Upon this rock

[Root of Jesse]

I'm not in your gym (the Roman church). I'm just pointing out that your reasoning is bovine manure, brought on by desperation to make the square block fit in the circular hole.

I'm not in any Roman church. But 'my' reasoning is the reasoning of Christ's Church for 2100 years. It's Reformers who try to change definitions, but that don't fly.

Yes.

Again, your opinion. And you're entitled to sit in your own slop.

False

any proof to any of your assertions?

Which happens to be true.

Nope.


No.
[/quote]


Neither does the Roman church.[/QUOTE]there's no Roman Church. The Catholic Church meets the requirements.

 

[RhaegarTargaryen]

I'm not in any Roman church.

Yes, you are. The fact that the Roman church claims to be identical to the Church Catholic is irrelevant.

But 'my' reasoning is the reasoning of Christ's Church for 2100 years.

1: I don't know what universe you live in, but in ours it hasn't been 2100 years since the time of Christ.
Do you have flying cars and interstellar travel yet?
2: No, it is the reasoning of one of the branches of Christ's Church: The Roman church.

Again, your opinion. And you're entitled to sit in your own slop.

Yes, you are indeed. But I am not obliged to sit here and let you spread it out unopposed.

any proof to any of your assertions?

IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE LINK!!!!!!!

Nope.

Yep.

No.
[/quote]

there's no Roman Church.

Yes, there is. The one you're in and claim is identical to the Church Catholic.

The Catholic Church meets the requirements.

But the Church Catholic isn't the same as the Roman church.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes and yes. Christ is the Rock and his Church is built on Him and faith in Him.

Okay, demonstrate that they are all dealing with the same rock. Show us all how you've exegeted the passages and arrived at the claims you've backed from Standing Up's posts.

 

[Rick Otto]

I laughed all night over this...orthodox, whether capitalized or not, means the same thing, unless you're branding a group of people, sort of like what you do with Catholics. Catholic means universal. It's not a denominational name. Orthodox means adhering to the faith. So I'm an orthodox Catholic. Capitalization means little.

I used to think so too, and I even started a thread about it awhile back.
But no, brother... we are outnumbered and must accommodate the herd or get trampled.
Orthodox means Eastern Orthodox by and large, and Catholic means Roman Catholic in the vernacular, which you and I agree indulges some vulgarity.
You surprise me every once in awhile with these little gems.

 

[Standing Up]

Okay, demonstrate that they are all dealing with the same rock. Show us all how you've exegeted the passages and arrived at the claims you've backed from Standing Up's posts.

It's all over the bible. Again, no one thinks that Peter or anyone but Christ is the rock, until c200ad when Tertullian chastises Rome for usurping Peter's role.

Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Psalm 31:3
For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name's sake lead me, and guide me.

Psalm 62:6
He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.

I would strongly urge you to come to a scriptural understanding of who the rock is. It isn't RC.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yes, you are. The fact that the Roman church claims to be identical to the Church Catholic is irrelevant.

Your judgement means little. There is no Roman Church.

1: I don't know what universe you live in, but in ours it hasn't been 2100 years since the time of Christ.
Do you have flying cars and interstellar travel yet?
2: No, it is the reasoning of one of the branches of Christ's Church: The Roman church.

Well, exxxxxxcccccccccussssseeeee my typo! Christ's Church has no branches.

Yes, you are indeed. But I am not obliged to sit here and let you spread it out unopposed.



IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE LINK!!!!!!!



Yep.

No.





Yes, there is. The one you're in and claim is identical to the Church Catholic.



But the Church Catholic isn't the same as the Roman church.

Any proof you have of this Roman Church denomination???

 

[SAAN]

The bible makes it clear that Christ is both the foundation (Acts 4:11-12;1 Corinthians 3:11) and the head (Eph 5:23) of the church.

The RCC uses the argument that Peter is the rock to which Jesus referred as evidence that it is the one true church. As we have seen, Peter's being the rock is not the only valid interpretation of this verse. Even if Peter is the rock in Matt 16:18, this is meaningless in giving the Roman Catholic Church any authority. Scripture nowhere records Peter being in Rome. Scripture nowhere describes Peter as being supreme over the other apostles. The New Testament does not describe Peter as being the “all authoritative leader” of the early Christian church. Peter was not the first pope, and Peter did not start the Roman Catholic Church. The origin of the RCC is not in the teachings of Peter or any other apostle. If Peter truly was the founder of the Roman Catholic Church, it would be in full agreement with what Peter taught (Acts chapter 2, 1 Peter, 2 Peter).

