/04/health/main678181.shtml

My grandfather also told of how terrible the Spanish Influenza of 1918-1919 was: some 675,000 Americans alone died from this, 10 times as many as in WWI. If we have the ability to prevent these terrible diseases from spreading, why do we hesitate and let the diseases win?
 
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Zoomer

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My children had most of the vaccinations, I do not do the flu shot or chicken pox. My children never had a reaction to the shots, and I believe that I did the right thing for our family. When you list out the ingredients, it makes it sound bad but there are all sorts of chemicals in the food we eat but we still eat it--Artificial sweetners, perservatives, and such. There is a link between those and certain cancers. Not to mention that meat is full of antibotics.
I know I could never live with myself if my child died or was left disable from something that they could have been vaccinated against.
 
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ShannonMcCatholic

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We don't vaccinate at birth. I feel it is too compromising to their immature immune system. We begin with particular vaccinations around 18 months (we do the DTaP series- as we live out in the country and the kids have a real chance of getting cut from something rusty). After that we are waiting until just before puberty (around age 10-11) and running titers to see to what they have gained natural immunity - and vaccinating for the rest.

We homeschool- so it's no big deal. It varies from state to state what exemptions they allow and on what grounds. In many places you can exempt for religious or philisophical reasons- but you must not get ANY vaccinations.

I think that's lame- because for religious reasons I have serious conflict with the vaccines cultured from aborted babies....
 
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andiesmama

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I went right with the scheduled vaccines for Andie, from the very beginning. We even did the chicken pox one, not the flu vaccine simply because she's really healthy & not susceptible to colds...plus not being in daycare she's not really around kids to catch it.

I, too, would have a real problem with guilt if I chose NOT to vaccinate her and she came down with some dreadful disease...

Also, I have a problem with children being in school that have NOT been vaccinated, posing a potential health problem to the other children.

These are just my simple opinions, but I choose the route that I feel safest in ensuring my daughter can be as healthy as possible!
 
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lucypevensie

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I personally was not vaccinated for anything when I was little, not even tetanus. I've had tetanus shots as an adult though. My mom was and is pretty much anti-anything MEDICAL.

Our kids have had all their shots, except for flu. It seems like everything you read about the issue is biased in one way or another. I just don't know what I can believe on this issue! There's always someone out there who will write a book or set up a website proclaiming the dangers and risks of vaccinating or not vaccinating. I've come to the conclusion that a lot of what's out there is hype.
 
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~ Gig ~

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I went right with the scheduled vaccines for Amanda, from the very beginning. I haven't done the chicken pox one yet. I'm waiting until she's 10(she'll be 9 in May), by then if she hasn't had chicken pox, I will. I also don't do the flu vaccine simply because she's really healthy & don't get a lot of colds.

And I agree 100% with andiesmama

"I, too, would have a real problem with guilt if I chose NOT to vaccinate her and she came down with some dreadful disease...

Also, I have a problem with children being in school that have NOT been vaccinated, posing a potential health problem to the other children."

I, too, choose the route that I feel safest in ensuring my daughter can be as healthy as possible!"
 
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murron

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I personally agree with the idea of making a national vaccination program. You wouldn't believe what a nightmare it is to try and track down shot records for children who have lived in other states when the parents haven't kept track of their records. It's a nightmare just crossing counties and trying to get shot records. Our state has started a statewide registry but it is not fully functional across the state yet.

I have vaccinated countless hundreds of children - and never once have any of those children come back with problems from the vaccinations. Ditto for my mother in law who is also a pediatric nurse, except she's done countless thousands (she's been a nurse much longer than I have, lol).

Vaccinations made a tremendous difference in the mortality rate of children and adults. Polio, a crippling disease, is non-existant in our country because of vaccinations. However, children who are not vaccinated are definitely at risk of contracting these diseases. Sure, we have great medical care that can mitigate some of the fatalness of these diseases, but with mumps and measles you can still end up with children who are deaf or blind. The same can be said of smallpox. One very real risk is something that was in the news a lot after 9/11. Because we no longer vaccinate children for smallpox (because it was eradicated), our children are at risk of contracting it should someone introduce the virus in a community. Yes, there are countries (even the US) which have these viruses in storage for study. Just because they don't exist among us doesn't mean they don't exist at all. For this reason, unimmunized children are not only at a major risk themselves, but also place at risk people in the community because they can be carriers of these various diseases and expose people to them. Some vaccinations do not provide lifelong protection while others do. A lot of that has to do with the person's own body as well as the type of contagen.

