Vaccinate? yes or no? 2 babies die, dozens hospitalized after vaccination in southern Mexico

[Blue Wren]

Yes, I am aware of the complications you have had and I feel horrible for you. You know I love you . I just don't agree with all the anti-vax bashing. So I keep my opinions to myself.

I don't think people who choose not to vax are horrible criminals who deserve death. I believe there are two sides to this and I also believe parents should have the choice.

There are 2 sides, yes, but they are not equal, at all, when it comes to evidence. There are extremists, on both sides, of every issues, yes? Most people, do not wish for anti-vax parents, to be treated like criminals who deserve death, no. I should hope, most people, who are anti-vax, aren't calling autism a "Holocaust" caused by vaccines, & other idiot things, like some nutters do. Most, are not so extreme. It is responsible, to fairly criticise parents, who do not vaccinate their children, against the advice of their paediatricians. It is not true, that you've kept your opinions, to yourself, is it? You posted so many threads & posts, on this place. You posted, on a thread you made, a blog, with a cutting letter, "dear parents of a immunocompromised child who think my child is a threat" when our mutual friend here, who is an immunocompromised child, was in quarantine, due to measles exposure.

To add. Parents are not making a choice, just for their own children, this is the problem. Still, they do have choices, yes? Even, in California, with the new law. If parents, do not wish to vaccinate their children, they can school them from the home. In Australia, if they do not wish to vaccinate, they will not receive special tax exemptions. There are a few countries, where inoculations, are compulsory, due to outbreaks & such. I do not see so many people, from those countries, posting on this place.

 

[Dave RP]

No. Better to let the parents decide what is best for their children rather than let the government make that decision.

Unfortunately it doesn't just affect the particular parents children, if there are too many un-vaccinated children in a particular area then childhood illnesses which should be confined to history will return, killing and maiming many.

 

[Saricharity]

There are 2 sides, yes, but they are not equal, at all, when it comes to evidence. There are extremists, on both sides, of every issues, yes? Most people, do not wish for anti-vax parents, to be treated like criminals who deserve death, no. I should hope, most people, who are anti-vax, aren't calling autism a "Holocaust" caused by vaccines, & other idiot things, like some nutters do. Most, are not so extreme. It is responsible, to fairly criticise parents, who do not vaccinate their children, against the advice of their paediatricians. It is not true, that you've kept your opinions, to yourself, is it? You posted so many threads & posts, on this place. You posted, on a thread you made, a blog, with a cutting letter, "dear parents of a immunocompromised child who think my child is a threat" when our mutual friend here, who is an immunocompromised child, was in quarantine, due to measles exposure.

To add. Parents are not making a choice, just for their own children, this is the problem. Still, they do have choices, yes? Even, in California, with the new law. If parents, do not wish to vaccinate their children, they can school them from the home. In Australia, if they do not wish to vaccinate, they will not receive special tax exemptions. There are a few countries, where inoculations, are compulsory, due to outbreaks & such. I do not see so many people, from those countries, posting on this place.

I believe parents have good reasons when they choose not to vax. I believe they should have a choice. I refuse to judge them. Trust me, I have refrained from saying and posting more that I have learned here. It's not worth my time or energy. I know more than one immune compromised child and not all of them think alike on this topic. Like it or not, there is a widespread opinion on this topic. It's not going away anytime soon. Since the beginning of vaccines, people have had concerns. I don't agree with you about criticizing parents on this choice. Doctors are responsible to inform about medical decisions and back off. No one has the right to tell an individual what to inject into their body or their child's. It's morally wrong. Just because politicians create a law doesn't make it morally right.

 

[Paulos23]

I believe parents have good reasons when they choose not to vax. I believe they should have a choice. I refuse to judge them. Trust me, I have refrained from saying and posting more that I have learned here. It's not worth my time or energy. I know more than one immune compromised child and not all of them think alike on this topic. Like it or not, there is a widespread opinion on this topic. It's not going away anytime soon. Since the beginning of vaccines, people have had concerns. I don't agree with you about criticizing parents on this choice. Doctors are responsible to inform about medical decisions and back off. No one has the right to tell an individual what to inject into their body or their child's. It's morally wrong. Just because politicians create a law doesn't make it morally right.

