Update on Fr. John Corapi

[BAFRIEND]

father corapi after all this time just now learns the Church is not a democracy

 

[Chrystal-J]

From his website:
He believes he is stuck in a position where he is unable to comply with what is asked of him and therefore will be left suspended and unable to practice his ministry indefinitely, despite not being found guilty of wrongdoing.
He has not been informed of the exact nature of the allegations, nor who is making the allegations to confront the accuser.
He states he has not been able to review any evidence against him, nor cross-examine witnesses.
And here is why he taking the action he is.

Wouldn't civil rights and cross examinations apply when you're been arrested? Not with-in a work place dispute? I know that some places of employment have future employees sign a notice that they may be fired for any reason at any time. They don't have any recourse regarding this and they don't have to be informed of why they were fired. I think civil rights apply to criminal cases, and from what I've read so far, Corapi hasn't been arrested for anything.
I'm not saying I don't sympathize with what Corapi claims is happening to him (being kept in the dark regarding these accusations). I think it would be frustrating beyond measure to be accused of something then not being told who is doing the accusing. But, he must of known how the Catholic church would handle such matters when he signed up to be a priest. I think he's acting in a rash manner. If he's innocent, the matter would of blown over at some point and he could of resumed his ministry. Now he's saying that certain Bishops are all wrong and the system is flawed. If he felt like this, why bring this issue up now? The system must of been flawed long before he got accused of anything. What happened to his "combat boots" ideology? It looks more like he folded his hand to me.
He says: "There is a general unwillingness or outright refusal by certain of the bishops to abide by applicable statutes of limitations, both in canon and civil law." Yet, he wants to be the "black" sheep dog who also does his own thing? Isn't that kind of what he feels the bishops are doing?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Corapi. I'm more confused and disappointed than anything. I prayed for him all during Lent that this situation would be handled fairly and he would be able to get back to his ministry soon.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It's interesting how I sense a general anti-Corapi sentiment on this forum while on another Catholic online forum that shall go unnamed (sigh) it is virtual blasphemy to ever question Corapi on anything or even hint at not being a fan of his.

I happen to think that Corapi was the last good Catholic personality on EWTN or Catholic media in general. I can't stand most of them. Corapi at least knows how to tell it like it is and deliver a meaningful, powerful sermon. His talks have benefited me a great deal personally. I am sad to hear him fall under a cloud.

I would say that we don't know the whole story with Father C. We don't know what happened behind closed doors. I do remember Father Ken Roberts (not sure how many people in here would remember him back in the late 80's early 90's). He was absolutely inspirational and amazing. He ended up being a pedophile molestor. I don't know what Corapi has really done but it's entirely possible that the braintrust powers-that-be want him eliminated. As a St. John Chrysostom once said, "the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." I don't trust these bishops as far as I could throw 'em. Corapi may well have done nothing wrong.....

 

[thereselittleflower]

And speaking of psychological delusions.....

Careful there . . . . mirrors are not always pleasant to look into . .

Again, you pontificate without a shred of knowledge. Do you know for a certain fact that he has not petitioned the Holy See for laicization, or whether he plans to do so? All we have is an announcement giving his present intention. Nothing more! And how would you know whether or not the Magisterium laicizes 'rarely?' Source?

He may have petitioned - he may not have. . no one has suggested that he hasn't but there is no evidence that he has. But his announcement he is leaving the priesthood before such is granted him by the Pope means he has already decided the outcome before the Church has. He announced he was leaving the priesthood which means returning to lay status, and no one can grant that to him but the Pope himself.

And that is granted rarely.

Yes, rarely. First, because the vast majority of Priests never seek such, and continue in their office of priest.

Second, because resinging from one's engaging in priestly ministry does not remove one from the priesthood. It removes their faculties only. If resignation is granted, one is released from their canonical faculties to minister and their obligation to undertake and faithfully fulfill a
duty entrusted to him by his Ordinary.

"a priest does not simply abandon the commitments made at
the time of ordination as if resigning from a job."
​

Additionally, a decision for such resignation is not entered into quickly:

"The decision to resign active priestly ministry usually follows only after a long period of reflection and discussion."
​

Even if their resignation is accepted, THIS does not remove them from the priesthood - one does not stop being a priest simply because their resignation has been accepted and their canonical faculties to minister, as well as their obligation to undertake and faithfully fulfill a duty entrusted to him by his Ordinary, have been relieved them, anymore than one stops being married.