Regarding the possible link between ADD and vaccinations, much of that was linked to the use of mercury in manufacturing the vaccines. Around 1999 a law went into effect that banned the use of mercury in vaccinations. They are no longer made with mercury.

In the US children entering public or private schools are required to have certain immunizations. The only exception is for religious conflicts. However, the denomination you are affiliated must have a decree that they do not support the use of vaccinations, and if you are asked to do so, you must provide proof that you are a practicing member of that religion and that the religion has a policy against vaccinations. You can't just say you disagree with it for religious reasons.

For me personally, I did vaccinate my children; but, not according to the state guidelines. I waited to begin shots until they were almost a year old. I have not allowed my 4 year old to receive Varivax (chickenpox immunization), yet.
 
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newcreature

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Many of the post have been very insightful. However, I have chosen to not get immunizations for my children for various resons. Before I get into that, I would like to say that there are immunization exemptions that can be obtained if you choose not to vaccinate. My first recommendation is that you weigh both sides. Both sides are biased to some degree. There have been over 750,000 reports of adverse reactions to vaccines. My question is this, how many go unreported. Now, if something is connected to a vaccine, we can not protect ourselves legally. Bush passed a law where Vaccine makers are protected. That is suspect in itself.

My reasons for not continuing vaccinating my children include the following:
Right after my son had his second series of shots (at six months) he developed a boil at the sight of where the shot was given. The doctor told me it must be a bug bite. A couple of weeks later he developed several other pain ful boils on various parts of his body. I did my research, and i found that one of the shots can cause boils. The more i read the less impressed i was with the widespread use of vaccines.
Now, to clarify, I am not against all vaccines. I do feel however, that they are over used.
I need to close for now, but will finish later.
 
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MERCY@GRACE

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Just wanted to quickly state that even the vax'd kids can get the diseases they got the vx for( and no it's not due b/c they were around someone unvaxed). If a child does get some of these illnesses it is proven that they could either get an antibitioc(which usually clears it up) or get the shot then. My first 4 were vaxed but my last is not,and it's funny b/c she's bigger and healthier than my other 4 that were vaxed. Believe me I was much like most of you in my thinking that it was playing russian roulete w/ my childs life but really after doing my research i came away w/ the opposite feeling. This is a personal decision, and shouldn't be condemned by others if you choose to or choose not to. If your child is vaxed than there really shouldn't be a fear of them catching something right?!
 
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Zoomer

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It's nice to live in a country that has virtually erradicated common diseases thanks to childhood immunizations. It gives us a choice. However, imagine if we were a third world country where measles or polio could kill, I am sure we woud be more grateful for the vaccinations in that situation.
 
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MERCY@GRACE

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In the US children entering public or private schools are required to have certain immunizations. The only exception is for religious conflicts. However, the denomination you are affiliated must have a decree that they do not support the use of vaccinations, and if you are asked to do so, you must provide proof that you are a practicing member of that religion and that the religion has a policy against vaccinations. You can't just say you disagree with it for religious reasons

You can also get a philisophical exemption, and I *believe* all states honor these exemptions, w/out a denom affliation or proof. All that is needed is a one line sentence stating which exemption you are using, you don't even have to write out all your resoning for not vaxing lol!
 
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selune

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The fact that they are vaccinated does not protect them 100% because vaccines only reduce the risk of getting the disease. The more people that choose to not vaccinate raises the risk of infection for everyone because the disease vector is bigger. If one were vaccinated for a disease (like smallpox was dealt with) and no one could get and pass on smallpox, then the disease has been ended (unless it were reintroduced to the public by some terrorist type person who illegally got hold of a sample that is being held by some govts. If only a few people are vaccinated the barrier is weak.

Let's say my vaccination wasn't 100% and I come into contact with persons x, y, and z. x, y and z were vaccinated and they were effective. Z had contact with person Q who had measles (insert your vaccinated disease here) I don't get sick because z provided a barrier for me. If z wasn't vaccinated or if z's vaccine wasn't 100% effective, that makes it more possible that I get the disease too.

Now take that to the grand scale. All children get vaccinated for the diseases over the course of many years (throughout the world.) These diseases disappear FOREVER. This is not a biased opinion. this is a proven fact. There is no more smallpox and we have the ability to do this with all diseases that we have vaccines for. There can be side effects, but they are few and far between compared to the devestation of the diseases.
 
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