Unsure of Where I Belong

[HoneyBee]

2018 EDIT: I no longer hold the views that I wrote in this thread. If you'd like an updated version of where I'm at in my faith journey, look at my "Update on Where I've Been" thread. Thank you!

Hello everyone,

To start this off, I come from a muslim background. I was raised strictly muslim for about 18 years before moving to the house of a Catholic family where I am now living and exploring my faith. I'm no longer muslim, but instead choose the label of "undecided/seeking". I have a great love for God and all that he encompasses, but I'm not sure exactly where I am supposed to be.

I've looked at Methodist Church and a Reform Synagogue so far, along with other non-abrahamic schools of thought, and I think each practice is absolutely lovely in its own right... however, my problem lies with a conflict of ideas swirling around in my head.

My problem is that I love Judaism's teachings... but I also love the teachings of Christianity. And when it comes to Christianity, I think Jesus was pretty great, but I don't exactly consider him God. This is likely due to my background, but I look at Jesus as a philosopher/prophet from God. And when it comes to his teachings, I like the way Methodists look at him best, because you guys stress service (like Jesus did) and you guys are more comfortable with the LGBT community (something that is essential, no matter where I go).

So I guess my question is: Can a girl be Christian if she follows Jesus's teachings, but doesn't see Jesus as the Messiah or the Son of God, but instead just as a prophet or philosopher? I hope I'm not coming off as offensive when I say that, but it's something I need to ask.

 

[-57]

Hello everyone,

To start this off, I come from a muslim background. I was raised strictly muslim for about 18 years before moving to the house of a Catholic family where I am now living and exploring my faith. I'm no longer muslim, but instead choose the label of "undecided/seeking". I have a great love for God and all that he encompasses, but I'm not sure exactly where I am supposed to be.

I've looked at Methodist Church and a Reform Synagogue so far, along with other non-abrahamic schools of thought, and I think each practice is absolutely lovely in its own right... however, my problem lies with a conflict of ideas swirling around in my head.

My problem is that I love Judaism's teachings... but I also love the teachings of Christianity. And when it comes to Christianity, I think Jesus was pretty great, but I don't exactly consider him God. This is likely due to my background, but I look at Jesus as a philosopher/prophet from God. And when it comes to his teachings, I like the way Methodists look at him best, because you guys stress service (like Jesus did) and you guys are more comfortable with the LGBT community (something that is essential, no matter where I go).

So I guess my question is: Can a girl be Christian if she follows Jesus's teachings, but doesn't see Jesus as the Messiah or the Son of God, but instead just as a prophet or philosopher? I hope I'm not coming off as offensive when I say that, but it's something I need to ask.

The New Testament teaches Jesus is God. Jesus is the Messiah. If you remove the divine nature from Jesus then you follow a different Jesus....a "Jesus" void of salvation.

 

[archer75]

Certainly many people call themselves Christians who believe something along the lines of what you said. They aren't considered Christians for identification purposes on this board, but that's another matter.

Keep reading and talking to people is my advice.

 

[Edmond Smith]

Hello everyone,

To start this off, I come from a muslim background. I was raised strictly muslim for about 18 years before moving to the house of a Catholic family where I am now living and exploring my faith. I'm no longer muslim, but instead choose the label of "undecided/seeking". I have a great love for God and all that he encompasses, but I'm not sure exactly where I am supposed to be.

I've looked at Methodist Church and a Reform Synagogue so far, along with other non-abrahamic schools of thought, and I think each practice is absolutely lovely in its own right... however, my problem lies with a conflict of ideas swirling around in my head.

My problem is that I love Judaism's teachings... but I also love the teachings of Christianity. And when it comes to Christianity, I think Jesus was pretty great, but I don't exactly consider him God. This is likely due to my background, but I look at Jesus as a philosopher/prophet from God. And when it comes to his teachings, I like the way Methodists look at him best, because you guys stress service (like Jesus did) and you guys are more comfortable with the LGBT community (something that is essential, no matter where I go).

So I guess my question is: Can a girl be Christian if she follows Jesus's teachings, but doesn't see Jesus as the Messiah or the Son of God, but instead just as a prophet or philosopher? I hope I'm not coming off as offensive when I say that, but it's something I need to ask.

If Jesus isn't the Messiah or the Son of God, How then would you be saved to call yourself a Christian? Without Christ, you have no salvation.

 

[HoneyBee]

The New Testament teaches Jesus is God. Jesus is the Messiah. If you remove the divine nature from Jesus then you follow a different Jesus....a "Jesus" void of salvation.

