US Surgeon General discusses loneliness as a public health problem

FireDragon76

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Surgeon General Vivek Murthy discusses the epidemic of loneliness in the US, and it's impacts on health.



This is the first time I've really listened to Vivek Murthy. I am impressed by the holistic vision he brings. We haven't had a surgeon general like him, since perhaps C. Everett Koop. There's alot he's talking about, that also spans usual partisan divides, and touches on values that are common to many different kinds of Americans, regardless of religious or ethnic backgrounds.

It's also interesting that it takes a non-Christian in the US, and a member of a religious minority that is unfamiliar to most, to discuss the real value of religious communities and religious values as a social good, in such a clear way. For too long, religion has been politicized in the US, causing alot of younger people to discount it, despite the benefits to health from religious participation, which are not always straightforwardly obvious.
 
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timewerx

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Churches with lower income members are warmer and friendlier. Perhaps, a little needy. I totally get the neediness though.

Less likely to scrutinize you by the brands and $price of what you wear. If you're trying to escape the stress of 'measuring up' to other people's standards, that's the answer.
 
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FireDragon76

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Churches with lower income members are warmer and friendlier. Perhaps, a little needy. I totally get the neediness though.

Less likely to scrutinize you by the brands and $price of what you wear. If you're trying to escape the stress of 'measuring up' to other people's standards, that's the answer.

In the US, that's not the major reason many young people avoid churches. Many American young people are post-materialist and measure status in different ways than in the past. They often just don't see the need to go to church, or they associate religion with bigotry, hypocrisy, or science-denial. The politicization of religion during most of my life is a significant factor.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Surgeon General Vivek Murthy discusses the epidemic of loneliness in the US, and it's impacts on health.



This is the first time I've really listened to Vivek Murthy. I am impressed by the holistic vision he brings. We haven't had a surgeon general like him, since perhaps C. Everett Koop. There's alot he's talking about, that also spans usual partisan divides, and touches on values that are common to many different kinds of Americans, regardless of religious or ethnic backgrounds.

It's also interesting that it takes a non-Christian in the US, and a member of a religious minority that is unfamiliar to most, to discuss the real value of religious communities and religious values as a social good, in such a clear way. For too long, religion has been politicized in the US, causing alot of younger people to discount it, despite the benefits to health from religious participation, which are not always straightforwardly obvious.
Social distancing did a number on us. Then the big box stores were allowed to be open but not the smaller places and not the schools and churches. Lots of loneliness. Enforced loneliness for too long.

It’s complex, but that changed things.
 
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timewerx

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or they associate religion with bigotry, hypocrisy, or science-denial.

I have same sentiment. I'm finding it impossible to overlook it. The sermons are the only thing I can tolerate. The church I go to preach sermons in a context that is more accepting of science, facts, and practical reasoning/logic. Otherwise, the members doesn't usually have the same sentiment and I avoid 'small group' fellowships or bible studies. They have a tendency to correlate righteousness with material blessings and earthly relationships.
 
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FireDragon76

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Social distancing did a number on us. Then the big box stores were allowed to be open but not the smaller places and not the schools and churches. Lots of loneliness. Enforced loneliness for too long.

It’s complex, but that changed things.

Some of that was more about percption that reality. I stayed in touch with folks over Zoom and on the internet, and I tried to focus on positive and uplifting activities. One thing I did during the pandemic was to just go for walks. I know some other folks that basically didn't even try that, like it didn't even enter their mind to do so, that it might be a healthy thing to do. I took the opportunity to get in touch with nature. Even though I live in a semi-urban area, there's still nature to see. Other folks just sat and watched TV all the time, and that could involve being exposed to alot of negativity.

Murthy noted that he started researching loneliness even before the pandemic started. It's a trend that has been happening for decades. The pandemic just made the problem worse.

My pastor used to talk about the Robert Putnam book, Bowling Alone, that documented the decline in civic participation in America. It came out around 2000.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Some of that was more about percption that reality. I stayed in touch with folks over Zoom and on the internet, and I tried to focus on positive and uplifting activities. One thing I did during the pandemic was to just go for walks. I know some other folks that basically didn't even try that, like it didn't even enter their mind to do so, that it might be a healthy thing to do. I took the opportunity to get in touch with nature. Even though I live in a semi-urban area, there's still nature to see.
I got out and walked for miles. I lived near a fantastic trail and I walked without a mask. I know. Shockingly irresponsible at the time according to some. As to Zoom or watching mass online, it just isn't the same. A virtual Eucharist? Not quite the same.
Other folks just sat and watched TV all the time, and that could involve being exposed to alot of negativity.
Too much TV news is toxic. It's always like the world is ending. With or without Covid.
Murthy noted that he started researching loneliness even before the pandemic started. It's a trend that has been happening for decades. The pandemic just made the problem worse.
I agree that the trends were there before. It would have been worthy of talking about even without Covid.
My pastor used to talk about the Robert Putnam book, Bowling Alone, that documented the decline in civic participation in America. It came out around 2000.
Agreed nothing new. But massively accelerated. And not yet recovered from because 'social distancing' has been learned and is only slowly unlearned.
 
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The Righterzpen

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It’s complex, but that changed things.
Though I think it's true that lots of people had varying interpretations on what the pandemic did to societies. I think you have a valid point. It did change things; and likely in ways we still don't understand!