You have not lived in the time when "childhood" diseases where rampant and your child getting one meant they may die, or worse they would be maimed. There was a reason people had many children in the past. So that some would survive.

We have had over a generation of people not worrying about this, and it has skewed their perception. Once their kids get sick, they will regret not vaccinating.

 

[The Cadet]

If one child dies from a vaccination, it's too many. Parents should have the right to decide whether to take that risk or not.

Does this same logic apply to bicycle helmets and seatbelts? I mean, I know for a fact that children have died because they were buckled in or had helmets on. They would not have died otherwise. Does that mean we should leave the choice of whether or not to wear a seatbelt up to the child?

I believe parents have good reasons when they choose not to vax.

Why do you believe that? I have looked and looked and looked for good reasons to avoid vaccination, and all I find is more and more bad science, so if you know of a good reason not to vaccinate a child without a direct medical contraindication (an allergy, or HIV for example), I'd love to hear it.

 

[The Cadet]

Mandating vaccines is both unnecessary

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/06/map-where-californias-unvaccinated-live.html

I'd say that given that some regions in Cali have uptake rates as low as 67%, that the vaccination status of the community is of legitimate interest to each individual within that community, that we're protecting against lethal diseases, and that those diseases are making a comeback, "unnecessary" is not a good word to use.

 

[Aldebaran]

Does this same logic apply to bicycle helmets and seatbelts? I mean, I know for a fact that children have died because they were buckled in or had helmets on. They would not have died otherwise. Does that mean we should leave the choice of whether or not to wear a seatbelt up to the child?

I think you mean "the parent". The answer is yes. It should be up to an individual to decide what they are going to do for themselves. Seatbelts and helmets included. Of course, the government disagrees with that too because they reason that it raises the insurance rates for everyone else. Why is that? Because the government also mandates that hospitals are required to treat those who don't have means to pay, and also that everyone is required to have health insurance.

Where government controls and mandates, government takes away freedom.

 

[Aldebaran]

People who don't get vaccinations do not have legitimate reasons and they risk the lives of others. If a kid gets a disease that should not exist within a society that vaccinates, then it is the parents' fault. If you don't want to get your shots, then you have the right to be deported to your place of choice.

Wow, what an attitude! So American! You clearly have redefined what a "right" is.

 

[Supreme]

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/06/map-where-californias-unvaccinated-live.html

I'd say that given that some regions in Cali have uptake rates as low as 67%, that the vaccination status of the community is of legitimate interest to each individual within that community, that we're protecting against lethal diseases, and that those diseases are making a comeback, "unnecessary" is not a good word to use.

It's very sad to see an illness as preventable as measles making a comeback, all because a small minority of people have ridiculous views of vaccination.

 

[The Cadet]

I think you mean "the parent". The answer is yes. It should be up to an individual to decide what they are going to do for themselves. Seatbelts and helmets included. Of course, the government disagrees with that too because they reason that it raises the insurance rates for everyone else. Why is that? Because the government also mandates that hospitals are required to treat those who don't have means to pay, and also that everyone is required to have health insurance.

Where government controls and mandates, government takes away freedom.

Well, you're internally consistent, but I have to say that I don't find your system of government a particularly attractive concept.

 

[Aldebaran]

Well, you're internally consistent, but I have to say that I don't find your system of government a particularly attractive concept.

It used to be all about freedom, but as of late, it has been all about "keeping us safe" from each other, ourselves, and anything that might deduct from the tax base. The government seems to think they are the parents of the people now.

 

[Peregrino]

It's so sad that the US, such a powerhouse of science should be home to such conspiracy theories as anti-vax. In addition, these theories are uncharitable--they are made to keep children away from protection against some very deadly diseases.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's so sad that the US, such a powerhouse of science should be home to such conspiracy theories as anti-vax. In addition, these theories are uncharitable--they are made to keep children away from protection against some very deadly diseases.