 

[RhaegarTargaryen]

The Roman church is the church which erroneously calls itself "the Catholic Church".

 

[Root of Jesse]

There is no such church which erroneously calls itself the Catholic Church. Just ask Martin Luther, who never intended to break off from the one true Church, only to push it faster in its reform.

 

[RhaegarTargaryen]

There is no such church which erroneously calls itself the Catholic Church.

Yes there is. And no amount of denying reality makes it otherwise.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes there is. And no amount of denying reality makes it otherwise.

Repeating the same erroneous claim will not make it true. It is just as much in error the second time as the first and the third time as the second and so forth. There is one holy catholic and apostolic church which the Lord Jesus Christ builds upon saint Peter.

 

[Root of Jesse]

And yet you have no support for your opinion...

 

[RhaegarTargaryen]

Repeating the same erroneous claim will not make it true. It is just as much in error the second time as the first and the third time as the second and so forth. There is one holy catholic and apostolic church which the Lord Jesus Christ builds upon saint Peter.

But the constant attempt at identifying that church with the Roman church is what's wrong. And when you repeatedly refuse to see this, then it must be repeated again and again. And certainly when you make the opposite claim again and again.
But hey, according to your eisegesis (if you took it seriously yourself), the church is build on satan, because Jesus spoke to Peter as well when he said "Get thee behind me, satan", so we might have a problem anyway

 

[Standing Up]

There is no such church which erroneously calls itself the Catholic Church.

It was the church at Rome that began to define itself as the Roman Church. But a different thread.

 

[Standing Up]

There is one holy catholic and apostolic church which the Lord Jesus Christ builds upon saint Peter.

Be nice to your EO and OO and P and A friends.

More to the point of the thread. Anyone has yet to show that anyone prior to Tertullian's time c200ad understood Mt. 16:18 in any way, except as Christ is the rock.

 

[MoreCoffee]

But the constant attempt at identifying that church with the Roman church is what's wrong.
...

The one holy, catholic, and apostolic church is the Catholic Church that we all know today. It is, of course, filled with 21st century people in its earthly parishes but its heavenly saints and its elect saints in purgatory are also members of the Catholic Church which does have its chief bishop in Rome.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Be nice to ....

Please keep the posts relevant to the thread's theme.

 

[Root of Jesse]

But the constant attempt at identifying that church with the Roman church is what's wrong. And when you repeatedly refuse to see this, then it must be repeated again and again. And certainly when you make the opposite claim again and again.

You are the one trying to identify the Catholic Church with the Roman Church. And it's an incorrect identification. The Catholic Church is the universal Church instituted by Christ, and centered just outside of Rome, physically.

But hey, according to your eisegesis (if you took it seriously yourself), the church is build on satan, because Jesus spoke to Peter as well when he said "Get thee behind me, satan", so we might have a problem anyway

You, for sure, have a problem, but not us. The Church is built on the foundation of Christ with Peter as the leader of Christ's visible Church. It's your eisegesis of what Catholics believe that's erroneous. That's nothing new, though.

 

[RhaegarTargaryen]

You are the one trying to identify the Catholic Church with the Roman Church. And it's an incorrect identification.

No. What you call "the Catholic Church" is just one part of the Church Catholic.

The Catholic Church is the universal Church instituted by Christ, and centered just outside of Rome, physically.

According to you.

The Church is built on the foundation of Christ with Peter as the leader of Christ's visible Church.

So, first you say the Church is build on Peter - now you say that the Church is build on Christ (which I would agree with). Which is it?
Also: If this is the case, then your church is build on satan, because Jesus says "Get the behind me, satan" to the same guy he says: "Upon this rock...".
If one is to be identified with Peter, then the other is as well. There is no room in the text for the convenient mental gymnastics that you use to pretend like He's suddenly talking to someone else. He isn't.

 

[patricius79]

No. What you call "the Catholic Church" is just one part of the Church Catholic.



According to you.



So, first you say the Church is build on Peter - now you say that the Church is build on Christ (which I would agree with). Which is it?
.

The Bible says that Christ is the One Foundation. The Bible also says the Church is built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets. It also says the Church is built on Simon Rock.