So that would mean I wouldn't be a Christian at all, but rather just someone following Christian teachings?

 

[HoneyBee]

If Jesus isn't the Messiah or the Son of God, How then would you be saved to call yourself a Christian? Without Christ, you have no salvation.

I guess that makes sense... I just consider God as being my salvation, not Jesus. Gosh, I hope I'm not ruffling anyone's feathers in a bad way. Totally not what I'm aiming to do.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hello everyone,

To start this off, I come from a muslim background. I was raised strictly muslim for about 18 years before moving to the house of a Catholic family where I am now living and exploring my faith. I'm no longer muslim, but instead choose the label of "undecided/seeking". I have a great love for God and all that he encompasses, but I'm not sure exactly where I am supposed to be.

I've looked at Methodist Church and a Reform Synagogue so far, along with other non-abrahamic schools of thought, and I think each practice is absolutely lovely in its own right... however, my problem lies with a conflict of ideas swirling around in my head.

My problem is that I love Judaism's teachings... but I also love the teachings of Christianity. And when it comes to Christianity, I think Jesus was pretty great, but I don't exactly consider him God. This is likely due to my background, but I look at Jesus as a philosopher/prophet from God. And when it comes to his teachings, I like the way Methodists look at him best, because you guys stress service (like Jesus did) and you guys are more comfortable with the LGBT community (something that is essential, no matter where I go).

So I guess my question is: Can a girl be Christian if she follows Jesus's teachings, but doesn't see Jesus as the Messiah or the Son of God, but instead just as a prophet or philosopher? I hope I'm not coming off as offensive when I say that, but it's something I need to ask.

Hello SFG, welcome to CF! Since I'm not Methodist, but more generally 'Christian,' I'll not prolong my presence in this particular forum. But, if you are going to evaluate and consider Christian faith, in whatever denominational guise, whether Methodist, Catholic, or any other mode of Christian thought, you'll have to come to the understanding that there are just some things involving Christian truth that aren't going to allow us to find total comfort. Thus, when Jesus tells us to "take up our Cross daily," He means that in some ways, we will have to be willing to follow Him by "dying" to various sinful proclivities and follow the way of righteousness, even if it is uncomfortable.

Again, welcome to CF! I hope you'll eventually find that Jesus Christ is who He says He is--the Son of God, the Messiah, our Lord and Savior.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[-57]

So that would mean I wouldn't be a Christian at all, but rather just someone following Christian teachings?

Lets say you might be following "some" of Christian teachings. Following Christian teachings contains understanding Jesus is God come in the flesh...and...is also the Messiah.
It was Jesus Christ who hung on the cross and died. It was Jesus Christ who rose from the dead.

It is Jesus Christ who forgives you of your sins.

 

[archer75]

I'm not Methodist either, but just want to suggest you might try posting an intro thread in the Introductions section, or elae something in the Looking for a Church section. Lots of friendly people on this board.

 

[Edmond Smith]

I guess that makes sense... I just consider God as being my salvation, not Jesus. Gosh, I hope I'm not ruffling anyone's feathers in a bad way. Totally not what I'm aiming to do.

Without Christ, you would have to face the wrath of God, alone.
You would have to live a perfect and sinless life, but you'd still would fail.
Why? Because unlike Christ, you and I are born in sin. We are not good people, we are not righteous, nor do we seek after righteousness, while living in sin. We are enemies of God, while in sin.
Because of Sin, and without Christ, you would have to be punished for your sins. Because God isn't just a good God, He is also a righteous and just God. You wouldn't think him to be a good God, if he just let murderers, rapist or thieves go unpunished forever would you? No. That's why we need Christ. He while we are yet in sin, He came to this earth, in the form of a man. To take your and mine sins to the cross and met with full force the wrath of God upon that cross, for us. So we wouldn't have to.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Hello everyone,

To start this off, I come from a muslim background. I was raised strictly muslim for about 18 years before moving to the house of a Catholic family where I am now living and exploring my faith. I'm no longer muslim, but instead choose the label of "undecided/seeking". I have a great love for God and all that he encompasses, but I'm not sure exactly where I am supposed to be.

I've looked at Methodist Church and a Reform Synagogue so far, along with other non-abrahamic schools of thought, and I think each practice is absolutely lovely in its own right... however, my problem lies with a conflict of ideas swirling around in my head.