That means that a defrocked priest must remain celibate for one. One is not dispensed from their vows.

To leave the priesthood itself, to be returned to lay status, would require such dispensation.

e) In order to change his canonical status from cleric to layperson with permission to marry, a resigned priest must petition the Holy Father for a dispensation (laicization) from the obligations of priesthood (canons 290-293).

Book II The People of God
Part I Church Personnel
§2000 RESIGNED PRIESTS
Powered by Google Docs
​

In the 1970's the Church was flooded with requests for priests and religious to be dispensed from their vows and allowed to marry, to be laicized, as the Church was aslo flooded with requests for annulments. And while, in that period it may have been much eaiser for a priest to receive such a dispensation, that ceased when Pope John Paul II took over.

In 1980 the giving of such dispensation drooped to near ZERO.

When John Paul II was elevated to the papacy in the Fall of 1978, he immediately changed the policy on priestly dispensations. I don't have the exact dates and numbers at hand, but I remember at the time that many of us were amazed that the hundreds of dispensations per year (and it may have been thousands) under John Paul II's predecessor, Paul VI, suddenly were reduced to almost zero. It was almost impossible to get a dispensation in 1980.

What was John Paul's intent? To restore the integrity of the priesthood and of marriage. These commitments are permanent. A priest may be removed from ministry, but he will not be given a dispensation to marry. Priests are to be made to take their commitments with utmost seriousness. They will be an example to married couples to take theirs seriously also.When a priest makes a promise of celibacy, it's forever; when a couple make vows of marriage, it's forever.

Father Joseph Fessio, S.J.
Let's Get the Story Straight: Catholic World Report
​

 

[thereselittleflower]

It's interesting how I sense a general anti-Corapi sentiment on this forum while on another Catholic online forum that shall go unnamed (sigh) it is virtual blasphemy to ever question Corapi on anything or even hint at not being a fan of his.

I happen to think that Corapi was the last good Catholic personality on EWTN or Catholic media in general. I can't stand most of them. Corapi at least knows how to tell it like it is and deliver a meaningful, powerful sermon. His talks have benefited me a great deal personally. I am sad to hear him fall under a cloud.

I would say that we don't know the whole story with Father C. We don't know what happened behind closed doors. I do remember Father Ken Roberts (not sure how many people in here would remember him back in the late 80's early 90's). He was absolutely inspirational and amazing. He ended up being a pedophile molestor. I don't know what Corapi has really done but it's entirely possible that the braintrust powers-that-be want him eliminated. As a St. John Chrysostom once said, "the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." I don't trust these bishops as far as I could throw 'em. Corapi may well have done nothing wrong.....

It's not anti Corapi sentiment at all, at least not on my part. I had admired the man, and gained much from his ministry at one point.

However, he has attacked the Church openly and publically, has made statements that are dubious in nature, and is acting contrary to all I have ever heard him teach.

Something is going on here, and given some of the things he has said, I believe it could very well be psychologica in nature, that his perception of reality is off base and he needs help and most definitely our prayers.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Wouldn't civil rights and cross examinations apply when you're been arrested? Not with-in a work place dispute? I know that some places of employment have future employees sign a notice that they may be fired for any reason at any time. They don't have any recourse regarding this and they don't have to be informed of why they were fired. I think civil rights apply to criminal cases, and from what I've read so far, Corapi hasn't been arrested for anything.
I'm not saying I don't sympathize with what Corapi claims is happening to him (being kept in the dark regarding these accusations). I think it would be frustrating beyond measure to be accused of something then not being told who is doing the accusing. But, he must of known how the Catholic church would handle such matters when he signed up to be a priest. I think he's acting in a rash manner. If he's innocent, the matter would of blown over at some point and he could of resumed his ministry. Now he's saying that certain Bishops are all wrong and the system is flawed. If he felt like this, why bring this issue up now? The system must of been flawed long before he got accused of anything. What happened to his "combat boots" ideology? It looks more like he folded his hand to me.
He says: "There is a general unwillingness or outright refusal by certain of the bishops to abide by applicable statutes of limitations, both in canon and civil law." Yet, he wants to be the "black" sheep dog who also does his own thing? Isn't that kind of what he feels the bishops are doing?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Corapi. I'm more confused and disappointed than anything. I prayed for him all during Lent that this situation would be handled fairly and he would be able to get back to his ministry soon.

