Vaccinate?

Bobinator said:

We live in an age where we've become so dependent on government, that we've given up our sovereignty to think for ourselves the way grandma and grandpa did.

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Really? That's why my maternal grandfather died of undiagnosed (until post mortem) testicular cancer. He never went to a doctor because he was embarrassed about a lump. What a shame he didn't think for himself a little better so he could have been treated.

Yes, people actually need doctors. Imagine that.

In 1987, when thimerosol (a mercury based preservative) was used in vaccines in Europe, autism cases increased by 100%. The same happened in the United States in 1988. And this doesn't seem suspect to you? How can any amount of mercury, a potent neurotoxin, be good for you? Or what about DNA from aborted fetuses, which is used in the Rubella vaccine and around 15 others? Don't you think that, in conjunction with squalene, it's contributing to increased cases of illnesses like Lupus and different types of allergies, where the body's immune system is attacking itself? I guess we'll have to wait for million dollar studies by Big Pharma to put themselves out of business.

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Where are the links?

LOL. That's information from a discredited website. I found another website that states that thimerosol is completely safe.

Thimerosal is a preservative that has been mostly phased out of vaccines in the U.S., with the exception of some flu vaccines. However, thimerosal is a preservative critical to making vaccines available to those in places where refrigeration and other preservation methods are not viable.

I would be curious to see what sources link thimerosal directly to autism.

I have noticed that people don't post links when they know that their information is based on pseudeoscience.

Hetta said:

Bobinator, you do know that disease existed prior to big pharma, right? You do know that millions died from even the most simple infections because nobody even knew about washing their hands before attending a wound, let alone without antibiotics? You do know that the average life expectancy has increased hugely, right? That people died in their 40s a couple of hundreds years ago, and women died in childbirth in swathes, and their children died with them? You do know that the simple infections that now can be treated by a vaccine have also killed millions? You do know that when people don't use vaccines, they risk infecting their own and other kids?

Oh, but let's follow China's example, because not having vaccines worked so well for us in the past.

And, you should know that travelers to China are advised to get Hepatitis shots, right, because the water has been known to carry Hepatitis?

You have to look at things from a historical perspective. For a very long time, China was closed off to the rest of the world, so of course the same diseases did not 'travel' the same way.

Interesting that this issue of ChinaDaily suggests that people get vaccinated for whooping cough. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/life/2010-09/15/content_11305107.htm

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You're absolutely right in the first part of your post. People didn't even know germs existed and had no scientific knowledge to prevent or treat diseases, so of course the mortality rate was high. China is becoming more westernized and is vulnerable to the "Almighty Yuan" as we are to the dollar. It has nothing to do with doing what's right for society. In China, they hook people up to the IV for every little reason and administer antibiotics. I've seen this with my own eyes, and it's utterly ridiculous and totally unnecessary in many cases. Some of them would be better off munching a few cloves of raw garlic mixed with ginger and honey.

The Chinese also had other crazy practices in the country-side based on ignorance, like not bathing a child for the first 3 months after birth. I'm sure this doesn't help their child mortality rate.

A big factor in maintaining good health is oral hygiene. Modern Mainland Chinese are among the best in the world for having good teeth- straight and with very few cavities. Healthy teeth and gums promote a stronger immune system. The young gals also have the nicest figures. Thanks to all that walking and eating mostly vegetables and not all that sugary stuff. However, a stronger Western influence and diet is starting to affect their health statistics. When I went to Shanghai last year, the only fat girls I saw were the ones working at Mcdonald's and KFC's. Everyone else was thin and healthy looking.

The rhetoric about not getting vaccinated and spreading disease is hogwash. That's what the New World Order is telling us so they can mandate vaccinations and poison us with whatever they want, whenever they want. Sort of like the chemicals they're spraying in the air. If you get vaccinated, and I don't, then you shouldn't catch a disease from me, right? All a vaccine is supposed to do is provide you the anti-bodies to overcome the disease. Otherwise, everyone who breaths and eats gets exposed to it one way or the other.

Just because you're exposed to a cold or flu virus doesn't mean you'll get sick. If I catch a cold or flu, it usually only means my immune system was weakened and the virus somehow got a foothold. This is where avoiding dairy and ingesting probiotics becomes very important. That and good oral hygiene and other things related to diet.