My problem is that I love Judaism's teachings... but I also love the teachings of Christianity. And when it comes to Christianity, I think Jesus was pretty great, but I don't exactly consider him God. This is likely due to my background, but I look at Jesus as a philosopher/prophet from God. And when it comes to his teachings, I like the way Methodists look at him best, because you guys stress service (like Jesus did) and you guys are more comfortable with the LGBT community (something that is essential, no matter where I go).

So I guess my question is: Can a girl be Christian if she follows Jesus's teachings, but doesn't see Jesus as the Messiah or the Son of God, but instead just as a prophet or philosopher? I hope I'm not coming off as offensive when I say that, but it's something I need to ask.

i'm not methodist but I feel this isn't' just specific to methodist.. and I know that many would make a similar stance as me when I say no. Most wouldn't believe he's a philosopher/prophet but above that in some way.

John 14:6King James Version (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

COmment: A philosopher based off the little I learned in the classes I took is a seeker of truth, he tends to question anything. Yet JESUS is defined as the Truth/word of God himself. So to call JESUS a philosopher wouldn't be christian like because it would suggest he wasn't truth himself, but rather a seeker of truth. He wasn't the word in the flesh as the bible suggest but rather a seeker of the word. So yeah to believe he's just some man seeking truth isn't a christian belief and thus yeah can't be a christian with that belief. You don't believe he offers salvation or that he is mighty and above but rather he was another Paul of sorts but more philosophical in nature, very very very smart but unlike Paul a seeker of truth rather then a preacher/writer of it. So Paul>JESUS

Acts 4:12King James Version (KJV)
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Comment: here we see his name is above any philosopher or king or whatever, he's above man.



1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


Comment: He's the son of God... and christians believe this in some form or fashion so yes would be against christianity to believe other wise, would be more closer to Muslim faith. In fact tbh your view puts JESUS in a even lesser light then the muslim view does. They at least see him as a major prophet like Moses, but diminishing him to a philosopher lowers him even more as a figure. PRophets are able to see the future and present it, and they know the word of God, philosophers question God, life, truth, hate, evil, good, morals etc. Prophets declare it though, they know what to say, they have a set view.



Romans 8:9

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

King James Version (KJV)



Comments: I guess what i'm suggesting is that there's a reason we strive to be christ like because we believe he's perfect, which is a trait coming from a guy who took a philosophy and ethics course not long ago, I can't find with philosophers. He's also considered the son of God... and the one who has all power in his hand, philosophers don't have that power.

 

[musicalpilgrim]

Hi searching for God,

Welcome to the Forum, in Jesus name, it is a great place to be,
I spend a lot of time with the Pentecostals, a sub forum
Pentecostal/Assemblies of God

May the Lord bless you and make himself real to you,
May you feel his presence with you today, in Jesus name

 

[hedrick]

I note that the responses you’ve gotten so far haven’t been from Methodists. The Methodist church is one of the most theologically tolerant churches out there, although the degree of toleration varies from region to region.

My feeling is that it’s too early for you to worry about the specifics of your theology. Particularly coming from a Muslim background, you may not appreciate exactly what terms like Son of God mean for Christians, particularly in the more liberal traditions such as the Methodists. My feeling would be that if you’re willing to consider that God might have been uniquely present through Christ, it’s worth exploring a bit more what that might mean to you. If not, you might want to consider one of the groups such as the Unitarians or Quakers. The Quakers (a.k.a. Society of Friends) have much of the same emphases you refer to, but are not as committed to specific doctrines about Christ. (At least this is true of traditional Quakers. There are evangelical Quakers who are more doctrinal. Which type you're likely to encounter depends upon the where you are.)

 

[musicalpilgrim]

I guess that makes sense... I just consider God as being my salvation, not Jesus. Gosh, I hope I'm not ruffling anyone's feathers in a bad way. Totally to not what I'm aiming to do.

I have been to many churches as a musician, now at a Spirit filled 'Church of England' now retired from the music ministry. On this forum I have Pentecostal friends. Because of my experience of various denominations, the most important thing to do is to seek the truth about Jesus.

My own experience is that it is necessary to base my belief on who Jesus is, and that is, I feel, your aim.
I agree with Paul when he writes to Timothy in
2 Timothy 1: 12a 'I know whom I have believed'

A very good, thought provoking book, that I have just read is ...Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus...by Nabeel Qureshi. Amazon will have it. It describes the dramatic journey of the writer from Islam to Christianity. I highly recommend it.

 

[circuitrider]

OK, I'm a Methodist.

You can of course choose to believe whatever you feel led to believe.

As said above, you may want to do more exploring of different churches before you settle on one.