He hasn't even moved up the chain of command above the Bishop and he has given up. He can appeal to the Arch Bishop and even to the Pope himself. There hasn't even enough time for that to have happened.


I prsonally know lay people who have successfully fought decisions by Bishops through the canonical courts . there is no reason, if his allegations are true, he could not do the same and he would know that better than a lay person would.

His actions and behavior are creating more scandal on top of any scandal caused by the allegations agaisnt him.

As I said, something is definitely off . and wrong with this picture. .

 

[St_Barnabus]

He may have petitioned - he may not have. . no one has suggested that he hasn't but there is no evidence that he has. But his announcement he is leaving the priesthood before such is granted him by the Pope means he has already decided the outcome before the Church has.

He announced he was leaving the priesthood which means returning to lay status, and no one can grant that to him but the Pope himself.

Are you suggesting that if the Pope does not grant this, he will be forced to stay in the priesthood? Nobody can force a priest to exercise his priesthood, Tlf. Get real.

Without a doubt, he would make the decision to leave prior to petitioning Rome. It is the same with couples who decide to divorce. The actual decree is not granted until months after forming the decision and subsequently petitioning the court.

I remind you that he is already suspended from active priestly ministry. This suspension may or may not keep him limbo indefinitely. He needs to get on with his life, and I would not blame him for asking for a final dispensation rather than live in limbo. Either that, or stay and fight, which ultimately is his right to decide - not yours. Nor is it your place to judge his motives or decisions in this matter.

This is like a pack of vultures picking the bones of a priest as if he was fair game for your judgments.

 

[isshinwhat]

All of the speculation, psychological analysis, canon lawyering, and armchair quarterbacking would be funny if it weren't so sad. The only thing anyone really knows is that none of us really know anything... Everything else is just uneducated opinion.

 

[isshinwhat]

Wouldn't civil rights and cross examinations apply when you're been arrested? Not with-in a work place dispute? I know that some places of employment have future employees sign a notice that they may be fired for any reason at any time. They don't have any recourse regarding this and they don't have to be informed of why they were fired. I think civil rights apply to criminal cases, and from what I've read so far, Corapi hasn't been arrested for anything.
I'm not saying I don't sympathize with what Corapi claims is happening to him (being kept in the dark regarding these accusations). I think it would be frustrating beyond measure to be accused of something then not being told who is doing the accusing. But, he must of known how the Catholic church would handle such matters when he signed up to be a priest. I think he's acting in a rash manner. If he's innocent, the matter would of blown over at some point and he could of resumed his ministry. Now he's saying that certain Bishops are all wrong and the system is flawed. If he felt like this, why bring this issue up now? The system must of been flawed long before he got accused of anything. What happened to his "combat boots" ideology? It looks more like he folded his hand to me.
He says: "There is a general unwillingness or outright refusal by certain of the bishops to abide by applicable statutes of limitations, both in canon and civil law." Yet, he wants to be the "black" sheep dog who also does his own thing? Isn't that kind of what he feels the bishops are doing?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Corapi. I'm more confused and disappointed than anything. I prayed for him all during Lent that this situation would be handled fairly and he would be able to get back to his ministry soon.

Hey, all I know is what he said. Beyond that, I really have no opinion. I have never heard anything unorthodox from the man's mouth. Given his 20 years of faithful service, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt out of charity unless I am shown otherwise, because as of right now, no one knows anything... It might make me feel good to jump his case because I would love him to have followed in Padre's Pio's footsteps and then had this all work itself out... But that doesn't change the fact that I don't know anything at all about the situation and really should just keep my mouth shut, pray hard, and practice a little bit of humility.

 

[BAFRIEND]

It's interesting how I sense a general anti-Corapi sentiment on this forum while on another Catholic online forum that shall go unnamed (sigh) it is virtual blasphemy to ever question Corapi on anything or even hint at not being a fan of his.

I happen to think that Corapi was the last good Catholic personality on EWTN or Catholic media in general. I can't stand most of them. Corapi at least knows how to tell it like it is and deliver a meaningful, powerful sermon. His talks have benefited me a great deal personally. I am sad to hear him fall under a cloud.