And by the way, I have never heard or known anyone in China with Hepatitis. Although taking preventive measures is generally good advice for travelers, I wouldn't get paranoid about it. I'm sure I saw a rusty nail lying on the ground somewhere, though.

"Let food be our medicine, and medicine be our food."
~ Socrates

Hetta said:

Really? That's why my maternal grandfather died of undiagnosed (until post mortem) testicular cancer. He never went to a doctor because he was embarrassed about a lump. What a shame he didn't think for himself a little better so he could have been treated.

Yes, people actually need doctors. Imagine that.

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You're taking things way out of context. You're grandfather's stubbornness to seek medical treatment was his demise, unfortunately. It wouldn't have mattered what manner of treatment was available to him.

Hetta said:

Where are the links?

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NaturalNews.com is a good resource. GreenMedinfo.com is another. Walter Last's website at http://www.health-science-spirit.com/ is quite fascinating and includes an article called "The Instant Cure for the Common Cold".

However, I think you already labeled these type of references as snake oil salesmen, or something like that.

Hetta said:

LOL. That's information from a discredited website. I found another website that states that thimerosol is completely safe.

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That and fluoride, which is a deadly toxin and lowers people's I.Q.'s. I suppose that's why they put a warning label on toothpaste to call the Poison Control Center if ingested. It may have only .243% fluoride, but brush with it over a lifetime and it will affect you in some way. Put it in your drinking water and everyone around you will get smarter.

Aspartame was declared safe. And Saddam Hussein had WMD's.

Thimerosal is 49.6% mercury by weight.

Naturalnews is not a good website. It's a hysterical, conspiracy-theorist website. But you see, this is where it becomes circular reasoning - I would ask you to talk to & read the perspective of real medical practitioners & scientists in the field & not the paranoid ramblings of pseudoscientists but you would probably say they are in the pocket of big pharma. So ... It becomes a vicious cycle. Did you see what I posted about hepatitis in China's water & that the Chinese are being advised to vaccinate? Or is that so far outside your worldview that you can't accept it? The reality is that, in a regime like the one in China, you are hardly likely to hear the truth about deaths from measles, chickenpox, polio - all diseases that are mostly *eradicated* from the west thanks to vaccines.

FDA = Vaccines, Blood & Biologics

Thimerosal in Vaccines

See also "Mercury in Plasma-Derived Products"

Thimerosol

...One final piece of data regarding thimerosal is worth noting. At the initial National Vaccine Advisory Committee-sponsored meeting on thimerosal in 1999, concerns were expressed that infants may lack the ability to eliminate mercury. More recent NIAID-supported studies at the University of Rochester and National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, MD examined levels of mercury in blood and other samples from infants who had received routine immunizations with thimerosal-containing vaccines. [Pichichero ME, et al. Lancet 360:1737-1741 (2002)] Blood levels of mercury did not exceed safety guidelines for methyl mercury for all infants in these studies. Further, mercury was cleared from the blood in infants exposed to thimerosal faster than would be predicted for methyl mercury; infants excreted significant amounts of mercury in stool after thimerosal exposure, thus removing mercury from their bodies. These results suggest that there are differences in the way that thimerosal and methyl mercury are distributed, metabolized, and excreted. Thimerosal appears to be removed from the blood and body more rapidly than methyl mercury. NIAID is sponsoring a follow-up study with larger numbers of infants in Buenos Aires where thimerosal-containing vaccines are still administered to children. See "Related Links" below to find a link to the NIH/NIAID vaccines/thimerosal web site.

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While vaccines in principle are just fine, if they work as intended and no serious side-effects, some are quite unethical due to the fact that they have been cultured in the cells of deliberate abortion victims.* Children of God for Life, World Leaders of the Campaign for Ethical Vaccines, Medicines and Consumer Products has a detailed paper trail of that fact.

One of their other efforts is beginning to show that the use of these cells, not thimerosal, is the likely contaminant in vaccines that is increasing severe autism rates.

*That is like killing someone so you could harvest their organs for the transplant market...