It definitely impacted my son. Four years later and he still hardly ever leaves the house; even though he's certainly not afraid of Covid.

I think Covid exacerbated the loneliness problems that were already in play due to other changes in society.
 
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FireDragon76

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Though I think it's true that lots of people had varying interpretations on what the pandemic did to societies. I think you have a valid point. It did change things; and likely in ways we still don't understand!

It definitely impacted my son. Four years later and he still hardly ever leaves the house; even though he's certainly not afraid of Covid.

I think Covid exacerbated the loneliness problems that were already in play due to other changes in society.

It seems like things that should have changed, really haven't. The proverb about a dog returning to its vomit comes to mind.
 
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The Righterzpen

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It seems like things that should have changed, really haven't. The proverb about a dog returning to its vomit comes to mind.
That's an interesting take on it.

Although It seems it's been a lot longer process than just Covid. The age of the home computer and the Internet seems to me to play a big role in this. The definition of what used to be "community" has changed. Which has come to impact every generation at this point. Except maybe the generation that fought WWII. But at this point, most of them are deceased.

I know I'm the front end of Gen X and it's affected me less than Millennials, and Gen Z (my son's generation) but more than Boomers. I'm old enough though that I'm almost a Boomer. I have siblings who are technically "Boomers". My parents were born during WWII. And their parents were born about the 1910's. So they too were kind of "between generations". And things were very different when I was a kid than when my son was. We were the last "outside until the street lights came on" generation. Which obviously was a very different world than now. (Example: we are total strangers from.... who knows where talking to each other about this over the Internet! So yeah, things have changed.

The other thing that's changed is the divorce rate. Which is certainly a "mixed bag" though mostly of negative impact for the stability of society in general. Yet on the positive side it's more "socially acceptable" (and easier) to get out of a destructive relationship. Now are there more destructive relationships now than there were 50 years ago; seeing how expectations have also changed? (I don't know the real answer to that question; as I'm at the point of even questioning the basic statistics "they" (government) tell us.

Because of the Internet; we've become aware of so much of the narratives that simply aren't even true. I've come to the conclusion that most of what I've learned of the history of 20th century in general; is propaganda. We don't trust the institutions any more and now individuals are looking for their "tribes". Which that too, now isn't traditional "tribalism"; because we are now looking for our ideological tribes, which aren't necessarily ethic, racial or religious. There's "political tribalism" in the questions of "What does it mean to be an American"; (or Canadian, German, "native European" (or what ever). For some people that becomes to involve racial and ethnic parameters; but for most of us it's an ideological question.

For example; I'm a veteran. And there's a certain degree of "tribalism" to that definition too. In two plus generations where military service is a life choice factor; people who were in the military have a unique set of life experiences that are unique from the rest of their county's society in general. Which again; "veteran status" is its own mixed bag. Which people of a certain (usually younger) "political" persuasion want to label me as a "domestic terrorist". But that in and of itself is another example of "ideological tribalism".

Is part of this "epidemic of loneliness" part of these factors in society? (Certainly, I think it is.) Now I live in a rural small town; in a working class, rather ethnically mixed neighborhood. There's a Chinese family that lives down the street. A Pakistani Muslim family that lives behind me. A multigenerational ethically African family that fled the city when Covid started, and several Mexican / Latin American legal immigrants. But we all have two things in common. We're "Constitutional Americans" and we all primarily have the same work ethic. And I live in NY. Except for the cities, the rest of the state is primarily politically "conservative" heavy on the 2nd Amendment rights. (A lot of people in this town are hunters too.)

And though as a European descended American veteran; I'm quite comfortable in this town. I still feel a certain degree of "social isolation". Which I can't say is necessarily the town itself. The leadership of this town is very heavy on "community integration" with in the traditional definition of what it means to be American. We are immigrant friendly. We believe in hard work and the Constitution. This is a very patriotic town. (Most towns in rural America are.)

So why am I still "lonely"? (Probably because my personal definition of "community" has changed too. The immediate friends I surround myself with are a tighter version of "ideological tribalism". The people in my "tribe" have primarily the same religious beliefs, though some of our "political beliefs" may very. I have a lot of friends who got the Covid vaxx: who now accept the fact that we didn't. Which again, another "ideological factor" that has become less of an "issue" as time has gone on. (Though I understand the Covid vaxxed did (do) most likely pose a certain health risk to me.) But do I let the ideological "them" divide us as a community? (My African American and Muslim neighbors didn't get the Covid vaxx either; but a lot of my European descended Christian friends did!)

And then we have my son's generation. Both him and many of his friends "identify" as "asexual". Which presents another challenge of delineating how to deal with aspects of (particularly) LGBTQ+++ and "woke" ideologies against the back drop of Christianity. My son and his friends genuinely feel "no attraction to any sex"; which is for his "ideological tribe" a product of the ideas that have influenced his generation. (One of his friends has purple hair. Which I'm sure the Muslim neighbors (minimally) feel: "Well; they're just plain weird!"

Yet another factor of what's fractured society as a whole! Which how do we navigate all of this within the whole framework of Christian truth? It becomes less and less the simple factor of "communal loneliness". In a lot of ways; society really is "breaking down".
 
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