I would say that we don't know the whole story with Father C. We don't know what happened behind closed doors. I do remember Father Ken Roberts (not sure how many people in here would remember him back in the late 80's early 90's). He was absolutely inspirational and amazing. He ended up being a pedophile molestor. I don't know what Corapi has really done but it's entirely possible that the braintrust powers-that-be want him eliminated. As a St. John Chrysostom once said, "the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." I don't trust these bishops as far as I could throw 'em. Corapi may well have done nothing wrong.....

you know dude, at the other forum if you expess your personal opinion they throw you out

and this is not a Catholic online forum, it is the subforum of a christian Forum

 

[BAFRIEND]

All of the speculation, psychological analysis, canon lawyering, and armchair quarterbacking would be funny if it weren't so sad. The only thing anyone really knows is that none of us really know anything... Everything else is just uneducated opinion.

that is not true

we know that he was accused of misconduct involving staff abuse, drug abuse, sexual inuendo

we know that he is publically criticising his boss

we know he just resigned

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well you got me there, semantically. Yes, I know it's not a Catholic forum, but, as you say, a subforum. But my point is that the collective Catholic body at this forum has a different tone than that "other" forum. And yes, you're right, getting thrown out of there takes next to nothing. All you have to do is actually agree that there is good in Protestantism or agree with the Orthodox on something....

you know dude, at the other forum if you expess your personal opinion they throw you out

and this is not a Catholic online forum, it is the subforum of a christian Forum

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think the poster knows that and is saying we know nothing of the real details, the motivations of the accusor, and the validity of anything. As for having the stones to publically criticize his boss, I love that already! Wow! Some of these guys need public criticism.

that is not true

we know that he was accused of misconduct involving staff abuse, drug abuse, sexual inuendo

we know that he is publically criticising his boss

we know he just resigned

 

[isshinwhat]

In Defense of Father John Corapi | improperium Christi

He did not abandon the priesthood. He was unjustly suspended, indefinitely, with no just and reasonable process by which he might return to priestly ministry.

Some have accused him of abandoning the work of God, in order to go off on his own. This accusation is false and unjust. Fr. Corapi has for many years been doing the work of writing books and giving talks in order to preach and teach the Gospel. He is merely continuing this same work. And no Bishop or religious superior has told him, under obedience, not to continue to do so. So his continuation of this work is obviously not rebellion or an abandonment of the work of God.

This brings up a good point. Is it possible to not seek laicization, accept the suspension of his faculties, and continue to minister as John Corapi? Has he actually said anywhere that he is leaving the priesthood, or only that he is, "not going to be involved in public ministry as a priest any longer?"

Edit: This seems to be backed by this statement:

"The fact that he has chosen the nom de plume of The Black Sheep Dog is revealing: he cares for the flock of sheep he has been ministering to all these years, sheep that he well knows are of the Lord’s flock, not his.

As a suspended priest he cannot function publicly as a priest, but he can continue to evangelize as long as he does not present himself to the public as a priest.

http://abyssum.wordpress.com/2011/0...ther-corapis-announcement-yesterday/#comments

 

[isshinwhat]

Yep... I believe that is what is happening, so that means:

A) There is no disobedience to his Religious Superiors at the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity.

B) There is no pending laicization.

 

[Michie]

All of the speculation, psychological analysis, canon lawyering, and armchair quarterbacking would be funny if it weren't so sad. The only thing anyone really knows is that none of us really know anything... Everything else is just uneducated opinion.

Amen.

 

[isshinwhat]

Another interesting note, the working title of his autobiography, "The Black Sheepdog," has been discussed over the last five years, and has been trademarked for over a year now. It is not some new, off-the-deep-end revelation of his that marks a psychological fall...

 

[Michie]

This is an interesting article.

Father Corapi’s Bombshell

The popular speaker announces plans to leave the priesthood amid an investigation into allegations of misconduct, and his religious superior breaks his silence on the investigation. A Register news analysis.

Father John Corapi, the popular Catholic evangelist, announced on June 17 that he would leave the priesthood and begin a new endeavor outside Church control — called “Black Sheep Dog” — focused on a “broader” message and a global audience.