They are made to keep children from the potentially life-threatening side effects of vaccines.

The theory that they're made to keep children away from protection is more of a conspiracy theory than what you are speaking against.

 

[Loudmouth]

(CNN)Mexican health officials are investigating after two babies died and 29 children were hospitalized from suspected adverse reactions to shots from the country's national vaccination program.

Six of the children hospitalized in the southern Mexican state of Chiapas remain in serious condition, the Mexican Social Security Institute said on Sunday.

The parents of the two infants who died were so outraged at the government that they refused to let authorities perform autopsies, CNNMexico reported.

unless the drug companies get it right.. I vote no.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/health/mexico-vaccine-deaths/

The threat from these vaccines most likely no different than anything that is injected into the body.

"Authorities haven't said what they think caused the illnesses. They've pinpointed the batches the vaccines came from and have suspended administration of other vaccines from those batches pending the conclusion of their investigation, the institute said. They're also investigating the needles used in the vaccinations and the possibility that a virus or bacteria could have caused the illnesses, Mexico's El Universal newspaper reported."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/health/mexico-vaccine-deaths/

If a shot is nothing but saline, you still run the risk of viral or bacterial infection. Since this appears to be limited to one batch of vaccines, the most likely culprit is contamination.

 

[Loudmouth]

If one child dies from a vaccination, it's too many. Parents should have the right to decide whether to take that risk or not.

A vaccine saves hundreds of millions of lives, but also causes 1 or 2 deaths from complications related directly to the vaccine. You are saying that this vaccine should be taken off the market because one death is too much?

 

[ebia]

It used to be all about freedom, but as of late, it has been all about "keeping us safe" from each other, ourselves, and anything that might deduct from the tax base. The government seems to think they are the parents of the people now.

"It" isn't and never was all about your personal freedom overriding everyone else's safety.

 

[Peregrino]

They are made to keep children from the potentially life-threatening side effects of vaccines.

The theory that they're made to keep children away from protection is more of a conspiracy theory than what you are speaking against.

Yes, that's the conspiracy theory, that vaccines are a threat to kids, after having saved millions of children and adults, and still doing it. Isn't it daft? Sad, really.

__________________
EDIT: I just saw the other threads in this section. The amount of conspiracies, from Government going to close schools for not marrying gays, to Armaggeddon happening (aparently Armaggeddon happens every 4 to 6 months since the Soviet Union was the anti-Christ --that would inevitably bring the end of the world-- over 40 years ago, and those of us who didn't think so were deranged or worse, demonized)... is daunting.

I think I should keep away from this section of the forums--it's much too wacko for my peace of mind and soul.

 

[keith99]

The threat from these vaccines most likely no different than anything that is injected into the body.

"Authorities haven't said what they think caused the illnesses. They've pinpointed the batches the vaccines came from and have suspended administration of other vaccines from those batches pending the conclusion of their investigation, the institute said. They're also investigating the needles used in the vaccinations and the possibility that a virus or bacteria could have caused the illnesses, Mexico's El Universal newspaper reported."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/health/mexico-vaccine-deaths/

If a shot is nothing but saline, you still run the risk of viral or bacterial infection. Since this appears to be limited to one batch of vaccines, the most likely culprit is contamination.

Uh, no.

It was not linked to the vaccines at all. In the initial response all vials from the same batches were not administered until the cause was found. A reasonable precaution. The cause was found to bacterial and not related to the vaccines.

This was documented in posts 5 and 6 of this thread and I mentioned in post 25 that this would most likely been prevented if the vaccines contained Thimerosal which sadly has been removed because of irrational fears of anti vaxers.

 

[stray bullet]

Wow, what an attitude! So American! You clearly have redefined what a "right" is.

Right being what, being a public health hazard? No one gets that right. We put people in jail for spreading HIV.

 

[stray bullet]

Vaccines don't just save the child immunized, they save other children that are not old enough to get the vaccine. When a parent forgoes a vaccine, they put everyone else at risk.