But, just so you know, if you were to become a Methodist, while we are very tolerant of many differences, when you join a Methodist Church you take the following baptismal vows. (Baptism is required for membership if you've not been previously baptized in a Christian church.)

1. Do you renounce the spiritual forces of wickedness, reject the evil powers of this world, and repent of your sin?

2. Do you accept the freedom and power God gives you to resist evil, injustice, and oppression in whatever forms they present themselves?

3. Do you confess Jesus Christ as your Savior, put your whole trust in his grace, and promise to serve him as your Lord, in union with the Church which Christ has opened to people of all ages, nations, and races?

As members of Christ’s universal Church, will you be loyal to Christ through The United Methodist Church, and do all in your power to strengthen its ministries? [Membership Vows for the UMC]

Will you participate in the ministries of this church with your prayers, your presence, your gifts, your service, and your witness? [Membership Vows for the local congregation]


So to be a United Methodist you are required to believe some things you may not yet be ready to believe.

 

[musicalpilgrim]

I know nothing except Christ crucified...no rules...no requirements...just to know the person

 

[Rawtheran]

I guess that makes sense... I just consider God as being my salvation, not Jesus. Gosh, I hope I'm not ruffling anyone's feathers in a bad way. Totally not what I'm aiming to do.

You say that you consider God to be your salvation, but what exactly do you believe God has saved you from? You are right in the fact that Jesus was a philosopher, a rabbi, a prophet, a healer, etc. but he is also much more. As a teacher Jesus taught that he was the way, the truth, and the life. As a Philosopher he taught that no man or woman can earn their way into Heaven or is even worthy to be in the presence of God. As God, Jesus died a painful death on the cross, and with the shedding of his blood he completely wiped away sin. Since no one can go to Heaven because of sin and it is impossible to earn your way into Heaven it is up to the individual person to accept Jesus into their heart, make him Lord, and allow his blood to wash away their sin and then they become a completely different person who is never the same again. This message right here is what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and become a Christian. Anything less is a lie that comes from the pits of hell.

 

[GraceSeeker]

I, too, am a United Methodist, have been all of my life and like Circuit Rider, above, I am also a pastor.

Not surprisingly, I pretty much agree with Circuit Rider's answer to your question. You can believe whatever you want and be active in a United Methodist Church. We welcome you with open arms and don't seek to have you conform to our doctrine simply to continue your spiritual journey among us. If you seek to actually officially join the United Methodist Church, then we are going to asking some questions (again, provided by Circuit Rider, above) which you will want to consider whether or not you can affirm. If you can affirm them, then certainly you should consider finding a local congregation who can walk with you in your personal spiritual journey.

Methodism, more than most Christian denominations, is more concerned with the pragmatics of how we walk with God, the actual practice of loving God and loving neighbor, than with parsing all of the details about God's nature and trying to define who God is to the nth detail. (Not that there aren't plenty of people within Methodist churches and even this board who wouldn't have those interests. Including myself from time to time.) This leads us being considered pluralistic. Some see that as a strength, some as a weakness of our church. Whichever is up to you, but it does mean that we are a pretty tolerant bunch of a wide range of diverse theologies that, for the most part, all somehow fit together under the same roof. (Though, if you read other threads you will see that there are some pretty big leaks sprung over some of the LGBTQ issues that sound like are important to you.)

This diversity would mean that whether you join or not there are likely to be some UMC congregations where you would feel like it fit you like a glove, and others where it would fit like a left shoe on a right foot. Most, I would hope, would be happy to accept you and walk with you, in whatever and however you needed to aid you in your own personal discovery of the place and role of God in your life and celebrate with you in those discoveries along the way. I can't imagine one in which Jesus is NOT proclaimed as Lord, Messiah and Savior -- and, yes, also the incarnation of God, the very manifestation of God's Word, come to dwell among us and reconcile the world to himself. But, I also can't imagine one in which you would be rejected as a person if you couldn't make those same proclamations. If they don't love you and walk with you regardless, then they aren't behaving like true Methodists.

 

[tansy]

The thing is that,being a Christian isn't a case of following certain rules. It's a case of following Jesus. And even more than that, when you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, then the Holy Spirit comes to live in you and helps to transform you as you allow Him to. Because we simply cannot, however hard we try, live a perfectly good, pure and wise life without the indwelling power of the Spirit. Even then, none of us are perfect in this life.
I hope you find the answers you're looking for

 

[Dave-W]

My problem is that I love Judaism's teachings... but I also love the teachings of Christianity.

Perhaps you should check out Messianic Judaism. It is kinda the best of both communities.