I know that the vaccination debate can bring out the passion in some. It isn't something I've looked a whole lot into myself. My general feeling has tended to be that most vaccinations can be helpful to some degree, and sometimes tragically cause harm to a small %. (I just watched a film on that.) Personally, I've not been keen on the flu shot. I feel it is safe. It's due to what I've read about its lack of effectiveness in general and what I've witnessed too. My personal preference is to eat well, exercise, practice good hygiene, and take vitamin D. That combination has kept me flu/cold free most of the time.

Over the weekend I watched an informative film about the vaccine debate. It is called The Greater Good. It takes a look at the position of the two sides. On Dr. Mercola's sight the film is free to watch for the next few days.

What surprised me in the film was how many diseases were waining due to improved sanity conditions, and not as much due to vaccines. I had read that before about TB, the great killer in the 19th and 20th century. I didn't realize other diseases were being eradicated due to improved sanity and pest control policies also.

"The Greater Good"

Beware of Dangerous Vaccine Effects | The Greater Good

And again, millions of babies are no longer disabled or killed by polio .. mumps .. rubella .. pertussis ..

Briseis said:

I am just looking for some basic information. My sister is a huge anti-vaccine person and I am afraid to ask her for information because of how passionate about it she is. But I dont really understand all the information I am hearing from different sources, so could anyone explain to me the different arguments without getting into it too much?

I keep hearing about this measles outbreak, but I dont understand how that could be caused by unvaccinated children, because wouldnt that mean only children who are unvaccinated would be getting it? That is the whole purpose of a vaccine, is it not? The vaccinated children should not be catching it. So is there something wrong with the vaccines? Or they not working properly?

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You may find this video of assistance. It is only 12 minutes long.

VACCINATION CRISIS! - YouTube

Now this video is much more in depth and scientific. Whoever wants to spare the time can look but it is a lot of studies and information here.

371 - Immunity, Infectious Disease, And Vaccination - Amazing Discoveries TV

Are these peer reviewed, scientific studies? I don't open links from YT or anywhere else that is unkown.

Dr. Briffa has a nice article up this afternoon on the flu vaccine. It is based upon an article found in the British Medical Journal. In it he highlights the historical use of the flu vaccine and some recent health problems encountered with its use.

"Flu vaccination is most certainly not a ‘no-brainer’"

Flu vaccination is most certainly not a ‘no-brainer’ | Dr Briffa's Blog - A Good Look at Good Health

excerpt from his article:

...Some people claim that the evidence for the life-saving effects of flu vaccination are to be clearly seen in the figures showing declining mortality in recent years. However, as the following graph shows, flu mortality dropped dramatically and started to ‘bottom out’ well before flu vaccination became widespread.

Dr Doshi even asks questions about the safety of flu vaccination. He points out that:

Australia suspended its influenza vaccination program in under five year olds after many (one in every 110 vaccinated) children had febrile convulsions after vaccination. Another serious reaction to influenza vaccines—and also unexpected—occurred in Sweden and Finland, where H1N1 influenza vaccines were associated with a spike in cases of narcolepsy among adolescents (about one in every 55 000 vaccinated). Subsequent investigations by governmental and non-governmental researchers confirmed the vaccine’s role in these serious events.

Currently, legal action is being taken on behalf of 38 individuals who appear to have developed narcolepsy as a result of vaccination with GSK’s ‘Pandemrix’ (for swine flu). The UK Government has admitted that there does indeed appear to be a genuine link here. For more on this story, see here.

Dr Doshi’s analysis goes us a great service, I think, and may cause many to consider when flu vaccination is really the ‘no-brainer’ its often presented to be.

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But this thread isn't even about the flu vaccine. It's about life saving vaccinations for small children.

I am just looking for some basic information. My sister is a huge anti-vaccine person and I am afraid to ask her for information because of how passionate about it she is. But I dont really understand all the information I am hearing from different sources, so could anyone explain to me the different arguments without getting into it too much?

I keep hearing about this measles outbreak, but I dont understand how that could be caused by unvaccinated children, because wouldnt that mean only children who are unvaccinated would be getting it? That is the whole purpose of a vaccine, is it not? The vaccinated children should not be catching it. So is there something wrong with the vaccines? Or they not working properly?

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Hetta said:

LOL. That's information from a discredited website. I found another website that states that thimerosol is completely safe.

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You found a website that says mercury is completely safe?