Three months have passed since Father Corapi, a priest of the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (SOLT), was removed from public ministry by his order while it investigated allegations of misconduct leveled by one of his former employees.
Posted on YouTube and on the website of Santa Cruz Media, the company led by Father Corapi that distributes his bestselling catechetical materials, the announcement shocked his many supporters, some of whom had vented their anger at the priest’s religious superiors and at EWTN and other media outlets, which suspended his programs after the allegations against him became public. The Register is a service if EWTN.

Raising more questions than it answered, the message did not state the precise reason why Father Corapi chose to resign from the priesthood, rather than waiting for the outcome of SOLT’s investigation of the alleged misconduct.

However, Father Gerard Sheehan, regional priest-servant of SOLT and Father Corapi’s religious superior in the U.S., confirmed June 19 that the order’s investigation faced complications created by a civil suit filed by Father Corapi against the former employee who had accused him of sexual misconduct.

“When she left the company, she signed a contract that she would not reveal anything that happened to her while she was at Santa Cruz Media. Father Corapi paid her for this. Father was suing her for a breach of contract,” said Father Sheehan, though he did not specify why Father Corapi had initiated the non-disclosure agreement.

The civil suit against the former employee created a problem for SOLT investigators.
“In canon law, there can’t be any pressure on witnesses; they have to be completely free to speak. The investigation was compromised because of the pressure on the witnesses. There were other witnesses that also had signed non-disclosure agreements,” said Father Sheehan.

“The canon lawyers were in a difficult situation, and Father does have his civil rights and he decided to follow his legal counsel, which he had a right to do,” he said. “We tried to continue the investigation without speaking to the principal witnesses.”

The investigation was halted after Father Corapi “sent us a letter resigning from active ministry and religious life. I have written him a letter asking him to confirm that decision. If so, we will help him with this process of leaving religious life,” said Father Sheehan.

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/father-corapis-bombshell/#ixzz1PmDGoQr5

 

[Michie]

This is an interesting article.

Father Corapi’s Bombshell

The popular speaker announces plans to leave the priesthood amid an investigation into allegations of misconduct, and his religious superior breaks his silence on the investigation. A Register news analysis.

Father John Corapi, the popular Catholic evangelist, announced on June 17 that he would leave the priesthood and begin a new endeavor outside Church control — called “Black Sheep Dog” — focused on a “broader” message and a global audience.

Three months have passed since Father Corapi, a priest of the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (SOLT), was removed from public ministry by his order while it investigated allegations of misconduct leveled by one of his former employees.

Posted on YouTube and on the website of Santa Cruz Media, the company led by Father Corapi that distributes his bestselling catechetical materials, the announcement shocked his many supporters, some of whom had vented their anger at the priest’s religious superiors and at EWTN and other media outlets, which suspended his programs after the allegations against him became public. The Register is a service if EWTN.

Raising more questions than it answered, the message did not state the precise reason why Father Corapi chose to resign from the priesthood, rather than waiting for the outcome of SOLT’s investigation of the alleged misconduct.

However, Father Gerard Sheehan, regional priest-servant of SOLT and Father Corapi’s religious superior in the U.S., confirmed June 19 that the order’s investigation faced complications created by a civil suit filed by Father Corapi against the former employee who had accused him of sexual misconduct.

“When she left the company, she signed a contract that she would not reveal anything that happened to her while she was at Santa Cruz Media. Father Corapi paid her for this. Father was suing her for a breach of contract,” said Father Sheehan, though he did not specify why Father Corapi had initiated the non-disclosure agreement.

The civil suit against the former employee created a problem for SOLT investigators.
“In canon law, there can’t be any pressure on witnesses; they have to be completely free to speak. The investigation was compromised because of the pressure on the witnesses. There were other witnesses that also had signed non-disclosure agreements,” said Father Sheehan.

“The canon lawyers were in a difficult situation, and Father does have his civil rights and he decided to follow his legal counsel, which he had a right to do,” he said. “We tried to continue the investigation without speaking to the principal witnesses.”

The investigation was halted after Father Corapi “sent us a letter resigning from active ministry and religious life. I have written him a letter asking him to confirm that decision. If so, we will help him with this process of leaving religious life,” said Father Sheehan.

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/father-corapis-bombshell/#ixzz1PmDGoQr5

 

[isshinwhat]

Well that clarifies the sticking point.